WHY do alien weapons no longer drop on Noob Island?

[Phyxr]

Nice to have a reply.

It is a pity that, when players have been asking for more AI drops on the Island, FC decide to do the exact opposite and then not make it known they plan to do it.

I have a couple of kids who play (and pay) for AO and they tend to play a character to around level 50/60 and then start up a new one. Not typical game play perhaps, but that's what they enjoy (as do I, I might add).

A part of their enjoyment was collecting and using the alien weapons on the Island, as it is pretty much the only AI related play they are ever likely to get with the current way the AI expansion works.

I feel it was particularly brutal of FC to remove these items without warning.
At least if it had been mentioned in the pre-notes some stockpiling could have been arranged, or something.

I know it's only small beer but it is increasingly symptomatic of how players in general are treated, or at least how they are percieved to be treated.

Now both go the old Jobe route and one was even smart enough to ask if he could reduce his monthly payments by dropping the, now useless (to him), AI expansion. That was another inflexibility I needed to try and explain.

Yesterday I opened froob accounts for both of them am letting them explore the froob option.

[If6was9]

Presumably the AXP scaling is going to change, that's my vote for part of the reason they had to remove the weps.

Secondarily, they're going to be adding aliens to mishes, so we could pop into an RK back yard, old-style, and start doing alien mishes at level 2. That too is my guess.

The old ICC BY dynamic meant that people would try to level past 15 so they could get a third AI level. Leveling on the island became insanely slow after level 6 or so but some people would grind it out. They got weps (an incentive) and eventually more AI levels. They also pounded all the bosses first, to get more exp and phatz, and true newbs had 0 chance.

The ICC BY is an intro and a boot in the pants. That's what its been intended to be all along. FC seems to be removing incentives to linger longer.

[Unsure]

Presumably the AXP scaling is going to change, that's my vote for part of the reason they had to remove the weps.

Secondarily, they're going to be adding aliens to mishes, so we could pop into an RK back yard, old-style, and start doing alien mishes at level 2. That too is my guess.

The old ICC BY dynamic meant that people would try to level past 15 so they could get a third AI level. Leveling on the island became insanely slow after level 6 or so but some people would grind it out. They got weps (an incentive) and eventually more AI levels. They also pounded all the bosses first, to get more exp and phatz, and true newbs had 0 chance.

The ICC BY is an intro and a boot in the pants. That's what its been intended to be all along. FC seems to be removing incentives to linger longer.

Adding alien mishes ?..when?
change to Axp Scaling?

when? how?
if yu know something we don't just spit it out :P

[atlasdreamer]

Adding alien mishes ?..when?
change to Axp Scaling?

when? how?
if yu know something we don't just spit it out :P

Well known that LE is gonig to be adding Alien mishs similar in nature to those we can pull now.
Read the LE interviews. There is actually quite a bit of Info in those.

[Ozzy_Bourke]

Just wondering... Who's idea was it to make the first area you see when starting the game (game proper, when you can actually equip a weapon, that is) less interesting than it was before?

[Unsure]

Well known that LE is gonig to be adding Alien mishs similar in nature to those we can pull now.
Read the LE interviews. There is actually quite a bit of Info in those.

LOL..
One would have thought that changing something in prevision of a future epansion for which there isn't an eta,is like ..premature?
and in a lots of threads recently when the unexplain happens, like a useless quest reward a new staff that doesn't do much, a +25 arul questable by 210+ wearing +82s ..etc
I read "nevermind they probably have a greater purpose in mind..LE"
LE doesn't exist yet and what does it have to do with quests designed for inferno..
i am sick of that LE thing beeing thrown here and there just because some stuff the devs do defy our comprehension..
ITS NOT OUT IT DOESN"T EXIST..

[Shaoleet]

Well known that LE is gonig to be adding Alien mishs similar in nature to those we can pull now.
Read the LE interviews. There is actually quite a bit of Info in those.

great. I guess few people will mind if the lowbie AI weapons are removed AFTER the AI missions have been put into place. Removing them BEFORE that, without announcement to allow stockpiling and only a faint hint that there might be something in the future, is like kicking your customers in the butt and promising to kiss it tomorrow.
Give us the weapons back! If they really have to be removed, do it in 16.4 and announce it before.

[Camista]

I for one am excited to see what the next patch will bring in the way of alien content and the changes to noob island.

I promise even if I don't like it I won't post any threads asking for an explanation then tell you your explanation doesn't please me and is therefore no good, nor will I convince my (alleged) kids to drop their pay accounts.

Some of us do enjoy change, Sil. Just wanted you to know in case the constant criticism got you down. Not everyone expects to have the game designed around their specific wishes/interests, and not everyone has forgotten that we were all noobs (and yes, some of us even froobs!) at one time.

[Cambo1]

great. I guess few people will mind if the lowbie AI weapons are removed AFTER the AI missions have been put into place. Removing them BEFORE that, without announcement to allow stockpiling and only a faint hint that there might be something in the future, is like kicking your customers in the butt and promising to kiss it tomorrow.
Give us the weapons back! If they really have to be removed, do it in 16.4 and announce it before.

Think for a minute: What would have happened if Funcom _had_ announced that AI weapons were going to be removed from N00b Island?

Everyone and his dog would have rolled new alts with the sole purpose of farming the AI weapons. N00b Island would have been overrun with them, with endless complaints about KSing and such.

No, I think Funcom actually handled this the right way.

It just remains to be seen what they will be adding in the way of Alien content



Cambo

[GimpedX10]

Some of us do enjoy change, Sil. Just wanted you to know in case the constant criticism got you down. Not everyone expects to have the game designed around their specific wishes/interests, and not everyone has forgotten that we were all noobs (and yes, some of us even froobs!) at one time.

I agree. No one would like a game designed around my wishes and intrests. Not even me. Chin up Sil!

Gimpedx10

[Bereavement]

Apologies this wasnt in the update notes. It is intentional, I just missed it in the large number of changes when compiling the update notes. This change was done with some changes due in the 16.4.x series in mind, afraid I can't go into any further details on this one just yet, but it is part of our ongoing efforts to make the new player area more easily accesible for new players (the AI requirement whilst a nice incentive to upgrade was also confusing people for one thing, that wasnt the only reason, but it was a factor)

When i was a froob a long time ago, the promise of using one o htose weapons was the only reason i upgraded to AI. I later found out about perks ect. But having a few of those cool looking weapons in my inv made me want to upgrade. When i did upgrade,I bought both AI and SL and rolled a keeper and exploring the shadowlands with my ql 9 alien sword, thinking I'm a badass put a smile on my face and that's what kept me paying.
Now, as a paying customer I have to say that removing them is a real scumbag move as I know of many others who shared my very same experience and unless you are planning on bringing them back in 16.4, will only hurt your sales. Again, this is a real scumbag move to take away that little bit of enjoyment for new and old customers to attract a few more sales.

[Luuv]

For some reasons, many orgs still think that a good raid is a lvl200+ raid. If it were easier to get cru at lower levels (why is acru mission min level50? oh wait, because stupid suckers would exploit it if it were lvl1), raiding would make sense starting at lvl15 or 25. Bugs are easier at those levels, raids are faster, stuff like drones and powdered viralbots seem to drop more often. Learning how to raid at low levels would PERHAPS reduce the number of stupids that go lft at lvl140 and neither know about /assist macros, nor about not running ahead, not snaring into groups of calmed mobs and basics like that.

Much of AI was aimed at orgs, I have no problem if people without orgs have it a little harder now to get mostly useless weapons. Big deal. The interesting stuff never dropped on n00b island, anyway. Join an org that allows you to do lowbie raids and raid away. Finding an engie to warp is rarely a problem, and some cities are very easy to reach by foot, anyway.

I never liked the idea that you HAVE to stay on n00b island till lvl15, because you would not see any bugs for the next 185 levels. How stupid is that? Actually, now that I do have an org that allows me to raid at whatever level I want, I am off the crappy island as fast as possible. This place is really for newcomers, you get better equip and better xp in rk missions or nascence, anyway. And for the newcomers, the island is a good place to learn about the game. Now that fewer confusing items drop, more so than before. Leave the island to those people that it was made for. Newbies. This place was never intended as a farming ground for people that know the game well.

[Shaoleet]

now that I do have an org that allows me to raid at whatever level I want, I am off the crappy island as fast as possible.

I don't know whether that's any easier on RK1/2, but gathering a team for a 30ish or 80ish city AI is a pain over here. My impression of having alien content on demand (as was promised with AI) is not that of having to beg in the OOCs of several cities just to get one full team. Most people here wait until around 130ish to farm zixes, AI raids below that are rare. That's what makes low-ql AI loot extremely expensive (20M+ for a 80ish pistol) - the supply is low, and now with the ai-by loot removed it's gotten even lower.
If Funcom will keep the backyard drops removed, they should at least push the city drops up to old values. In the first half year after AI release, we had at least one weapon drop in each wave - now we can be happy to get one drop in the whole ground spawn. Droprates on ship have strongly declined as well.
Another option would be to get some AI mission thing ingame far before LE, 16.4 would be ideal - which I can't imagine why it should be so hard to implement. Add one button to the regular mission terminals "Aliens", and replace say 25% of the mission mobs with aliens. Replace the daft do-gooders in the mission text with Kyrozch Invaders and you're set

[Luuv]

I don't know whether that's any easier on RK1/2, but gathering a team for a 30ish or 80ish city AI is a pain over here.

Have made very good experience with raiding lvl50+. On RK1, that is. Plenty of people LFT for AI, many/most of them being lvl60ish or 76ish twinks. Raiding with a gang of pvp/totw twinks rocks. Few raids being offered at that level, so you can pick your raiders and just take the best.

Below that, LFT is barren when it comes to AI, but if you go LFT yourself, offering a raid, looking for members, it is usually a quick thing.

[Camista]

I don't know whether that's any easier on RK1/2, but gathering a team for a 30ish or 80ish city AI is a pain over here. My impression of having alien content on demand (as was promised with AI) is not that of having to beg in the OOCs of several cities just to get one full team. Most people here wait until around 130ish to farm zixes, AI raids below that are rare. That's what makes low-ql AI loot extremely expensive (20M+ for a 80ish pistol) - the supply is low, and now with the ai-by loot removed it's gotten even lower.

But this doesn't even make sense -- the ICC aliens don't drop q80 pistols. They don't drop pistols at all, or q80 anything. They drop very low quality weapons, and even then only a few types -- I have never seen these common drops sell for very much money at all. Who spends 20M for a sword they will outgrow in 5 levels? Who makes a level 10 twink? Not many.

RK isn't going to be any worse off for having fewer q12 untyped Kyr'ozch swords.

As for AI raiding, and finding members, there's a common fallacy that the only way to gain AXP in your city is to organize a full 6-member raid team consisting of a tank, doc, and 4 dd and progress all the way to the onboard Admiral. This is true at TL4 and up, IMO, but not remotely true at lower levels. Gather 2 or 3 orgmates of like level, or off LFT, and do just a ground raid. My level 70 doc has close to 5 alien levels, and 3 of them are from ground raids only, with small org teams. IMO, it's worth the CRU to have 4 perks in CNC rather than 2 -- especially if those 2 would be all I had until the level where most people think it's "worth it" to AI raid.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be more alien content for low-level characters, and it looks like LE may have some solutions to that, but in the meanwhile, there are some ways to work within the system as it stands now.

[Luuv]

As for AI raiding, and finding members, there's a common fallacy that the only way to gain AXP in your city is to organize a full 6-member raid team consisting of a tank, doc, and 4 dd and progress all the way to the onboard Admiral. This is true at TL4 and up, IMO, but not remotely true at lower levels.

From my own experience I'd say you can raid with anything if the members are even a little twinked below lvl100. Between 100 and 150, you may need some form of crowd control, and that can very well be a mongoing enfo, but you do not really need a tank. Only need a tank starting somewhere around lvl150, when admirals start to get over lvl200. That ís why I am all for raiding at lower levels as well. AIXP comes so much easier there. On my doc, I died like 3 times in the last 120 raids, all sub lvl150, almost all fast and smooth. My much higher engie dies a lot in raids and the raids take ages. Could kick myself now, that I did not raid earlier with her.

[Pwnded]

they will outgrow in 5 levels? Who makes a level 10 twink? Not many.

On RK1 around the subway area we have around 10 level 1-21 twinks around there every hour.

[Camista]

On RK1 around the subway area we have around 10 level 1-21 twinks around there every hour.

Funny, I've been there and not seen half so many. And those that I do see for the most part aren't using alien weapons. 2he enfs being the exception of course.

[Shaoleet]

Gather 2 or 3 orgmates of like level, or off LFT, and do just a ground raid.

That may work for getting a few AXP, but that does not work for getting equipment. As I wrote in my other post, the droprate of weapons in city AIs has been awfully nerfed in the past patches, so if you want weapons, you HAVE to get a full team and raid the ship - and most probably more than once.
I've done four 130ish city raids in the last two days, with one team, and the total loot list of all four raids was a ql170 spear and a ql168 energy sword. Two items that only fit in the trashcan after killing 300+ aliens.. is that a _good_ quota? And the high-level raids don't look much better, but there's at least the supplemental drops on AIPF. Like I said, I remember times when almost each groundwave you got one drop (useful or not, but you got something) - and if we'd get those rates back, I won't mind losing one source of twink equip at all.
The ql15 stuff from the noob island wasn't that bad either, at least in many cases better than the stuff Stacklund lets you craft, and definitely better than most RK lowbie equip. That's why people have been asking to get the FULL loot table on noob island - because the weapons that didn't drop would have been great alternatives for the RK stuff (think only about a 15ish kyr pistol vs. a 20ish electronicum..)
If I'd get the same droprate on a 15ish city raid that I had gotten on the noob island, I'd be happy to do some lowbie raids.

[pantemor]

This is bad news.

One of the things that made this startup zone interesting was the amazing amount of various "uber" items you could collect. Including strange-looking weapons that became useless in less than 10 levels, but very cool to wear and use.

My thoughts are that it was a very good introduction for new players to the variety of stuff you can collect on RK/SL. I personnaly enjoyed to get all these buffing stuff that made a *huge* difference untill you hit level... 15. I see them as an incentive to carry on and discover the game.

And there were many of them : boots, shoulderpads, sunglasses, guns, swords... All these semi-social stuff that made me happy to stay a few hours there to retrieve most of them, and make a few credz to be sure to buy all the interesting stuff from the shopkeepers. Compared to the pre-AI backyards, it was a massive improvement.

Collectig cool stuff is part of the game (else play City of Heroes), and removing stuff from the game is counterproductive. Alien weaps dropped ther were not that über anyway.