Note from Game Director: Removing Ingots

[LordLucan]

That's the whole point of removing ingots. To make the farmers invisible. FC are not doing this to try and stop ebayers. They realise it's impossible to do this, and I can give you a cast-iron guarantee there will be ebayers selling AO credits in 6 months. The price may change, little else will.

Why I think this has been done is to stop the daily proliferation of posts along the lines of: "I hate Ely" "Why are lvl 210+ chars killing Ely hecks 24/7" "Trained in Ely Hell again" "The thought of going to Ely makes me want to kill baby kittens"

Basically, ingots destroyed the enjoyment of the most popular part of a whole SL zone for a lot of people.

[Escritores]

The only thing i hope that will drop in price are SL nanos... When SL came out FC justified the SL nano prices with ingots and now that they've been nerfed in value and now completely gone there's still no lower prices here which i find rather wrong... Not that there isn't easier ways to make the creds but as it was justified by ingots it should be fixed with ingots, would only make sense call it a principle (spell??) ... AI cities are RK related imo not SL related the prices where allready lowered so i don't see a further need for this...

[Genetic]

I think the farmers will do anything to keep the money income. They will destroy the game by doing other various actions and the income will always be there. In fact the next option will be to blitz a special nano wich am not to mention here but then the farmers will work like undercover becuse it is worth almost the same as platinum ingots when sold to shops. That will not cause the economic situasjon any better. Only more invisible. * Vaati *

The thing is, those farmers farm ingots without playing, they're using a bot to let the character stand in the spots, automatically kill and loot for them.

Blitzing isnt the same, afaik no one is able to make a "blitzbot' that will automatically make a character make his way to the mission, run to the item, pick it up, then run to next mission or roll a new one

So they actually have to make the same effort as the other players that has been making money that way (like me).

And as repaste of a post I made in the other thread,
If you are president of a small org with a group of "friends", WAKE UP. Just because you're the president you dont have to pay for the city yourself.
If you are whining about your upkeep it means you paid for the city alone that means you are in other words a city farmer with some "friends" members inside to cover it up.

Okay lets say your org have 5 people

Each of you roll 6 anima missions every day. Rolling + blitzing will take 30 minutes.
Animas exist in various QL but for this example I use
QL 212 Anima of Pure Malevolance -> with around 800 Computer Literacy: Sells for: 300,000cr

5x6x300,000=9,000,000

9m x 30 days = 270m

Dont tell me thats not enough for your city. Just takes 30 mins a day from 5 members. If you have bigger city you should have even more members...

If your "friends" org members dont want to do this, then I say you all don't deserve a city.

[wethepeople]

I dont like beggers. Often I get asked that infamous "crdz plz" just because I am high level. I'll help with tradeskilling, educating, and even do some farming from time to time, but I will never give away credits just because someone is too lazy to roll a mission.

I get insulted for this on occation, but I remember when I was just a n00b, and I had to make my way. It made the game enjoyable, and I learned a lot in doing so. If I started this game at maxlevel, with maxcash, I'd have learned nothing and been bored out of my mind in a month or 2.

On topic, I think its is a really good thing. Personally, I'd have loved to see Ingots stay in the game, just give hecklers a 99% chance to resist AoE effects Makes people actually WORK for their loot... I dont think Ingots would be so overpowering if you had to work for them, its mainly been those who farm them on a large scale thats been causing the problem.

Also, on a related note, giving hecklers AoE resistance would also solve that issue of people who level off of kiters. Nothing worse than seeing 5 lazy bumps on the top of a hill, just trying to get from 110 to 170 while they are asleep.

God I couldnt Agree More , Ive been Playing this game since launch i remember getting loot in missions and selling to vendors and got all happy when I came back from borgs with 100k in loot i was soo happy ... ahhhh the memories.... aye even if there was an AoE resist on the hecks , the farmers of 210 + keepers , sols , fixers , shades , advys , engis would still be there farming hehe , but yeah as for the beggers i couldnt agree more ... I get asked about 20x a day , your uber why cant you give me 100k plz ? youve got Billionz of creds im sure. well .. heh. didnt have a bil when he asked me but yeah i agree with getting offended i tell them go loot corpses and roll missions and kill dynas like i did when i was a n00b like you. but yeah ... the fr00b society is a good thing and a bad thing it has inflated lag , ruined alot of the SL. ppl comming in from the depths of nowhere training like no tommarow , I remember when you could go to Ely hecks and there was rarely ever a train about 4 months after the launch of SL now you have these peeps from EQ and WoW that think that theyre gods of the MMOs. but anyways... nothing against the fr00bs ive actually met a few nice ones. but besides them lagging the vets server also on the kiting issue. aye I cant stand ebayers and kite teams , my 2 pet pieves in the game ppl that cant " earn " theyre own. really are noobs. thats why you see ppl 205 + still in half mish armor or half T1/mish armor. lol they get into kite teams at 120 and kite theyre way to 170 get an org to get em ado key and they dont know what todo .. anyways about the ingot removal ... well ..... umm ... heh .. Im 50/50 on it. I never really " Farmed " but there are a few things to take noted on this issue if we cant " pick them up as were lvling for creds " then whats going to be done about the City costs ? the nano garden costs ? at 5-30m a garden nano ? and those nanos that are 30-100m dyna loot ? i think a few things need to be adjusted as the set in game prices aka city costs / garden nano costs ... 50m for 4 8hr nanos is a bit ... much ... and 20m for 4 2hr nanos is way way way too much. but anyways i hope to see some sort of progression on this ... like some other form of getting creds to bring back up econemy. dont think ppl are gonna wanna spend 2 days getting a gunk pattern to sell the control eye for 2m instead of 40+.


Sincerely ,
Me :P

[Genetic]

dont think ppl are gonna wanna spend 2 days getting a gunk pattern to sell the control eye for 2m instead of 40+.

So that will allow the persons needing them to camp it themselves

[agentgimpy]

So that will allow the persons needing them to camp it themselves

And when they realize how heavily camped it is, they will farm credits and just buy one

[Gostosa]

How will you make money to buy nanos and stuff? I'm not talking about farming ingots but getting it while teaming.

Remember that the e-bay money farmers are high lvl ppl that already have what they need and won't lvl anymore or do new alts. They are here just for the money.

If everything works right, prices will go down in the player market. Questions is: will the shops follow it?

What about the city unkeep?

I personally never made money from ingots but from symbs/items and stuff. However, how I'll sell if ppl have no money? I don't mind reducing my prices but if I still have to pay same price in shops it bothers me.

[Genetic]

<--- and this is the guy who has been selling scheol PB patterns as shopfood at the time I know nothing of PBs and just loves hanging around scheol dynas to kill and get armor pieces I think I shopfooded 4 complete gunks. Hey that was good cash.

[agentgimpy]

If the market value of what your selling goes down, that means the market value of what you want to buy has gone down as well.

It's that simple folks!

[Genetic]

I never made much money from ingots nor do I sell stuff to others except the excess of the PBs I killed for my own symbs.

And I dont have problem buying my nanos. Or helping the org pay the upkeep. Read my posts in the other 2 threads to know how.

[wethepeople]

and as for Alien armor ... SS .. Combined mercs ... etc etc... ok its dropped in price ... ALOT since the first ingot nerf ... combined merc sleeves were around 600m - 800m a pop back before then , theyre now 300 or so mil for a QL 300 sleeve ... thats over half the price drop .... but in the end .... is farming bots and making some 300 combined going to be worth oh .. lets say after this nerf.... 50m a sleeve ? or even more so less ? and I remember when Kyr'ozch swords Type 112 and Energy rapiers type 992 QL 300 went for 1bil + a piece. now theyre 150m or less at that QL ... so that will significantly go down there are some + and - to this ok i remember paying 1b for my 300 type 112 , that now the noobies are able to get for 150+ mil. but Im not really so concearned about that , its the " time " thats going to be my debate. Is it going to be worth farming things or getting loot to sell on the market for 1/4 the cost of what it is even now ? like dyna nanos .. most your " mid common ones" are like 1 - 5m " more for the rarer ones" I camp dynas on occasion if im bored .. but now those 1-5m nanos will be worth around ... 400k - 2m if that and the 30 - 100m nanos will be worth 5-15m , Im sure everyone here thats played long enough remember when the 200 manex december's went for 30m a piece. and when SMG was 999m creds now a 200 manex isnt even worth 1.5m and SMG is 140m. everything has significantly dropped. which is good for the newcommers. but for the time it takes to farm them.. is it really worth the time ? In the end missions creds seem to be the only thing worth farming now. I go out and farm FRN on occasion , only if an org mate needs it or my advy needs a few still... my main has all the chosen he needs. but I remember putting over 2bil into my T2 / Chosen full sets now full sets are alot less. figure .... keeper T2 was about 900m for a full set of glyphs and a little bit less for chosen. Blue Abans used to be 90m a piece , now theyre 45ish or less. will that make them 20m now ? will it even be worth 20m to farm them ? or in the end will 20m be as easy to get as 90m with out the ingots and " note : the expensive other items " that were farely easier to camp , FRNs Dyna loot , etc that made it obtainable to get 90m ? I know im rambling , ranting ,... i see a few good things and wonder about a few other things .. like farming T2 glyphs for 15m a glyph ? after deflation occurs. will that be worth it ? or will there be benefits to them being that cheap ? like will it be too easy to obtain ? or too hard cuz of the price drop on everything else ? anyways... hehe back to reading the 23 pages of posts its interesting to read everyones views.


Sincerely -
me :P

[antellies]

the only way that prices are truely going to go down is to do away with the armors all together. It's been said many times that ingot farming (other than the ebayers) are only like what, 10% of the market? out of all my rk3 buddies that play, none of them make their money from ingots. they all make it off uber pen/inf/ai armor/weapons. unless funcom makes the uber stuff no drop, you will see no drop in the prices.

side note = make the armor no drop. increase the drop rate. make it where you actually have to be the level to get the item. ie = 130 to get to scheol for scheol stuff, 160 to get to ado to get ado stuff, whatever it is for pen and inf. it will cause less camping, less headaches and deflate the economy entirely.

*edit*
Jobe, t1, t2 & chosen armor are all no drop.......

[Genetic]

Well if people doesnt see that camping the stuff for sale is worth their time, then the people who actually need it can camp for themselves. This is a good thing imo. Its hard to find a T2 team these days cause the catas is full of people farming them for sale, and the lowbies just prefer buying. I'm hoping this will change since no high levels will consider it worth their time to camp unless they're helping a friend getting it, then the lower level will start forming teams to get it again.

[Anthem2k]

When the game started yalms were the money sinks... getting 5 mill was a feat, since then they've added more different yalms, paints, jobe armor, etc.

The point is, right now there is way too much money floating around the economy, theres a few items that cost more than a billion credits to buy from others. Remember 999,999,999 credits are allowed per toon, so buying said item takes 2 toons on each end of the transfer. I have a feeling FC never intended anyone to really get even near a billion credits on one charector.

There are many ways to make money, farm PB patterns and sell symbiants, blitz missions for anima's, farm GA, farm FRN's, tradeskill, charge for buffs (back in the day it was 1 mill for a wrangle).

So, most likely FC intends to make the buying power of each credit worth more, IE get money out of the system. That means watching average economy untill the prices of items drop enough to change the prices of the money sinks to stabilize it and stop it from making everyone broke.

[agentgimpy]

.. like farming T2 glyphs for 15m a glyph ? after deflation occurs. will that be worth it ?

Sure, because if you need 15m x 10 to buy a piece of armor for 150m and your price on T2 glyphs drops to 10m its likely the price on that armor has dropped relatively the same, say to 100m. So now we have the same 10 glyphs buying the same piece of armor.

[antellies]

oh, oh... better idea. and i like this one alot. nerf the max cred limit. it's currently 999,999,999...... make it more like 99,999,999

[jokzer]

nerf the max cred limit. it's currently 999,999,999...... make it more like 99,999,999

Hey, no fair! It's my dream to have a hundred mil..
And I'll get it too, if the game doesn't go away on me!

[Genetic]

oh, oh... better idea. and i like this one alot. nerf the max cred limit. it's currently 999,999,999...... make it more like 99,999,999

Yeah the way it stands now i cant read how much NCU i have

[FatBugsy]

Sure, because if you need 15m x 10 to buy a piece of armor for 150m and your price on T2 glyphs drops to 10m its likely the price on that armor has dropped relatively the same, say to 100m. So now we have the same 10 glyphs buying the same piece of armor.

Ummh, not really. I most certainly wouldn't camp T2 if I could make the same money blitzing animas. That would mean highbies wouldn't camp T2, so there wouldn't be T2 for the lowbies to buy. And do you know why there aren't lowbie T2 teams? Not because highbies camp and od but because the droprates are abysmal and it takes ages to get the stuff. You'll be past the level where T2 is useful before you can get a set of it without buying. Which, of course, is a thing FC should fix.

[LordLucan]

If blitzing animas is easier to allow you to buy T2 glyphs than to camp them, everyone will buy T2 glyphs from blitzing animas. Outcome: shortage of T2 glyphs, you can charge more for them, it becomes worthwhile for people to camp them.