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Thread: Letter from the Game Director

  1. #201
    All this sounds very promising, can't wait for more years with AO

    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    As I said earlier in the thread, there aren't any plans to include any items that would have any significant effect on game play in that way. We are very conscious of people's thoughts and concerns there. The new system will be for the types of social 'cool and fun' items that are optional for players. The comparison to the veterans items is a good one, we won't be offering new weapons or armor or anything like that for direct sale.
    Any chances to get some veteran items included in this system? At least I could pay some to get the SL/RK recall beacons for account faster than 3 years...
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  2. #202
    Another positive point of this is smaller packages are going to put more pressure on FC to make them work, someone earlier mentioned as an example AI split into 3 parts at $10 each. Now, would you have paid $10 for the social aspect with half the yalms not working?

    The smaller a content patch is the more important it is that the content works 100% and having them released like they allows a lot more people to wait and hear customer reactions before they pay for the upgrade themselves.
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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Trousers View Post
    I found a secret vehicle video.

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  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    ...if you have been paying attention to the latest quests in Shadowlands and some of the other side information in recent and upcoming content (the scientists in Sector 10 for example) you might just find that there is already some clues, hints and information starting to appear about what might be revealed later on. Ror those that look hard enough, the questions, and even of leads on the answers, are already starting to appear
    Players who sign up tomorrow haven't been paying attention to the latest quest updates. When they reach those quests in a year or two, static quests won't give them any indication that the game is changing, either.

    WTB a return to regular storyline updates. We used to have these every patch (in the launcher news), sometimes more often. We've had over a year (plus a complete expansion) with no updates now. What happened?

    The official storyline hasn't been updated in even longer, almost two full years...
    Last edited by Keldros; Jun 28th, 2007 at 20:34:45.

  5. #205
    Well, it's good to know AO will be around for years to come, but.

    The new engine will take 1-2 years and by that time the game landscape is going to be very different and AO will still look dated and perform worse than whats on the market. Just look at TR(aka AO2), AO will never look like that, and that game comes out this fall.

    Bugs, bugs and more bugs, here we go again releasing a mass of new content and boosters while the pile of bugs that following us get bigger. Also, there is too much content already for the number of players in game already, we need more players.

    Bah, I'm happy there is a future for AO and I will be sticking around but I guess I just wish this had all been done a long time ago.

    Here's how it should have happened,

    New servers( and fix some bugs)
    DirectX9 engine(and fix some bugs)
    Mass advertising campaign(and fix some bugs)
    Froob program with a time limit, screw those ads, or at least pay 1/2 get the ads still or full for no ads, something like that. (and fix some bugs)
    Release masses of content for the masses of new players that liked the smooth running stable game they just tried.(and fix some bugs)
    Fix some bugs.
    why Why WHY ?!?!?!

  6. #206

    Talking

    Whens it coming out? in 17.5?

    WTB WTB!!

  7. #207
    SIL, before you release new content, will you fix the bugs that are still existing from previous expansions?

    How about you fix my pet pathing and the BS bugs...?

    this is the last month i am paying you before you fix this
    Stop thinking about AO as a boat that can float with many holes...
    You already lost most of yr veterans...

    cyaz

  8. #208
    Why do people who complain about bugs all have 1 thing in common, no clue how Game Dev teams work? :/

    The new content will Primarily be being done by Modelers/Texture artists.

    new Vehicle types, new Dungeons, items... People who will sift through code to hunt down bugs don't have a big hand in that stuff at all. Since its just adding more models/maps to what the pre existing game code can already handle.

    Hoverboards, their not gonna actually "hover" 5 bucks says it is nothing but a visual effect, and a small edge on the ground that would of prevented you from walking over, will stop those too, even though its still a few feet above it.
    Which means its just a new model/animation for walking/running, not some codded in new movement system. And the tricks? just new emotes, done by animators.



    Give them a break, you don't sit Mappers/Modelers/Texture artists in front of a code screen and tell them to Fix bugs. And you aren't gonna tell them to sit on their hands and do nothing wile the coders fix bugs.

    I still cant get why people dont just assume this, its pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Krause; Jun 28th, 2007 at 21:16:36.
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  9. #209
    So, Silirrion...

    Animal mounts in SL (or whatever those creatures are) are out of question?

    Using boards in Shadow Lands sounds... Well, it sounds and it looks strange.
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  10. #210
    I will admit I didnt read all 11 pages, but with the graphics engine update are you going to update the texture's quality for older items? Example, on the hover board photos the board looks very nice and you can make out the letters on it, but the guy whom is on top of it looks a little fuzzy being he's the old texture base.
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Krause View Post
    Why do people who complain about bugs all have 1 thing in common, no clue how Game Dev teams work? :/

    The new content will Primarily be being done by Modelers/Texture artists.

    new Vehicle types, new Dungeons, items... People who will sift through code to hunt down bugs don't have a big hand in that stuff at all. Since its just adding more models/maps to what the pre existing game code can already handle.

    Hoverboards, their not gonna actually "hover" 5 bucks says it is nothing but a visual effect, and a small edge on the ground that would of prevented you from walking over, will stop those too, even though its still a few feet above it.
    Which means its just a new model/animation for walking/running, not some codded in new movement system. And the tricks? just new emotes, done by animators.



    Give them a break, you don't sit Mappers/Modelers/Texture artists in front of a code screen and tell them to Fix bugs. And you aren't gonna tell them to sit on their hands and do nothing wile the coders fix bugs.

    I still cant get why people dont just assume this, its pretty obvious.
    QFT.

    Also, to those saying "fix the bugs before new engine/graphics/content/etc.", has it ever occured to you people that at least 90% of all of AO's bugs are due to the engine and the servers, coding having to be spliced to make newer features work on an older platform? Does it not occur to you that when AO is transferred into the new engine, most of these bugs will be wiped out straight away as there will be no need to splice, everything can be written into one platform/programming language/whatever?

    The gameplay mechanics, the art, the missions/quest, etc. will all be written onto ONE unified platform. then, the modelers/texture artist spoken of by Krause will be able to update the graphics/models etc. quite easily and probably fairly quickly ( as I somehow imagine that they have done some of that already, even if just for fun. I know if I was doing the art for AO, I'd have stacks of artwork already for envisioned improvements).

    The only thing to complete the package as far as reliability goes, will be to DUMP SAVVIS asap!!!
    Last edited by WisebutCruel; Jun 28th, 2007 at 22:30:49.

  12. #212
    Krause, you're almost 100% correct except for 1 thing:

    FC has to hire employees to do any of what you mentioned. Meaning they took the resources that could have gone to coding bug fixes and instead put it into the graphics engine.

    And before you give me the "but if you have too many coders you slow things down", you're right, but FC doesn't have that critical mass of workers on AO anymore.

    Again, I'm not saying the graphics engine is a bad decision at all (in fact, I think its going to take too long). But your argument is a fallacy. FC -could- have resourced fixing old bugs like pathing, AI city orgvantages, etc. They chose not to.

    If it was my decision to make, and I was worried about not being able to attact -new- customers, I would have made exactly the same decision. But the people you see complaining are -old- customers and those are what are most at risk.

    You may see some old customers return when the engine update is done, but if those same 5+ year old bugs still exist, they'll also likely be the first ones to get fed up and leave again. Fixing -both- areas will be needed for attracting and retaining customers.
    Last edited by Doctorhyde; Jun 28th, 2007 at 22:43:36.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
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  13. #213
    So their supposed to lay off the modelers/animators/texture artists they had so they could reallocate budget for more coders?

    This resurge in content is fueled by the fact that the Boosterpacks will bring in extra money. If it wasnt for that you dont really think that same amount of resources would of been applied to this game do you?

    You dont just throw more coders at a job, thats not how this works. If your complaining about how the ones they have are doing, then thats your decision, but in the end you really dont know what they have to deal with.

    They have to sift through thousands upon thousands of lines of Old code, written by Devs who arent around anymore, who knows if its commented properly or what.
    You dont just throw more people at a job like that, since the hardest part is getting the people to understand what the old devs did. If not your just back at square 1.


    Also ontop of that I REALLY think you overestimate the impact of the current bugs. New content is going to keep SO Many more customers ingame then a few bug fixes but no new content. Since the Old Vets you talk of have been 220 for AGES and have prettymuch done everything.
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  14. #214
    There must be some uber bugs around I don't know, because I hardly encounter serious ones. Not talking about game-breaking ones.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus View Post
    There must be some uber bugs around I don't know, because I hardly encounter serious ones. Not talking about game-breaking ones.
    There isnt any, just small stuff like Org City advantages acting weird sometimes, in some zones, stuff like that. Problem is, not many of them really warnt "Drop what your doing, this NEEDS fixing" attention.

    At this point I Really wouldnt be surprised if their gonna try to leave as many of the engine bugs (things that have to do with Movement, etc, like the yalm look bug) alone and work on the new port behind the scenes, since movement is something engine controlled, the game mearly tells it how fast, so those bugs wont be around, but new ones may popup. Would not be wise to spend so much time fixing bugs like that when that work will be fazed out in your next assignment your to be working on for the game.
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    This is going to get done if it kills me or preferably someone else.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Krause View Post
    So their supposed to lay off the modelers/animators/texture artists they had so they could reallocate budget for more coders?
    If you were following the real story:

    1) They haven't hired new modelers/animators/etc for this project ... they continue to use the staff that was used for things like LE

    2) They HIRED graphics engine coders

    The new engine won't mean new textures or graphics, not at the beginning. It just means a new executable to take advantage of modern hardware. It will allow more effects later on.

    Which means the funding they used to hire the DirectX engine coder(s) COULD have gone to game enginer coders. People who would work on the logic and various other bugs.

    And it wouldn't have affect the graphic design staff in either way.

    So stop trying to sound smart, because you're talking yourself into a corner.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  17. #217
    There isnt any, just small stuff like Org City advantages acting weird sometimes, in some zones, stuff like that. Problem is, not many of them really warnt "Drop what your doing, this NEEDS fixing" attention.
    This is exactly what I'm meaning. I'm long enough around to know those little bugs, but they're annoying, not more. And saying "I leave the game because of the bugs" is .. well.. I'd laugh.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorhyde View Post
    If you were following the real story:

    1) They haven't hired new modelers/animators/etc for this project ... they continue to use the staff that was used for things like LE

    2) They HIRED graphics engine coders

    The new engine won't mean new textures or graphics, not at the beginning. It just means a new executable to take advantage of modern hardware. It will allow more effects later on.

    Which means the funding they used to hire the DirectX engine coder(s) COULD have gone to game enginer coders. People who would work on the logic and various other bugs.

    And it wouldn't have affect the graphic design staff in either way.

    So stop trying to sound smart, because you're talking yourself into a corner.
    Actually no, I don't see how im talking myself into a corner at all, but you however seem to be gettin kinda mad. :/


    But for this game to last, it really needs an engine update, since that Alone is the key to fix ALL Mass PvP or any Mass gathering of people in the game, which truly is the games BIGGEST "bug", if you will. (yea its a engine limitation, whatever ;P)

    Also they in the future things they add will look a little nicer since they dont have to limit the model/texture size as much due to the engine only using your CPU. If in 2 years from now they still intend to have new players come to this game, when 3 other Sifi themed MMO's will be out on the market by then, the thing cant look like Half Life 1, and play worse (Since it doesnt use GPU really)

    Taking that into consideration, why would they try to nail out bugs that may not apply when they port it over. Sure things like org city advantages will still need to be fixed, but the vast majority of the bugs are movement related.
    Last edited by Krause; Jun 28th, 2007 at 23:39:00.
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  19. #219
    How's this:

    I'll eat my words if the new engine fixes any of those movement bugs

    And we shall all be happy I did!

    My feeling is this new engine will be a recoding of all the existing AO physics, just using a new renderer. I don't expect we'll see changes to the networking code, to the physics, to the pathing, or to anything else.

    Why? Because they will have to -force- people to use the new engine then. And that would be bad. There will be too many people who can't, who play AO -because- its an old game with old hardware requirements. Anything that forced people into a new engine instead of being at some level optional would need to be released as a new game.

    That means the new engine will help with client-side lag with things like texture loading and polygon calculations. The servers will help with server-side database lag. Networking could be improved some. But the real -bugs- (ie, not anomalies caused due to lag) will not be able to be addressed. At least not by the new engine.

    Hopefully the discussions here will help drive the requirements going forward. Because upgrading the engine alone won't save this game. Not when so many other issues exist. I'm not predicting the impending demise of AO, but everything entropies to a halt at some point if the core issues aren't dealt with. And the graphics engine and servers are only 2 of the core issues. The bugs that keep piling up are a 3rd. And the imbalances that need to be addressed are a 4th.

    And honestly, I personally know alot more people who have quit over bugs (sometimes over "exploits" which are often bugs that have been deemed "will not fix, do not use") and imbalances than have quit over graphics or lag.

    Graphics and lag prevent the new customer from adopting. Bugs and imbalances cause the experience customer to cancel. Both have to be tackled. So far we've mostly seen the addition of new content, which -slows- the cancellation cycle. But it can't kill it and eventually the added grind starts to speed up the cancellation cycle.

    I'll be -happy- to be wrong here That's part of my reason for posting it. So that the things are seen and prevented from ending up true.

    PS. I'm -not- claiming the engine upgrade is in anyway anything but a good things. Its spectacular. Absolutely needed. Has been for a long while. All I'm pointing out is this is -not- a "fixes everything" announcement. People with other issues are allowed to keep griping about them. And its not true to make claims that graphic artists would have to be fired to fix bugs, or that fixing the graphics engine has no relation to the resources put on fixing bugs. The only way that claim holds water is if bug fixing were fully staffed to begin with, such that no additional resources would help.
    Last edited by Doctorhyde; Jun 29th, 2007 at 00:15:51.
    Theonara: "...but if I weren't married, some days I'd offer to kiss you. You just make too much sense. "
    Maeventura: "Sigh, once again I can but only bow for hyde's wisdom."

    ...."Social" keys, lightbars, wen-wens......Better tabbing!

    ... First Troxdoc with QL300 symbs (AO 17.0 pre-Albtraum guide) ... as well as first with 12 of 13 Alpha symbs.
    ... First TL1 Clanner with Omni-Armed Forces armor (pics) (pointless yet hawt)


    <original UI hacker ... when not actively playing AO ... email = 'hyde [at] athenpaladins • org'>

  20. #220
    this is good news . i really do enjoy anarchy online. i am looking forward to the new content. as well as the new server stuff. one question i can test it
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