S42 A.G.A.I.N? part MDCVII

[Smasherr]

Guaranteed bot drops, 2 ACDCs, a load of IPRs, prebuilt Alpha and Beta boxes...not to mention regular APF loot, bounty/token items...what's not to want?

I agree, more useful items than in pandemonium, which has 100+ raiders on public bot on Beast week. 2 problems with S42: no visual item for epeeners and all useful items except ACDC can be aquired from elsewhere (unlike pande items which can be aquired only from pande). I'm just trying to come up with an explanation why RK1 doesn't have any public bot for this raid. It has to be about the loot.

[Redbar]

I can think of a few more reasons than loot quality to explain why RK1 has no public 42 bot..

- Fail a few times, and people think it's "impossible" and stop coming.
- Lack of people willing to lead a side in public raids.
- Time slips: with kapf42, announce might have said "move at 17:00 sharp!" and then at 18:00, you're still waiting for certain "key" people (read: friends of the raid leaders) to come home and log their characters so the raid can start. This seemed to me more the norm than the exception, which got old fast and was the main reason I personally stopped joining.
- The points above make it easy (and tempting) enough to rationalize not wanting to come.. "I don't really need the ACDC that much", "With 150 people ahead of me in line, I'll never get it anyway", and similar.

I'm sure these are teething problems that would more or less disappear as the leaders and zerglings got more used to the instance (which would explain how RK2 can hold regular public raids to this day), but public 42 on RK1 never seemed to get that far. RK1 leaders not charismatic and determined enough, perhaps.

I'm sure org coops are a bit different, but I never put any effort into finding out.

[Comi]

s42 is just fine, all fc has to do is fix the damn zone crashes.

[Tinypain]

Well RK1 doesn't have a bot because the people who get their acdc's stopped showing up and the bot died off because no one wanted to lead the cluster-$%&# of noobs through that place.

Omni's excuse for no org raids is they are "too lazy and don't need/want the loot". It least that's what the top omni orgs have provided us for an explanation in the past.

ACDC pushes my agent into the realm of seeing just about anything that's not another agent. I can see 98% of all shades in sneak too. A nice benefit of 150 perception. What's not to love and epeen ftw.

--Steve

[DrLithvium]

I need acdc and you can send a tell to me 24/7 and I´l show up. Could do sec 42 after i get my acdc to since it seems i actually get to heal some in there.

[harkness]

42 was designed and implemented by me. Tell me what you don't like about it, in any sort of constructive manner, and we'll see if anything can be done to IMPROVE it.

Sector 42 has been my favorite raid since it was released, but it definitely takes time, patience, and a LOT of people. Which honestly, is fine with me. If you don't like the raid, don't come.

However, there are a few bugs/other issues with the sector, and if you're open to fixing a couple of them, Means, it would really make it much more fun:

• Bugged Cocoons:
  
  This happens to my enforcer a fair bit, and I've seen it happen to others as well. In general, you still have the cocoon nano in your NCU but there's no cocoon around you. I think I've finally figured out the mechanics, basically, when you are cocooned, you get a nano in your NCU and then when a cocoon mob-type dies, it does a small AoE clear of the cocoon NCU. Unfortunately, if you are warped out of your cocoon, you still have the nano effect, but there's no cocoon mob near you which can be killed. This happens occasionally when you are warped out of a zone while cocooned, but it happens a lot in S42 when the tank is cocooned, but is still on the hate list of a patroller which has fallen behind the group. The patroller warps the tank and the tank is then bugged for the next 3+ minutes.
  
  Either make the warp effect remove the cocoon nano, or shorten the duration to 15 seconds after warp or something. Actually, the best thing would just be removing the patroller warp. The patrollers bug and get stuck a lot, and I've seen at least 3 raids wipe because the group is almost to one of the fences and the tank gets warped back to the big open area by a patroller who either got left behind or sometimes we weren't even aware had aggro'd. The warps aren't really needed as an anti-train mechanic, because the cocooners do that.
  
  
• Fence safety nano goes away on crash/LD:
  
  In a raid with 70+ people, there are going to be LD's, and there's nothing worse than LD'ing in between the fences and then being completely stuck because the protection nano is gone. I'd suggest adding another Biological Transceiver between the fences, maybe up the side passage that I know is there on east/west, so there's still extra work if you screw up and run out of time on the nano, but it's not a death sentence.
  
  
• Boss stuns:
  
  For those who like challenge, perma-stunned bosses suck and are boring. For those who don't like to die, perma-stunned bosses who suddenly unstun at the end and spawn massive adds suck. Maybe add another one of the ubiquitous leets in the playfield and when the Artillery Commander is aggro'd, spawn seekers based on the players in the area. Similarly for the reapers at west and the vectors at north.
  
  
• Reunite raidforce for Artillery Commander:
  
  Make the North and East bosses spawn a portal on death to teleport to the West canyon, so everyone can meet back up to kill the AC.
  
  
• Remove spiritual bots from the loot table:
  
  awwwww, please? =)

[Obtena]

42 was designed and implemented by me. Tell me what you don't like about it, in any sort of constructive manner, and we'll see if anything can be done to IMPROVE it.

I will take your management suggestions under consideration and seriously evaluate firing myself in the near future.

Ha, I knew I might get some response. Just to keep it short and constructive, It's about access to items. Do I seem greedy? Maybe, but is it FC's intention to tell us that you can only get ACDC if you are willing to subject yourself to the longest, complex raids with the biggest zerg the most times? Some people like that raiding but I think it's evident that it's unfair if loot tables are favouring those player types. It would be nice to have an option to get ACDC for those of us willing to work with small teams over many complex tasks as opposed to large teams over one complex task many times over. Really, this speaks to the segregation of players because of playstyle and because of availability of gametime. Not only do you need a long duration of time, but a specific time to do S42.

So as my constructive recommendation, I would ask that FC be willing to consider the following:

1. Make a tradeskill process to build an ACDC from parts
2. Spread those parts across RK raids for people to get in team raids equivalent to size, duration and complexity of LoX and Dustbrigade content. Might even be current encounters. Who knows. I'm certain FC can think of something to make getting an ACDC in this manner a challenging endevour that wouldn't affect the S42 experience for others.

This way, you don't favour a specific playertype with loot.

[Hacre]

Ha, I knew I might get some response. Just to keep it short and constructive, It's about access to items. Do I seem greedy? Maybe, but is it FC's intention to tell us that you can only get ACDC if you are willing to subject yourself to the longest raids with the biggest zerg the most times? Some people like that raiding but I think it's evident that it's unfair if loot tables are favouring those player types. It would be nice to have an option to get ACDC for those of us willing to work with small teams over many complex tasks as opposed to large teams over one complex task many times over.

So as my constructive recommendation, I would ask that FC be willing to consider seeding other raids with ACDC or make a tradeskill process to build an ACDC from parts and spread those parts across RK raids for people to get in team raids. Raids that don't require zerg. Complex, time consuming raids, sure, but take OUT the zerg factor. The time alone to organize these things is enough to discourage all but the most hardcore players. I don't think i'm in the minority to say that I dislike teh zerg raids, complex or not.

Your decision to zerg the living crap out of it isn't FC's fault.

As I said earlier, try doing it with your org/alliance/a coop. You do not need more than 30-40 people to do 42. End of.

[Obtena]

Your decision to zerg the living crap out of it isn't FC's fault.

As I said earlier, try doing it with your org/alliance/a coop. You do not need more than 30-40 people to do 42. End of.

A 30-40 person raid ... that's still a zerg whether you talk yourself into it or not. I'm not debating if it can be done with 30-45 people. I'm talking options for seeding ACDC or ACDC parts in raids that don't take 2-3 hours on a Saturday afternoon at 2 PM with 30+ people so that loot doesn't favour specific player access. I'm talking about options for loot or raiding for loot. I'm not looking for you to tell me that it's only my problem with S42 because I don't have 3 continuous hours to play at a specific time in the week for multiple weeks to attain points to win an ACDC.

And yes, it's all nice and easy to say we don't need to do it on Saturday at 2PM with a zerg, but the reality is that you would be lucky to assemble the volume and right professions outside of prime gaming time to even attempt to complete it within a reasonable amount of time. I would have no problem with a raid if it didn't exclude me simply because of my playstyle, but S42 does. Specific professions, specific (re. unreasonable) length of time. THAT is what is wrong with S42.

There are even ways to break up S42 as zones to give rewards too instead of all or nothing. Even people that like S42 can agree with that. FC implemented this huge, complex raid and there is only 1 unique item from the whole thing? That's a shame if you ask me. Even Beast has a more complex loot table with multiple mobs dropping stuff.

[Hacre]

A 30-40 person raid ... that's still a zerg whether you talk yourself into it or not. I'm talking options for seeding ACDC or ACDC parts in raids that don't take 2-3 hours on a Saturday afternoon at 2 PM with 30+ people.

And yes, it's all nice and easy to say we don't need to do it on Saturday at 2PM, but the reality is that you would be lucky to assemble the right people outside of prime gaming time to complete it. I would have no problem with it if a group couldn't complete it because they were gimps, but I do have a problem with it if you can't even think about raiding because there simply isn't the time or people available to try it. THAT is what is wrong with S42.

You're coming across as if S42 should be something that can be raided on a whim.

Also, 30-40 for a raid area like 42, is -not- a zerg. That's a zerg for Pande. Think of 42 as hey, a 42 man raid.

Zerging is the presence of overkill. Like 100+ at 42. Like 50+ at Pande. Like 7+ in the 12 man (lol).

All I see about 42 are complaints about how easily the AC dies under one or two stun procs, seems to me like numbers aren't an issue.

[Obtena]

Your decision to zerg the living crap out of it isn't FC's fault.

As I said earlier, try doing it with your org/alliance/a coop. You do not need more than 30-40 people to do 42. End of.

A 30-40 person raid ... that's still a zerg whether you talk yourself into it or not. I'm not even debating if it can be done with 30-45 people. I'm talking options for seeding ACDC or ACDC parts in raids that don't take 2-3 hours on a Saturday afternoon at 2 PM with 30+ people so that people with time restrictions can have a chance at even considering doing this raid and getting what is probably undebateably one of the best items ingame.

And yes, it's all nice and easy to say we don't need to do it on Saturday at 2PM, but the reality is that you would be lucky to assemble the right people outside of prime gaming time to complete it within a reasonable amount of time. My biggest issue is that i'm simply excluded from the S42 because of my own available time. THAT is what is wrong with S42.

Now, of course I have made the assumption that FC cares that all people can access the items in these raids but they might come back and say no, they only intend for the most hardcore players with the proper time requirements can get an ACDC. That's fine too, but so far, I haven't heard that so I'm assuming FC is open to making this item accessible in some way outside this very constrained raiding environment.

[Hacre]

A 30-40 person raid ... that's still a zerg whether you talk yourself into it or not. I'm talking options for seeding ACDC or ACDC parts in raids that don't take 2-3 hours on a Saturday afternoon at 2 PM with 30+ people.

And yes, it's all nice and easy to say we don't need to do it on Saturday at 2PM, but the reality is that you would be lucky to assemble the right people outside of prime gaming time to complete it. I would have no problem with it if a group couldn't complete it because they were gimps, but I do have a problem with it if you can't even think about raiding because there simply isn't the time or people available to try it. THAT is what is wrong with S42.

The definition of insanity, is repeating the same thing over and again, while expecting a different result.

Clearly you didn't even bother to read my post.

[Obtena]

The definition of insanity, is repeating the same thing over and again, while expecting a different result.

Clearly you didn't even bother to read my post.

I read your post. You're ignoring me. I want options for getting ACDC because I can't attend S42 raids. You're telling me how to raid it with 30-45 people. It's not even relevant to my inability to attend the raids. OK, I'm insane, but at least I can follow a conversation. Please enlighten me on how limiting the number of people for a S42 raid is going to change the fact that It's not possible to find people, organize and have successful S42 raids within a time duration reasoanble for people in the same situation I am? Don't answer, because there is no answer. Unless the raid is fixed so it can be done with 6-12 people in 1-2 hours, it's too constrained for many people to attend. I mean, would it be reasonable for FC to design a 24 hour raid? Would it be reasonable for FC to design a 200 man raid? They know it's not. I don't think S42 is reasonable for many people to attend because of it's combination of duration and complexity. That's why you see it during specific times during the week.

I don't think that's acceptable unless FC tells me they intend for that situation to occur, where they design raids that not everyone can access because of what may be unrealistic RL limitations. If they care about not favouring certain playstyles, they will listen, otherwise, they will do nothing about it. That's why I'm so hard on the designer, who happens to be Means, beacuse ultimately, I think a game designer would want their content to be experienced and enjoyed by the MOST people possible and not be exclusive to people who can plan significant lengths of time on specific days to attend it.

I offered a suggestion to fix it, by implementing an ACDC tradeskill process and seeding the parts in various RK raids. There are others too, like segregating S42 into zones that can be completed separately in team-sized chunks for some items that eventually lead to getting an ACDC. Unfortunately, I can't see how running S42 with 30-45 people vs. 60 people or more solves my RL time constraint problem. I don't think I have missed anything here.

[Hacre]

I read your post. You're ignoring me. I want options for getting ACDC because I can't attend S42 raids. You're telling me how to raid it with 30-45 people. It's not even relevant to my inability to attend the raids? OK, I'm insane, but at least I can follow a conversation. Please enlighten me on how limiting the number of people for a S42 raid is going to change the fact that I can't find RL time to play for a specific time and duration to attend S42 raids please.

I want a Burden from VP. Make it happen, because I want it.

[Falkvinge]

42 was designed and implemented by me. Tell me what you don't like about it, in any sort of constructive manner, and we'll see if anything can be done to IMPROVE it.

I will take your management suggestions under consideration and seriously evaluate firing myself in the near future.

I can has your stuff then pwetty plox ?

[Scape]

[*] Remove spiritual bots from the loot table:

awwwww, please? =)[/list]

Id prefer a boost to spiritual armor, make it useful somehow, bu other then that great post.

[IHaveHugeNick]

The source of sec 42 problem is still loot related. ACDC doesn't have a 1% of epeen magic Burden of Competence used to have , plus its not that good anyway. Including even very decent loot from other encounters wasn't a solution. It needs more loot that's 42 specific.

Either that or you will still see it being zerged by 120 afk Rimorians.

[Obtena]

I want a Burden from VP. Make it happen, because I want it.

Sorry, I don't follow how that even pertains to me asking you how reducing the number of raiders in S42 allows me to attend S42 raids. I also don't see how that's relevant to the fact that many people can't attend raids for loot because of fundamental raid design limitations but OK, I get it, you lack some fundamental ability to comprehend and follow a conversation. Let me know when you're ready to participate in an adult manner. If not, you should let the adults talk.

[Hacre]

I don't see how that's relevant to the fact that many people can't attend raids for loot because of fundamental raid design limitations but OK, I get it, you lack some fundamental ability to follow a comprehend and follow a conversation. Let me know when you're ready to participate in an adult manner.

Not at all. YOU said YOU don't like S42 the way it is and YOU want alternative means to get an ACDC because YOU don't like what is required for an S42 raid to be successful.

It is far from unreasonable, in an MMORPG (in case you forgot, MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER), to need 30-40 people for what is still the only truly end game raid encounter in AO.

Which is where the relevance to my vitriolic comment comes in. -I- want a Burden, -I- don't like the way Pande is or what it requires so -I- want an alternative means to get it.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Spending time talking to your toilet seat would be more enjoyable then trying to talk some sense into Obtena.

90 people are willing to raid Pande each 9 hours.
At the same time no one is willing to raid 42.

What's the main problem with 42? Clearly it requires too much people to complete it. How could you not see it?

This just asks for Rocky Balboa "Huh?" face expression.