Phys Init/Defensive Skill FAQ
After answering these questions many, many times in different posts i have decided to stick as much as i know in one thread and let that serve as a guide. Hopefully some wise admin will make this sticky so i dont have to bump it all the time as well
1. Do our fists use Phys Init now?
A: Yes they do.
2: What about weapons? Phys or melee init?
A: MA weapons (which are defined as those that use MA skill as 66% of the equip req) all use phys init now as well. Only MA weapons now are able to be dual-wielded with fists (that is, we punch and use the the weapon at the same time). All other weapons do not allow punching now. Also, each weapon now has its own requirement for how much MA skill you need to have in order to punch and atk with the weapon. If you do not have this skill, then you will only use the weapon, you will no longer punch with it equipped. This figure is currently not shown on the MA weapon descriptions except for the new West Wind Katana. I will try and post these figures if/when i find them. ***Update - Jayde's DB now lists the "MA req for multi wield" req on the ql's of MA weaps listed. If your weapon is close to any of those listed, check out the database and guestimate how much you need***
3. How does Phys Init affect our fist speed? What about MA weapon speed?
A: Phys init first lowers the base fist speed. With 150 phys init your fist speed lowers from the base 1.25s/1.25s to the absolute minimum speed for any attack in the game (1s/1s). This is the amount of init you need to set your aggro bar at the "neutral" setting and hit at full speed - 87.5% aggresive (see more on the aggro bar in question #5).
The exact formula for how init affects both fist and weapon speed is:
600 phys init = weapon speed lowered by 1s/2s*
Remember that the minimum is 1s/1s for any weapon. So lets say i am using one of the new claws. The base speed is 1.2s/2s. With 300 phys init you lower the atk by .5 secs (but it stops at 1s remember) and the recharge by 1s so the claw now hits at a rate of 1s/1s.
* - FC recently fixed recharge so that all skill points in weapon inits affect recharge according to the above formula. However, FC has now reduced the effectiveness of weapon init points above 1200. Every point above 1200 now is only 33% effective, meaning you need 3 times the amount of init once you are over 1200 total to retain the same results.
4. Why do i want to lower the speeds all to 1s/1s?
A: You want the weapon you are using to match the speed of your fists so that you alternate (fist,claw,fist,claw,etc.) when attacking. When you have a 1s/1s speed with your fists, you can punch 26 times in 1 minute. If you add an MA weap to that which also has a 1s/1s speed, you now attack 40 times per minute - 20 fist attacks and 20 weapon attacks. Now almost always your fist attacks will be more damaging. While you do lose 6 fists attacks when wielding an MA weap this way, you gain 20 attacks with your weapon! If you have a good weapon for your level, you will certainly do more damage total than if you were to go with just fists and MA special attacks.
If you would like to dual wield MA weaps, you are in fact triple wielding, for you will still be hitting with your fists. However even with 3 attack sources the maximum number of attacks per minute remains 40. So if all 3 of your attacks are at max speed (1s/1s) you will roughly have 13 fist atks, 13 weap1 atks, and 13 weap2 atks per minute. So you lose about 7 more fist attacks by triple wielding.
**UPDATE**
ok, once again i have pulled out my stopwatch and run a number of tests since 14.4 hit to see if there is a change in atks per minute. the answer is. . .yes and no. bascially the main thing I have discovered is that there are 2 standards to base your numbers on - tests in PvP and tests in PvM. (yes, the results are different!) i'll just post the results here and update them in my phys init FAQ as well. . .
(All tests are with fists/MA weaps that are hitting at full speed - 1s/1s. Also, i used all of the following MA weaps and saw no difference in speeds between any of them as long as they all had the appropriate amount of phys init to have them hit at full speed - Parry stick, Claw, Wall Blade, Taichi, Crescent, & my WW katana for the fists + 1 weap only)
PvP
Fists only - 26 atks/min
Fists + 1 weap - 36 atks/min
Fists + 2 weaps - 40 atks/min
PvM
Fists only - 26 atks/min
Fists + 1 weap - 34 atks/min
Fists + 2 weaps - 37 atks/min
So for those that argued that you cannot get 40 atks per minute against mobs, you were right! All my previous testing was against fellow players that were even lvl with me, not on mobs. This recent batch however I chose the training ground guide as a target since i was now lvl 200, same as her, and thus made the discovery. The only real big change if you discount the 2 various settings is the total number of attacks for 1 weapon and 2 weapons not being the same. I simply do not have an explaination for why this differs now, but it does. So now I can see the reasoning for dual wielding weapons for extra attacks, but still hold to my position that fist damage is your greatest damage dealer. Also 1 weapon is a lot easier to swap in and out as well if you plan on using an MA special attack like BwT at the beginning of your battle But either way seems viable (i am on a dual ql200 parry stick kick currently )
** END UPDATE **
5. So why do i need more phys init than what my fists and/or MA weapon requires to hit at full speed?
A: Having more than 150 phys init allows you to lower your agg/def bar setting from the neutral position down towards defensive while maintaining the same 1s/1s max fist/weapon speed. Here are the specifics on the aggro bar as best as I can figure currently-
-the "neutral" spot on the aggro bar is 87.5% aggressive.
-for every 1/8 of the aggro bar, the speed is affected by .25/.25. So if you place the bar at full aggresive, you get a -.25/-.25 speed bonus for your weapon. This explains why MA fists (base 1.25/1.25) hit full speed at lvl 1 and no init, but startup weapons such as the trader shottie or the one i used - enf bat (1/1.5) do not hit full speed at full agg. (the speed max for any weapon is 1/1, so the bonus .25 to the atk speed does nothing).
-at base speed setting (87.5%) both of these weapons have the same overall speed (2.5s). at full def, they still did - both timed 15 cycles at 90s, or an overall speed of 6s (3s/3s for the MA, 2.75s/3.25s for the enf). again, according to this set-up, from 87.5% agg to full def will add 1.75/1.75 to your atk/rchg time.
6. Why do i want to lower my agg/def setting anyway?
A: While the exact figures are not known, lowering the bar setting does in fact increase your chances of having your defensive skills work. While it may not make a world of difference, it is noticable by those of us who have tried it. Also, FC has stated in our "Top 10 MA Questions Answered" thread that the defensive skills will be looked at in an upcoming patch and will probably be tweaked, meaning taking advantage of your defensive capabilities will be an even greater strategy.
7. Doesn't lowering the agg/def bar increase my nano times?
A: Yes it does, so you will need to increase your Nano Init as well to compensate. It is a yucky dark blue skill, yes, but the good thing is that you do not have to raise it nearly as much as your phys init. From my testing i can insta-cast heals (our most important NF when it comes to speed) at full defensive setting with around 600 nano init. So using that as a guide, adjust your amount of nano init slowly over time as you drop your bar setting toward defensive (i.e. if you fight at 50% aggresive, around 300 nano init, for 75% aggresive 150, etc.) One word on nano init - unlike the other inits, it does not affect recharge times, so no matter how much you have invested and what setting you fight at, the recharge will always remain the same.
*I will be testing nano init next, so updates to come soon*
8. So what defensive skills do i want to work on?
A: MA's have green skills for all 3 evades. Unless you PvP a lot, you will only see 2 of the 3 attacks for the most part that your evades check against - melee and ranged. So Evade Close Combat and Dodge Ranged are two skills you want to invest in heavily. Duck Explosions is a defensive check against only a select few weapon types used (shotguns, enf beams, etc.) and only one human mob class you meet in missions uses this type of attack (traders). Therefore there is not as much importance placed on this evade in PvM.
Evades help in 2 ways - (1) they allow you to actually not be hit by an attack. . . and (2) they decrease the chance that you will be critted by that type of attack. At lower levels you can certainly see both of these working. At the higher levels you are usually fighting mobs with much higher attack ratings, so you will not actually evade attacks that often, but you will still see the crit protection vs. someone who does not invest in evades. So my advice - Max evade and dodge along with your phys init. Remember as you increase your phys init you will be able to slide your bar setting down toward defensive and will take even more advantage of your high evade skill. And also keep in mind these skills will be tweaked by FC some day, so it is truly an investment in the future!
9. What about Parry/Riposte? Are they important too?
A: Yes Parry should be looked at as an important skill as well. Parry by itself though is not tied into the agg/def bar calculations, and is thusly solely dependant upon the amount of skill you have. Parry has 3 uses for us MA's - (1) its own intrensic ability to stop melee attacks (so with the melee evade you have 2 defensive checks against this sort of attack) (2) Deflection Shields use parry as a requirement - a ql100 shield adds about 2000 to the specific AC it works for for about 30 secs. This is very good for when you are aggroed by that nasty red mob that hits you for way above min dmg
Riposte is currently not working as well as it was designed to. There is a tool that uses Riposte as a req (shielding projectors) but they are pretty pathetic as well. A ql 133 advanced shielding projector only creates a 49 pt melee dmg shield for around 20 seconds, and locks the riposte skill for 10 minutes. FC has stated that they are considering completely reworking the skill during the skill patch, perhaps making it an inherent skill that gives you a free attack whenever it successfully checks against an incoming melee attack!
10. What is this about the "Martial Arts Item" and my fists having increased speed with higher MA skill amounts?
A: This is an issue that I have been asking about for some time through my test connections but have not received a response on yet. Basically the way our fist speed/dmg is calculated is through what is called the "Martial Arts Item." This item can be found in the various databases on the internet. One thing that I have established is that the ql of the item equates to 2 points of MA skill. This means the ql500 Martial Arts Item would be equal to 1000 MA skill.
The problem with this item is that in the databases that show more info, the ql500 item has a listed atk/recharge time of 1.45/1.45, instead of the typical 1.25/1.25 our fists begin with. I have tested to see if this increase in atk/rchg is actually reflected in-game, and unfortunately it isThis means that your fists actually grow in time the more MA skill you have. Also, for those wishing to fight at full defensive at the higher levels, this change basically means that it is impossible to have fists hit at full speed at 0% aggresive. Here is the breakdown:
MA 1000 = fist speed 1.45/1.45 + 1.75/1.75 for full def = 3.2/3.2
***Update - FC confirmed more or less that this increase in atk/rchg is intended, so we will have to live with it for now
That is enough for now
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