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Thread: Friday with Means - May 22nd, 2009

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterva View Post
    wow, that must have been a pretty tough decision to basically start all over on the graphics engine. I fully support the move though. Good luck with it, and hopefully it will come this side of Christmas! (tm)

    Since I know I'm such a precious favorite of yours, I just want to say hats off to you Means. I have to say it, I think AO would have probably died by now if it were still in the hands of some of the previous GD's. I'm persistently impressed at what a good job you've been doing, both with communicating so transparently with the community, and with making the tough decisions like switching hosts/engines, and re-evaluating long standing problems and gripes.

    Keep it up!
    I just have to QFT this.. well put.

  2. #62
    Awww, poor Ogre.

    Ah well, things happen.
    Formerly Vhab.
    Once upon a time ruled a server. And then sold out. Sorry.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    Awww, poor Ogre.

    Ah well, things happen.
    Pff how dare you shed tears over an Ogre! It isn't like it was a troll!

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    Pff how dare you shed tears over an Ogre! It isn't like it was a troll!
    I like Ogre

    ps. Dear Linux users, I pitty the fool that would have to code a current gen graphics engine in OpenGL.
    Formerly Vhab.
    Once upon a time ruled a server. And then sold out. Sorry.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Rerolll View Post
    Personally, I am crossing my fingers for more Vaporware.
    Why on earth would you hope for more vaporware?!
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    I like Ogre

    ps. Dear Linux users, I pitty the fool that would have to code a current gen graphics engine in OpenGL.
    Why? A current Gen OpenGL engine would basically be one of the more marketable engines out considering the fact that it is considerably faster, more stable and cross platform. Direct X is the nightmare that just won't go the feck away. Much like winblows..

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm518 View Post
    XP 2 or Windows vista

    1 gb of ram 6600 Geforce with 128 mem

    3ghz p4 or better 32 gb of space

    Honestly an 8800 GT is CHEAP

    You can upgrade now and save yourselves some headaches and be ready for this.
    Note that AoC also uses many high resolution multi layer textures that AO won't have, meaning the system requirements should be lower.

    Also, don't go recommending Geforce 8800 series when that series is dead and discontinued, and buying it would mean paying more for an old product than a new and better product could give you. For example a 9800GT is 25% less expensive and performs 25% better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    Why? A current Gen OpenGL engine would basically be one of the more marketable engines out considering the fact that it is considerably faster, more stable and cross platform. Direct X is the nightmare that just won't go the feck away. Much like winblows..
    This is usualy what people who don't know what they're talking about say.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    Why? A current Gen OpenGL engine would basically be one of the more marketable engines out considering the fact that it is considerably faster, more stable and cross platform. Direct X is the nightmare that just won't go the feck away. Much like winblows..
    Try programming a graphics engine in OpenGL and Directx 10.
    The latter is like making love. The first felt more like chopping wood with bare hands.
    Formerly Vhab.
    Once upon a time ruled a server. And then sold out. Sorry.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Also, don't go recommending Geforce 8800 series when that series is dead and discontinued, and buying it would mean paying more for an old product than a new and better product could give you. For example a 9800GT is 25% less expensive and performs 25% better.
    If we are talking about 8800GT (G92 based) Vs 9800GT, they are completely the same, it's just that 9800GT cards might overclock better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    If we are talking about 8800GT (G92 based) Vs 9800GT, they are completely the same, it's just that 9800GT cards might overclock better.
    A 9800GT (G92B) has 128 stream processors vs 112 and 64 texture units vs 56 on a 8800GT and can be clocked higher. It's more equivalent of a 8800GTS 512. It's still stupid to pay 25% more for a 8 series.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; May 21st, 2009 at 22:56:46.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    A 9800GT (G92B) has 128 stream processors vs 112 and 64 texture units vs 56 on a 8800GT and can be clocked higher. It's more equivalent of a 8800GTS 512.
    Dunno about your G92B model, I'm looking at nVidia's official 9800GT specs.

    NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT specs.

    It's still stupid to pay 25% more for a 8 series.
    It sure is, if you are buying a "new" card.
    Last edited by Klod; May 21st, 2009 at 23:10:16.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    Try programming a graphics engine in OpenGL and Directx 10.
    The latter is like making love. The first felt more like chopping wood with bare hands.
    I have participated in the development of a game engine being written exclusively in Open GL. It is only as you say if you are inept at programming or lazy.. Direct X is still simply a nightmare that won't go away.. don't care how drag n drop friendly it is

  13. #73
    That is nice and dandy that AO is going over to an engine that is supported by FC, which means that AO will continue to thrive and grow potentially as long as AoC, The Secret World project etc.

    But my concern arises due to the fact that I'm playing on a laptop that has handled everything I've wanted to do (everything from 3dsmax, to Eve online, even the now dead Tabula Rasa) just fine using an ATI x1150, which uses shader v2. Now does this mean I will no longer be able to play? Because in looking at the reqs for AoC, Ive seen some places say 2, 3 and even 2.5. And I figure since they will be using the same engine, the reqs would be the same if not lower.

    Thanks, and hopefully looking forward to the new engine!
    Last edited by RunningMirage; May 21st, 2009 at 23:47:53.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    I have participated in the development of a game engine being written exclusively in Open GL. It is only as you say if you are inept at programming or lazy.. Direct X is still simply a nightmare that won't go away.. don't care how drag n drop friendly it is
    You can only throw x amount of flat functions at stuff until it becomes a horrible mess.
    Drag and drop has little to do with it. A proper design of the API does have everything to do with it.
    Not to mention how much fun it is to check against a zillion different extensions. Multiple doing the same thing, but slightly different and various hardware supporting only 1 of the 2.
    Last edited by Vhaxx; May 21st, 2009 at 23:58:10.
    Formerly Vhab.
    Once upon a time ruled a server. And then sold out. Sorry.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    Dunno about your G92B model, I'm looking at nVidia's official 9800GT specs.

    NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT specs.

    It sure is, if you are buying a "new" card.
    nVidia needs to update their site. Those would be the first generation 9800GT that were phased out. But then, nVidia cards are a total mess right now with there being multiple models where a handful of versions exist. The 9800GT has 2, apparently, which I didn't know, I've only seen reviews of the 128sp version, the 9800GTX+ is also called GTS 250, the GTX 260 has a 192sp version, a 216sp version and a newer 216sp version made on a smaller fabrication method... then there's the GTX 275 that outperforms the 260, including the 216sp version, and can be clocked to outperform the GTX 285, but it costs marginally more than a 260, making the 260 a silly purchase, and less enough than the 285 that the 285 become a silly purchase :| wtf?

    Anyway, I would not buy a used graphics card... people selling them are likely to be enthusiasts, who go for the best in the market, and enthusiasts are also likely to abuse their hardware to get more performance out of it... but then, I am an enthusiast, so of course I wouldn't buy used.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Why on earth would you hope for more vaporware?!
    Cause he doesn't know what the term means and just threw it out in an attempt to look competent? Or he really wants more of it. *shrugs*
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  17. #77
    TO: Means or MacroSun

    when you convert to the DW engine from Ogre, will you be using the existing textures and meshes that are currently in the client database or will you be using newer format?

    if newer format, care to share what type of format?
    I'd hate to write my database website all over again to handle the meshes, but I can do it if needed.
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    You can only throw x amount of flat functions at stuff until it becomes a horrible mess.
    Drag and drop has little to do with it. A proper design of the API does have everything to do with it.
    Not to mention how much fun it is to check against a zillion different extensions. Multiple doing the same thing, but slightly different and various hardware supporting only 1 of the 2.
    you have got to be kidding... lol.. funny stuff..

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyphos View Post
    TO: Means or MacroSun

    when you convert to the DW engine from Ogre, will you be using the existing textures and meshes that are currently in the client database or will you be using newer format?

    if newer format, care to share what type of format?
    I'd hate to write my database website all over again to handle the meshes, but I can do it if needed.
    AO's original engine is Dreamworld. just a much older version.

    the original problem they claimed was, there was so much tweaking to newer versions of it for aoc, they couldnt just backport it to ao. hence why they tried to go with ogre. infact, for a while before aoc's release, its engine was dubbed "the anarchy online 2 engine" by many articles.

    seems they were wrong.

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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethyrguard View Post
    you have got to be kidding... lol.. funny stuff..
    as much as i'd love to see more opengl, and thus, more cross-platform 3d acceleration stuff.. clearly dx has to be more friendly to develop for. else it would have been a fad, or had limited success. (remember Glide? )

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