Note from Game Director: Removing Ingots

[Cyclotol]

I am very happy about this latest and much needed nerf, these are my opinions and reasons, as such if i offend anyone/irritate them/insult them so be it, it is not my intent,

1. I am a paying account holder I have all the expansions, as a paying customer i should have access to most items involved in the expansions if i am within the range to use them, and if i am unlucky and dont manage to get the drop im looking for i should at least be able to purchase the item for a reaonable price.

I do not and will NEVER camp any mob mindlessly, to make cash i dont camp dynas, i have given away dyna nano's for no other reason then just to help a younger player out.(Wildhelp 3x Fixer nano's)

I have done insane numbers of missions, before i was level 100 i had enough tokens for my 1250 token board every missions max cash,

And i still cant afford the prices that are on the markets, if i buy a couple items at listed prices, im right back to where i started,

I have become so frustrated lately because i am unable to enjoy the game and all it has to offer because, the only way i can is to become the type of player that is causing the problem in the first place.

It has come to the point that i have very seriously considered buying credits online just to get to the point that i can buy itmes from players/markets

As for the city monthly expenses/nano kits and other set prices, i hate to say it but they have to stay at there current prices. Why you ask, as money sinks to get rid of the huge amounts of excessive cash that is in the game that is causing the problem. It wont last forever but it is the only way the ingot nerf will work.

I do realise that this will crush some small orgs and i am truly sympathetic to your plight, it is a shame.

hehe this will probably piss off some people, As for Omin orgs, there is only one org you should be a part of "Omni-Tek" there of course are smaller groups within this Omni-med, Omni-pol etc.... but if your really here for the RPG aspect of this RPG game, then you should be blindly obedient to the will of Omni-Tek.

The clans on the other hand should have smaller multiple loose affiliations and coalitions to fight the massive Oppresser Omni-Tek

Also with this nerf hopefully the one man City farmers will die out, which will open up more city plots, which inturn might make AI loot more affordable to the general population. Hopefully with the release of LE the individual AI missions will come into being and this will improve AI prices emensely. 27+mil for a unenhanced kyr'ozch pistol QL say 30ish is just stupid on top of that 15+mil for the bio material retarded. Hell the only way the non power gamer can buy this item is to mindlessly bash hecklers ( lets all cheer FC on this most excellent nerf)

I started playing this game the first day of release,and have been plaing on and off since then, and i must say it was far more enjoyable when nobody had money, when there were not any Twinks,

I would love to see level restrictions on static dungeons/ armor/weapons/ just yesturday in schoel im in a static dungeon doing some (hold your breath) leveling away from hecklers. I was level 107 my goal for the day 110, so there i am minding my own business not bothering anyone... Enter the level 190 shade, enter the 169 Mp enter the 150 ish Keeper( all who will remain nameless) im in the middle of killing said mob, mini map is open player comes up behind me watching me kill mob ( no doubt doin a /inspect to see my level) runs into the room into the next chamber kills all mobs in there, why for what i doubt seriously they needed Orca/roch insigs.

Now for those that say you need to kill grey mobs to get pages/items, if you planned your toon instead of mindlessly power leveling to the endgame, wouldnt you have gotten said items, for said quests?

Same goes for farming the jewels for the bracers off the boss mobs in static dungeons I find it hard to believe that a 150ish+ character is getting any exp from mobs that are gettin easy for my toon at 110

This is an excellent start FC but there is more that needs doing to make this game more user friendly to the non power gamer

again this is probably going to piss some people off, it is not my intent, as for the nerf and the small orgs again it is a shame but try to think of the bigger picture greater good of the overall game

[Thermonuke]

ok, first of all, i wanna say, i have an NT, and i do kite ely, i have also been one of the ppl ganked by 200+ omni's who are there to farm ingots, so getting rid of them is not such a bad thing, mainly because i have other toons which can also make creds in other ways, so they werent a major part of my game income.

however, if anyone thinks this is gonna stop NT's kiting in ely, forget it, if u want NT's to leave ely alone, you need to nerf the range on mobs in the higher lvl gardens, i have tried and failed so many times to root, run and nuke, only to find the mobs have MUCH more range than i have, and being a squishy little NT, its damned hard to actually kill even normal mobs 1 on 1 in ado and scheol. oh, and then we have the fact that nano resist seems to be totally ignored by mobs in SL, so even grey mobs 100 levels lower than me, can manage to DoT and blind me, even tho i have like 1.2k NR.

nerfing ingots may well solve the amount of petitions and complaints and issues funcom have every day, but its still not gonna solve the problem of getting higher lvl nt's out of ely, to do that, give us some where else we can kite and get better xp then ely hecks, sort out the nano resist problems so that the mobs we could kite like spirits and dryads cant DoT or Debuff us, maybe then, ely will be a place where lower lvl players can team and lvl safely.

hell, i'd be happy with a GS'd biodome somewhere, a place just for NT's to go and kite, somewhere we can lvl without the worry of gankers, teams of heck noobs running thru then bitching about how much NT's suck, a place where the outcasts can get faction, XP, loot and 220 all without so much as a single petition against them


oh yea, the other things that have been mentioned i agree with as well, No loot from grey mobs, sure, some ppl will make ubah twinks to kill predators for the armour, but at least it gives others a fighting chance, and havent got to compete with some high lvl player who can kill them in 1 hit, (yea, the ingot farmers are as sure as hell gonna be dyna camping for loot now, WTG funcom, u solve one problem just to cause more) and increasing the drop rate on certain items such as T2 and T3 parts, (not a huge amount of increase, but enough to make it interestng and not just frustrating trying to get T2), i was once told that most players dont get T2 sorted out till about 205 for their first toons, what i didnt realise at the time was that its gonna probably take 45 levels for me to farm all the parts i need for it :/ a drop rate like T1 parts would be better imho, as well as losing the No Drop from them. i mean, wtf? its not as tho they drop on every kill, making them no drop as well just sucks even more, it means we cant even pick up the ones we dont need and trade them to ppl who do.

[Waffen]

This is not even remotely about only NT's in Ely. Boatloads of Soldiers, Keepers, MA's, Fixers, etc title 7s I would see farm there all the time.

[Vlain]

Same goes for farming the jewels for the bracers off the boss mobs in static dungeons I find it hard to believe that a 150ish+ character is getting any exp from mobs that are gettin easy for my toon at 110

Not sure what you mean by this part. So...if I want to farm the gems I need for a 4-gem bracer are you saying I shouldn't be able to do that if I'm alot higher level than the mobs that drop them?

[Lillagumman]

if it helps u anny, i killed that PB 32 times b4 i got the fugging arm, i have no luck with anny drop in AO, do i complain ? no...

mwaha i "only" killed the pb 17 times

[Kari]

Now for those that say you need to kill grey mobs to get pages/items, if you planned your toon instead of mindlessly power leveling to the endgame, wouldnt you have gotten said items, for said quests?

Same goes for farming the jewels for the bracers off the boss mobs in static dungeons I find it hard to believe that a 150ish+ character is getting any exp from mobs that are gettin easy for my toon at 110

Ah, so anyone who has a 150 toon & buys the expansions will have to reroll to do their keys/specs/ etc? well that's a winning strategy. And of course when we want new aruls we'll be forced to buy the gems off you?

All level locking does is create more twinks.

[Genetic]

there aren't lowbie t2 teams because they would die trying

By the time you need T2 your team of 6 should be able to handle ado and pen cata.

[Thermonuke]

waffen, i know its not just about NT's, its about getting higher lvl ppl away from the hecks in ely, and adjusting the economy in AO, but i was making the point that for an NT, scheol and ado, and to a degree pen, offer nothing but death to most NT's who want to go kite things, and lets face it, there is no feeling like one kite which gains you a full lvl of xp or more, kinda like the first time u get an ado heck kill and see the 500k xp u get from it, its addictive, and we need to have more places where we can go and do this, by FC providing those chances, what NT is gonna stick around kiting ely hecks for 100k a time when they hit 160, if they can hit ado and kite things worth double the xp? hell, how many ppl go back to killing ely hecks in a team after they have killed ado hecks in a team?

[Thermonuke]

Ah, so anyone who has a 150 toon & buys the expansions will have to reroll to do their keys/specs/ etc? well that's a winning strategy. And of course when we want new aruls we'll be forced to buy the gems off you?

All level locking does is create more twinks.

well, thats why i said get rid of the no drops, which means someone who has a lower lvl toon, can sell the parts for spec's, arul saba's etc to higher lvl players and make themselves some creds, hell, if u make it to 150 and cant afford to pay 100k for spec 1, u should really be forced to re-roll all your toons

*edit* just remembered, i have found parts for spec 1 and spec 2 in dungeons/mish in pen as well, so not exactly too bad for you to get even @ lvl 200 if u subscribe

[Neco]

Seriously, I dont understand why people are so upset about the ingot nerf. Personally, I think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I understand that many players out there started playing after SL was released, and therefore dont know how to make cash other than on ingots, but believe it or not there are some really nice ways to make cash that dont involve farming ingots from hecklers.

1) Roll easy team mishes with friends, kill everything including the boss, loot everything and sell to the shop

2) Learn what items are worth selling to other players, and go get em and sell em

3) Blitz missions for anima nanos and battle suits and sell em to vendors

4) Become a professional blitzer. Peeps are often too lazy to get their nanos/items themselves and will gladly pay you to get them instead

Creds are out there just waiting to be made, but you gotta stop whining about it and get ur lazy butts out there and make them.

Just my 2 creds....

Wise words from the man that taught me how to make my first 100M

[Vlain]

By the time you need T2 your team of 6 should be able to handle ado and pen cata.

Its been my experience that by the time a team can handle pen catas they're ready to put on t3. The exception to this is the 5 mobs at the back of pen catas.

[Cyclotol]

well, thats why i said get rid of the no drops, which means someone who has a lower lvl toon, can sell the parts for spec's, arul saba's etc to higher lvl players and make themselves some creds, hell, if u make it to 150 and cant afford to pay 100k for spec 1, u should really be forced to re-roll all your toons

*edit* just remembered, i have found parts for spec 1 and spec 2 in dungeons/mish in pen as well, so not exactly too bad for you to get even @ lvl 200 if u subscribe

exactly my point Nuked

[Masterdeath]

I love it. The only thing I dont love is the fact that it should have been done along time ago, now theres so many people 200+ who have billions and billions of credits on different characters that it really will only effect the new people who start the game. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But atleast there wont be goofballs farming hecks all day.

[Triskweline]

Alien armor is one of, if not the best armor in the game, of course you have to expect to pay alot. Either that or people sell QL300 Combined armors for 50mil a piece, suddenly you see everyone wearing sets (In other words all RK2'ers will be sporting a nice set of SS :P).

Sure. In fact I think making it nodrop would solve a lot of our economic problems as well as get rid of the farm cities and open up land to real orgs. I doubt this will happen though because it could no longer be a tradeskill armor, and as it is now it's a bit of tradeskiller love.

However I was talking about the value of the credit, not the value of the armor. The armor should and would have the same relative value as before, just, you wouldn't have to log in four friends in order to pay for a set.

[Littlisttza]

Uhuh - and thats Fun?

Actually thats whats called a "timesink" - for those people who want to actually gain xp and make a few creds on the way now you have to do both - or at least more so than before. Its a feeble fix for a bigger problem - or an intentional added timesink, or both.

I wonder how much creds ever came into the economy from the (guess) 90% of people who killed hecks for xp and picked up what they found on the way.

Dont tell me about how to make creds, I figured that out years ago. I just dont believe penalising the majority for the effects of a minority is a sound solution. Its just the easy one.

Lol big timesink camping lurky/nippy...now that is a timesink.

its funny how just a few people are doing about 90% of the complaining. I remember when it took months and months to get into the 150+ range. Now you can do it in a few days. That is the problem. People are leveling so fast now that they cant afford to keep their toons upgraded. When you make 10+ levels in a day, you end up doing major upgrades every 2-3 days.

Since Fey learned how to make creds years ago, then obviously my post was for the rest of the whiners....not the the high lvl, rich, been playing for years, already know everything whiners.

all the items that cost outragous amounts are not needed to play the game...only if you want to be uber twinked. I never will have a rpb/dragon chest...and that is fine with me. since when in any game do you get handed all the best items in the game with out working for them? if you want an item bad enough then it is worth the time to camp/earn creds to buy it.

also, the fix for high lvl people in ely(nt kiters etc) is to drop the exp gain from them after they turn green massively. instead of still giving 80-100k a pop drop it to 20-30k a pop when they turn green/light yellow. if NT's cant make a decient amount of exp from kiting hecklers then they will go kite other things...like spiders/mortigs/sided mobs.

[Obtena]

I love it. The only thing I dont love is the fact that it should have been done along time ago, now theres so many people 200+ who have billions and billions of credits on different characters that it really will only effect the new people who start the game. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But atleast there wont be goofballs farming hecks all day.

SIGH ...

Think about it this way. The average person doing hecks actually makes ALOT LESS creds during their leveling than that same person doing missions. When ingots are nerfed, it forces people to do these alternate methods of leveling that will in fact net you more creds than you ever whould have gotten being a hecknoob.

The rich won't be any more rich. In fact in terms of the sum of their liquid assets (creds) and assets (stuff), they will become poorer because that Dchest that was worth 800 mil last year is now 400 mil and I suspect may go even lower. As the earning potential of the server goes down because of the ingot nerf, prices for items that people sell align to that. It's the price that people are willing to pay that drives the market for items, not what someone sets that price at. If prices are set artifically high, fewer people buy. People want to sell so they slowly lower the prices. Think about it. That's not something debateable. It's how it works.

Would be nice to see more people using their heads on this topic instead of spouting off silly diatribe about how the rich get richer, etc...

[_Bonk_]

The rich will stay rich but there will be less annoying camping in certain zones and there will be less money in the economy which should over time start to lower prices which will in both cases benefit the average player not the uber player. The uber player will stay uber but be just a little less uber and they will have to play the game more to get their riches.

[Rabidog]

Although i agree there is 2 much money in the game i dont think removing the ingots is the complete answer... There isnt much other opportunity in shadowlands to make much money and from my point of view and many others who dont like grinding out the missions its not good...

Couldnt they have just made it so ingots and pearls etc just dont drop from grey mobs and make mobs grey out sooner..

[Vlain]

The rich won't be any more rich. In fact in terms of the sum of their liquid assets (creds) and assets (stuff), they will become poorer because that Dchest that was worth 800 mil last year is now 400 mil and I suspect may go even lower. As the earning potential of the server goes down because of the ingot nerf, prices for items that people sell align to that. It's the price that people are willing to pay that drives the market for items, not what someone sets that price at. If prices are set artifically high, fewer people buy. People want to sell so they slowly lower the prices. Think about it. That's not something debateable. It's how it works.

Would be nice to see more people using their heads on this topic instead of spouting off silly diatribe about how the rich get richer, etc..

You said it, I agree with you 100%. This point has been made about 30 times in this thread (in addition to related threads) in one way or another, but it still doesn't seem to sink in. Starting to wonder if the schools teach basic economics anymore.

BTW, I wish I could find all the billions and billions of credits Isellstuff says I'm supposed to have...have you seen em anywhere?

[Deunanknute]

Ok FC has removed ingots for 2 apparent purposes.

1. To address the inflated economy.
2. To address the ebaying of credits (and tangentially to the decline in the quality of gameplay in the Elysium heckler hunting areas)

First of all I have no problem with the removal of ingots from the SL loot tables. I leveled on hecklers for one day in Nascence and only kill Elysium hecklers to test the damage on a new weapon when I get one so I have gotten maybe 6 ingots combined in Nascence and Elysium.

However, given the apparent reduction of ingots over time and the claim by many confirmed by many more that presently ingots only contribute a fraction of what they did to economy from the launch of SL to the date of the last ingot value nerf I don't see this as having a gigantic effect on the inflated economy. Apparently the successive ingot nerfs have already made their impact and this will final step will only have a small effect so as others have said, perhaps too little too late.

If what one person posted here is correct, about 2/3 of the potential value from farming Elysium hecklers comes from mob parts so it may still be a viable method for people to farm credits. Also as one other person posted here, NT's still will be motivated to kite for xp. Therefore this may not solve the problem of farming for credits and all the problems that accompany it (KSing, training, ganking and ebaying of credits) or (to the extent anyone considers it a problem) NT kiting. On the other hand it also means that the folks complaining about the removal of SL ingots really don't have that much to complain about. If farming Elysium Hecklers is their primary means of raising credits to buy items from other players, reducing the credit earning ability by one third should not cripple their ability to raise funds. Ditto for paying player city upkeep.

So I guess my question is why is everyone treating something which may have little effect on the game like such a big deal?