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Thread: Friday With Means - January 16th, 2009

  1. #1

    Friday With Means - January 16th, 2009

    The first thing to get out of the way is to apologize to the German Dimension for me not getting this done early enough to have it translated. My fault...not the community team.

    I am currently in Lund, Sweden again getting ready to attend a wedding. This was our first flight with both kids (20 months and 6 months old.) and I am still recovering. I had a sinus headache before I got on the plane that had increased amounts of fun as the pressure changes ensued. My wife tells me that my one bright pink eye is "hot". Thank god for abuseable over-the-counter pharmaceuticals. I'm doing my best..again please put the voodoo dolls away. Patience.

    Thanks to all that took the time to offer suggestions and viewpoints this week with regards to orbital strikes. There were many interesting suggestions involving radius of the strike. While the positional ideas were interesting and possibly something we can look into in other areas I did not want to alter things in a way that made the ability to root players a further advantage. There was a problem with the build process this week (Thursday and Friday) but there should be a new version of the Orbital Strike on TestLive this weekend.

    Orbital Strikes: The intention.

    Timing:
    Orbital Strikes should now execute in 5 seconds from the beginning of the effect where before they took 7 seconds. As they will no longer kill players the ability to get away and not be "spread out" is not as important. As it is no longer an instant death effect it should no longer be as easy to avoid. OS will still be available to orgs at the same rate vs. time. Should an increase or decrease be required we can adjust it later based on feedback.

    The Effect:
    Previously the OS would remove reflects and capped-hit you four times for 200000. This would kill anyone caught in it. The new mechanic on TestLive will make use of both suggestions from me (based on refinements from some of you) with both a large knockback effect and a smaller hit. Being caught in the OS will now: Hit you capped twice (Leaving you roughly 40% health), Knockback effect will move you approximately 120 meters from where you were hit, on landing you will be subject to a 30ish second/not removeable snare (to make it slightly more difficult to regroup efficiently.). The OS will effectively remove any roots currently running on the player.(NOTE: The root removing action is not in this version of TestLive but will be in the next.)

    Hopefully this will be effective in the goal of spreading out combat and reducing the importance of OS mechanics in Notum Wars pvp.

    The Booster:

    The version coming to test has a great deal more of the content in a more polished state. Thanks to all who have been such a great help on testLive to make this content so much better. I've moved my family to my wife's mother's house for next week so I can spend the crazy hours on this in a last push to get everything where is needs to be. Go Go TestLive!

    This week brought the first version of the "Xan Boss" into game. I'm looking forward to testing out the instance with some of you in the near future. All the rooms/playfields/missions etc are now there...now they need to be connnected together correctly with no gaps and I think we are in business!

    This week we did suffer a significant disappointment with knockback. It turns out that the "old" collision detection code was not particularly effective at "detecting collision" allowing for knocked back players to be shoved behind collision and even some times getting stuck in a permant "falling" state. This was bad. A small amount of research indicated thate correcting this issue would require a complete replacement of the collision code. This was very very bad. I wanted knockback in for one simple reason...it was going to be fun. It wasn't supposed to completely rebalance pvp for the future...more be a subtle yet fun addition. I was looking forward to seeing large groups of players flying away from a NT. I was looking forward to a Trader removing someone from their vicinity with their shotgun. The initial implementations of these nanos had a stun component...and this was enough to make just about everyone hate this basic idea itself. Either way I'm certain we could have removed the stun component, decreased the availability, or decreased/removed the associated snares and found a way to make this new feature a new fun addition to the game. Now because of technical (and practical) issues we are not going to get that chance. It would have been nice to add something truly new and different to the game. We tried something new and it didn't work...I'm not going to let it stop me from trying other strange ideas in the future. I'm sorry I wont get to distribute the knockback mechanic accross the professions. This was TestLive content..there was never a guarantee it was going in game...I hope this doesn't happen often...but I can guarantee that the choice between new features and introducing game-breaking bugs will always result in the same decision. Smoother will always be better.

    Thanks again for all who helped me in the last week!

    Off to a wedding in Copenhagen tomorrow!

    Colin "Means" Cragg
    Colin Cragg
    This "Means" Cake
    Past Game Director (2008-2011)

  2. #2
    First again! Will the new engine help with the collision problem?
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  3. #3
    Sounding good

  4. #4
    Woot no knockbacks!!!!

    But how does the knockback with OS work then? Don't the same problems exist with collision detection?
    Almadena

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    First again! Will the new engine help with the collision problem?
    Graphics engine != physics engine.

    And, uh, so, now that knockback isn't happening...does that mean everyone is getting fears? or are the new PvP nanos on hold entirely?
    Because Race Yalm

  6. #6
    How about those sync issues?
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Majoroutage_ View Post
    Graphics engine != physics engine.
    We are getting a game engine uprade, not a graphics engine upgrade.
    210/18 Solitus Ranged Advy RUSTINEL * GARRZ Soldier Solitus 166/21
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Autohead View Post
    How about those sync issues?
    Good question.
    Almadena

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    We are getting a game engine uprade, not a graphics engine upgrade.
    If you want to really nitpick, its a new rendering engine.

  10. #10
    I rather like the sound of "New OS".
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    We are getting a game engine uprade, not a graphics engine upgrade.
    I thought it was just the graphics engine being upgraded, not the whole game engine.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rewo View Post
    If you want to really nitpick, its a new rendering engine.
    heheh

    So will the new rendering engine solve the collision problem? (to further nitpick some folk don't see the removal of knockback as a problem, heheh)
    210/18 Solitus Ranged Advy RUSTINEL * GARRZ Soldier Solitus 166/21
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    The Smuggler's Tale
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  13. #13
    I like the new OS

    But yeah, what about the Synch...
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    So will the new rendering engine solve the collision problem?
    As I already said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Majoroutage_ View Post
    Graphics engine != physics engine.
    I highly doubt they're doing both at once, anyway.
    Because Race Yalm

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Majoroutage_ View Post
    Graphics engine != physics engine.

    And, uh, so, now that knockback isn't happening...does that mean everyone is getting fears? or are the new PvP nanos on hold entirely?
    Physics and graphics are sometimes related. In an old game like AO it's quite possible. So unless we get some data from Means we can only take bets.

    Edit : It's gonna asked 30 times to this thread anyway.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    First again!
    Your mother must be so proud...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustinel View Post
    Will the new engine help with the collision problem?
    It's a graphics engine.
    Formerly Vhab.
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  17. #17
    You're updating OSs which is all well and good but what about other aspects of LE like changes to LE missions, BSs, VP and completing OFAB sets (some profs missing back/shoulders)? Any plans regarding that stuff you could let us in on?

  18. #18
    It's been said by other far more knowledgeable people on the forums that a new physics engine is -possible- with the new rendering engine FC are using.

    I have no idea if it'll happen that way or not though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  19. #19
    ok so a combination of 1 and 2 that if you have taken damage the chances are you are falling. That makes OS a nasty finisher and changes the implimentation.

    A problem i see. A capped hit on a mech is very much the same as a capped hit on a player. A mech has a significant amount of hp than a PC this strengthens mechs even if they do get knocked back and rooted. But the 5 second firing could be a step in the right direction.

    Number two: Knockback. After seeing first hand how you had it running in age of conan i fully understand why you would want to see it in AO. I hope this isnt gone for good and that something can come of it eventually but somethings you just cant do...

    Now its time for a rant.

    Earlier today a sector 42 raid happened around 10 am EST. We got off to a strong start as always but as we left east to get west and north going the west and north raid forces entirely crashed. By the time they realized what happened east had already attacked a tower which triggered the 30 minute timer.

    Even with a GM's help to give us access again due to the crash we really had no chance to kill off north and west especially when the north raidforce vanished. It was a valliant attempt but it was again another side of an unfinished product being put out before it was due. Means by the gods this raid can not continue to suffer these kind of setbacks. This is a supremely difficult raid and under the best conditions is a royal pain in the ass! You DESIGNED IT THAT WAY AT OUR REQUEST! The linkdead/disconnects that happen to raid forces completely shatter raids in this area. It really ruins the fun of a very difficult Raid.

    Please please figure out what is causing this and FIX IT!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    It's been said by other far more knowledgeable people on the forums that a new physics engine is -possible- with the new rendering engine FC are using.
    Of course it's possible, but I doubt they'll do both at once. We're already seen shots of the new rendering engine being used alongside players with the old engine. Doing both at once will extend development time and make troubleshooting harder.
    Because Race Yalm

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