MA Doc

[Berdache]

Is martial arts still a viable option for doc? Martial arts, brawl, dimach? Are there any ma special attacks that are NOT MA only, that docs can use?

[Hygyeia]

Yes it is, MA is supported in a couple symbs and might be added in all symbs next patch. Your damage will be close to pistols and its the better option for a hp equip since you can use cm instead of cc. Thats all considering pvm though, for pvp MA docs are of rather limited use.

Brawl is usefull, about 3-4% of your damage in raids. dimach not really since it locks for 30 mins. For MA special attack I personally use Blessed with Thunder, but thats up to personal preference.

[Kazeran]

Yes MA is fine, as Hygyeia said its supported in 1 symb atm, and will be added to 2 more with new booster pack ( believe its booster pack ), PVM wise MA is just as good as pistol, only downside is you gota run closer to the mobs

PvP wise, the only downside is well, you gota run close to the people, if you get rooted ( you will alot) you can use the pvp nuke, and the dots, if you run around hands only, w/o shens/BoB's you can swap to bow if you wish for AS as well ( all talking TL7 ofc )
Lower TL's you can ofc still use dots, and the lower lvl nukes if you get rooted

Specials, Blessed with thunder for the dot it casts on target, it last long enough you can use another MA special before you have to use it again, such as Bird of Prey (30% chance of stun), or the Snake one

Dimach dont waste your ip on till TL7 if you feel you need to for the fact that its good only as a finisher, brawl is good dmg, worth raising, and then chance of stun is always nice :P

[Berdache]

thanks all, appreciate the info, since all of the other ma threads seem to be fairly old I wasnt sure if it was still viable but glad it is, gonna give it a go

[Darkintel]

Personally from experience I think MA is a much better option for pvp as you can hotswap with bow. Thus AS + dimach Also you get stuns, which have their usefulness... Although since everyone and their uncle has crit decrease it's not as great as it once was. I'd certianly give it a try anyway

[Amortia]

Melee in pvp sucks though :x


And how do people hotswap shens? I dunno if I'm missing something But I'm well off from being able to hotswap mine.. Granted you never mentioned using Shens :P but other people have and I just felt it fitting to post here :P

[BigBubba]

I seem to be doing fine with shens .... I win 2 out of every 3 duels ... and thats with alot of battles with shades ... traders .... and crats. If I would just stop trying to kill those professions I would double my win to loss ratio for sure. Unfortantly im a stubborn old fool and keep offering them up points. Here is my Shen docs PVP Numbers.


Duel rank:Rookie (3)
Duel wins:153
Duel losses:100
Solo rank:Resident (5)
Solo kills:710



Eunucha 220 shen doc
Dotz 220 Combat Remodulator doc
Inner Circle
Since 2001

[CriticalDmg]

Melee in pvp sucks though :x


And how do people hotswap shens?

Yes, it sucks to be melee in PvP... very F***ing much...

Noone hotswaps shen sticks, you either have just fists or you've just hotswaped to a bow for a second to use AS and take it off asap.

[BigBubba]

Criticaldmg your setup must rule .... Tell us what weapons you use and post your Duel score would you. Must be 10X better then my horribal melee setup.




Eunucha 220 doc
Dotz 220 doc
Inner Circle
Since 2001

[Amortia]

Crit is an MA.


And duels isn't what I'm talking about :P I can obliterate plenty of people with my shens in duels. But in mass pvp where everyone and their mother runs... If we had some sort of snaring or rooting capability it'd be a little better, but do to the absence of that, and our naturally lowish runspeed, coupled with how easily rooted/snared we are.. it makes for an overall less then fantastic experience. Thankfully I'm soli so I do at leas get tacky hack.

[BigBubba]

Sorry a trox in real life I guess .... thought some how he was saying Melee wasnt a workable PVP setup. I have had both 220 shen doc ... and 220 pistol doc and that huge advantage isnt real. Roots suck no doubt about it but some high ql free movements make the head ack less then its made out to be. I dont know just dont seem to be having huge problem with it personaly.



Eunucha
Dotz
Inner Circle
Since 2001

[Amortia]

I'm sure alot of it is just personal preference I love how i whipe the floor with soldiers as an Ma doc now. But overall I had a better experience in PvP as an AS doctor. Being Ma is a tradeoff for profs that we can and cant kill. I used to eat up evaders and enfs even. Now I can barely scratch enfs. but those oh so annoying soldiers who never seemed to die to my ithaca are hardly a problem anymore. would be nice to have the best of both worlds.. but we cant.

From an allaround point of view though my experience as an MA doc is alot better then a shotty doc. Shotty was a step below worthless in pvm. but good in pvp. Ma is Brilliant in PvM and decent to good in pvp. A very balanced option by all means as long as you can tolerate chasing after people then again if you dont fight alot of people who kite 24/7 it doesn't really matter.

I have no personal experience with pistols. I have a crat for that :P

[Macite]

I love my MA trox doc. Wouldn't change my weaponline for anything else.

[Jahh]

Just don't put any ip in dimach 30m recharge with 1k2 dimach sucks

[ziliath]

Well, dimach will always be 30min, so 1k2 doesn't really matter.

[DieWith]

I have a question there, might be silly but..
Since i plan on grabbing BoBs at 210 on my doc (yea i know shens are better, but i prefer looking cool), i reseted my pistol skill at 150 and changed to MA.
I made it 1k+, am 171 now, but the minimum dmg is still kinda horrible now that my dmg type is stuck on Melee on SL at least, on RK its quite fine.
Any ideas if i can change it to anything useful (chem ) until i reach the needed lvl for BoBs? (yesh, i already looked for something like that, but /fail)

[Amortia]

theres inamorata/sacrosanct weapons that are MA skill. they have crappy damage but they're okay for leveling in SL to get a little higher base damage. omni one is inamorata swatter. I forget the name of the clan one though.

[DieWith]

Sancrosanct Nunchaku that is. Energy damage, and requires 1hb skill, too.
I gave it a try, still using it (ql 180ish too bad), since its a bit of an additional damage anyway, tho even my pure MA (melee) min damage is higher. -.-

Thanks for the info anyway.

[Binarybits]

You can add a weapon for the 50% at best of your damage gets modded, but playing around on test myself I found a couple reasons not to bother:

1. The IP used to change your damage (half of it pending your atk/recharge matches your MA fighting) isn't worth it since most weapons (that I've tried) end up lowering both your min and max damage, and even attack speed in some cases.

2. PVP, don't even bother im my opinion since there is as mentioned a HUGE suck-factor in melee except for bow and even then thats for AS like everyone else.

3. Theres other ways a doc can solo a heckler, de-init, DoTs, Perk actions and the MA specials. Those eat through a heckers AC (think of it that way*) better than any weapon around. If it's hecker teams, you either would not be doing much damage, or being the CH tank anyhow, and the added 20-70% (fictonal) dmg gained against them would mean you still deal 20-70% (fictional) less damage than the others.

***************************************

Best thing I ever did as an MA doc, to improve my damage without using IP... Viral Targeting Units. Well any critical scope could work, but watch about the -nano init on some. The Viral is by far the best i can think of, +nano init and really nice critical mods. Even on a heckler my crits are nice, over 5x my normal damage with them and 1:7.6 ratio of critical hits ends up being the best thing to improve damage without using IP or needing to hotswap. In PVP you're still stuck with the melee nerf, but PVM MAdoc I feel is top choice over pistols... after all gotta remember compare MAskill to a selfbuffed pistol doc and see (remember you CANT twink on MAskill, but pistols you can -_- so make it an even comparison).

[Doctorhyde]

This is a necro, and the information might already be posted, and well ... I think it just follows the standard assumptions. But I wanted to see details for myself with my toon.

Doctorhyde, 220 troxdoc, full alpha symbs but NOT full Pistol research done (guess what I get to do next?)

220 Doctor Damage Comparison MA vs. Pistol:

Goal was to run a high-ish HP OK doc'ing gear average setup for MA vs. Pistol, not a min/max

This post doesn't say "this rocks" nor "this sucks". I just wanted a middling comparison between the two weapon types

NOT a crit OR damage setup, crit setup would dramatically increase both, +Damage would help both. Crit setup also makes PDKP a funny thing to look at but the lack of AR for it (if we'd had Shotgun Mastery perks I would have done PDKP) killed it for me.

Conclusions:
* Pistols and MA are basically equal for soloing dynas
* Pistols have buffing reasons that are nice and did slightly better on damage
(but not in a full soloing setup, crit setup wins with MA over pistols from past tests, hands down)
(IP notes: didn't MAX things like strenght, fling, treatment or complit, just enough for symbs and Awakened gear)
* PvM team: (for ma) Pistols by giving more ability to hit things in instances that hate melee while maxing evades and getting Deflect to 1500
(IP note: MA setup sat around 1K evades and no Deflect since it was pre-rebalance)
* PvP dueling: (for me) MA for dueling Sneak + AS and maybe shotgun if I wanted wars/BS
* Shotguns lacked AR
* Didn't have the IPR to run a Melee Energy (swords) setup
* Losing the panache of MA and the utility of different MA specials hurts me on a personal level but just wasn't worth keeping.

Notes:
* Target: Afreet Ellis (lowish HP but high ACs, easiest target)
* NO DoTs except Perpetuating Nano Reaper at the beginning to pull (pre-SL DoT)
(dots are a fairly static thing, this wasn't about maxing DD but testing weapons)
* Reminder that MA isn't just about high hits for Doc but also a few more hits per minute

Weapons/Gear:
MA: X1-R4 Viral Force Blades + Dreadloch Shen Stick
* ARMOR: 6 pieces of CM armor, DB2 stats bracer, Alb bracer, ACDC, 9% crit increase, Weapon Attunement HUD3,
* HUD/Utils: ACDC
* Important Skill Levels: 2006 MA/2326 AR, Brawling 1389, 23K HP
(Just enough to get MA skill: 2006 to get the 2K+ template)
* Occasional Brawls
* Some Bird of Prey attacks
* Not using Flurry of Blows
* Minor damage from running Reflect graft

    (Damage   /Damage per Minute/Hits /Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
MA: ( 312.617 / 62.940          / 194 / 22  / 11% / 3.733     )

Damage sample:
You hit Afreet Ellis for 1071 points of melee damage. <- Fist, yuck
You hit Afreet Ellis for 726 points of Brawling damage. <- yuck
You hit Afreet Ellis for 1503 points of energy damage. <- Viral Force Blades, semi-yuck
You hit Afreet Ellis for 1491 points of energy damage. <- Shen Stick, semi-yuck
You hit Afreet Ellis for 3541 points of energy damage. Critical hit! <- Shen Stick, good
You hit Afreet Ellis for 3537 points of melee damage. Critical hit! <- Fist, good
You hit Afreet Ellis for 3733 points of energy damage. Critical hit! <- Viral Force Blade, good

(yes, doc "ok" and "good" is crappy compared to actual MAs but we're comparing to Doc pistols)

Pistols (Dreadloch Right and Left hands):
* 5 pieces of CC armor (+ beast sleeve) and not finished with Pistol research
* Pistol: 2052 (maxed but no research), Fling 1220 (min to cap), Burst 1375 (min to cap)
* Otherwise same setup
* Due to 1 piece less CC this setup has -10 dmg per hit compared to MA and less HP (-1200 on trox)

    (Damage   /Damage per Minute/Hits /Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
You ( 315.129 / 74.700          / 200 / 20  / 10% / 3.726     )

Damage sample:
You hit Afreet Ellis for 1242 points of projectile damage. <- Regular hit, OK
You hit Afreet Ellis for 1242 points of Fling Shot damage. <- Regular Fling, OK
You hit Afreet Ellis for 2484 points of Burst damage. <- low Burst, OK
You hit Afreet Ellis for 3105 points of Burst damage. <- Average Burst, OK
You hit Afreet Ellis for 3726 points of Burst damage. <- Crit Burst? OK-good
You hit Afreet Ellis for 621 points of projectile damage. Glancing hit. <- yuck
You hit Afreet Ellis for 2250 points of projectile damage. Critical hit! <- Crit, OK