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Thread: Friday with Means - June 5th, 2009

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    Yes.
    The question was rhetorical

    Anyway, I did a little thinking (yes, seriously) and can't help but see a number of adjustments with at least the same repercussions as stun proc removal in the future (think AS adjustments, etc). Time will tell if people will actually be able to stomach them, whatever these adjustments will be. I'm certain this isn't the worst whine to be seen.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post

    First off: Yes, the stun procs have been "nerfed".

    I understand the "balanceing" of this for crats, since some of the last LE proces
    are landing does stuns to much. But what about shades? They have almost the same
    proc stuns as crats have/had .. Are shades suppose to be the dominate pvp class?, and
    we all are forced to make shades to do pvp? or even for pvm stuns


    More roots in pvp is no what we need...it make things worse.. Crats have roots why put that in proc to?
    Last edited by Zonaxo; Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:24:38.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    The question was rhetorical

    Anyway, I did a little thinking (yes, seriously) and can't help but see a number of adjustments with at least the same repercussions as stun proc removal in the future (think AS adjustments, etc). Time will tell if people will actually be able to stomach them, whatever these adjustments will be. I'm certain this isn't the worst whine to be seen.
    I also see that Nano resist will be looked at, so they are a real defense than just a joke

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    The whine is strong in this thread. The Crats that were rolled because of stun procs are certainly coming out of the woodwork.

    No decent Crat needs stun procs. No decent raid force needs stun procs.

    The future for Crats looks pretty bright right now. Those too short sighted to see past their precious stun procs, do us all a favour and roll something else, or be quiet and wait and see.
    QFT!

    All the whining about something that hasn't even been seen yet. Stuns just made the crat nothing more than a hack to stop mobs attacking, incarnate in a toon. Someone finds a cheat where they press a few buttons to make a mob not attack you, someone finds a crat to make a mob not attack you. Not even sound saame! For cheap crat insurance go to comparethemeerkat.com. Siiiimples.
    Frobius -220 Omni Soldier, Chocolate Milkman and layabout. Fro's Shiznit
    Schwad - 220 Omni Doc (ph34r t3h 4fr0!) Schwad's Shiznit
    Drunknmunky - Some random MP..
    Beeyatch - Mongo!!!


    General of Hells Heroes - Pwning for phatz!

    The infinite is possible at Zombo Com!!!

    Omgz! l33t!

  5. #125
    1. Stun procs need to be nerfed. Kthxbye.

    2. I enjoy watching how everyone is saying it will help Crats to present their problems and ask for improvements. As if ANY of you will start supporting those requests now, lol.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Mailana View Post
    Ok, so youre nerfing pvm crats' primary LE benefit, time to give us something in return. In exchange for this nerf, fix vp in le mission rewards, such that pvm and pvp give equal rewards, 1k vp for a win at 210+ for example.

    Seriously, I dont see why I should keep paying for the pvm game I play if pvper considerations are going to trump my concerns every single damn time just because they whine louder on the forums. If there were really enough of them to model your business around them you wouldnt need pvmers in the bs ffs.
    I strongly disagree that stun procs are strictly a PvP problem -- their stupid overpoweredness has been ruining the PvM challenge for everyone since they were introduced. Sure, it's nice that the boss doesn't fight back if you just want to grab the loot and go, but after the initial "lol, he's not even attacking", there is no fun to be had in such a fight.

    That being said, I sure wouldn't mind actually useful VP rewards from LE missions, preferably without having to loot every damn mob. Don't see how that's connected to stun proc removal, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    When the stun gets changed to a root I guess it will mean no more alb for melee again. Means going old school making alb range only again. It was nice while it lasted.
    "Ranged only" albtraum was fixed when they reduced the stupidly high area nukes to something that can be outhealed. Any residual "ranged only" would be mostly from people getting used to doing it in one particular way and not wanting to try something new. When a friend was farming for a bracer, I used to tank the keeper for him on my enf, while he played his dual-logged soldier and doc. 3 characters, no crat in sight, melee tank, and honestly a fairly easy fight.
    Hlep gnak!

  7. #127
    My crat is TL5 and has no PvP experience, so have patience and help me out understanding the tradeoff offered please.

    I understand the argument that current stuns were OP and am somewhat sympathetic to it.

    But what i like about them is that they appeared to compensate for having very little defensive/healing capabilities. No heals, no Cocoon, just the CiB perks.

    To have a Root proc replace the Stun proc has me scratching my head. The rooted mob will still hit me even when i'm a long distance away...i go further away and the pets will return to me...i stay close in so my aura hits the pet/mob and aggro flicker will send me to reclaim.

    Wouldn't it be better to have more heal or defensive perks?

    What am i missing?

    Saw
    Sawbones2 220/22 NM Doc, General of Pantheon
    Rootntootm 220/25 Soli Crat
    Rockmsockm 212/19 Trox Enfo
    Swaptioneer 175/13 Opi Tradah
    Sliderule 134/11 Soli Engie

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    The question was rhetorical

    Anyway, I did a little thinking (yes, seriously) and can't help but see a number of adjustments with at least the same repercussions as stun proc removal in the future (think AS adjustments, etc). Time will tell if people will actually be able to stomach them, whatever these adjustments will be. I'm certain this isn't the worst whine to be seen.
    I also see that Nano resist will be looked at, so they are a real defense than just a joke

  9. #129
    Well i am going to level my shade now then, since they got stun procs + stun + more stuns and some more stuns and nanobots + heals. evades/dof . ohh wait.. thats ..

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Zonaxo View Post
    Well i am going to level my shade now then, since they got stun procs + stun + more stuns and some more stuns and nanobots + heals. evades/dof . ohh wait.. thats ..
    we get it... you cant live without a professions killing a defenseless player.

    your epeen must be huge.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Neista View Post
    defense is the issue and the more DD we get the weaker we are in pvm because we pull agg off our pets who already have major problems holding it...
    Did you even read the original post?

    "we follow this up in "Coming Soon" updates to all pets for all professions to make them more in line with the defensive abilities currently enjoyed by players. Not being able to run away from the pets of the near future is going to be very significant."

    Tbh, if players need to kite those pets around to stand a chance of surviving.. that sounds like pretty good DD on the pets, and a much easier time to keep aggro from the crat.

    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    2. I enjoy watching how everyone is saying it will help Crats to present their problems and ask for improvements. As if ANY of you will start supporting those requests now, lol.
    Actually I will, as long as they're not insanely overpowered (triple AS Tiger, instakill button, etc).

    ------

    @ all the idiot crats whining about Shade stunprocs... Shade stunprocs go into the normal Calm school just like Living Enbalming. They are resisted by bosses, so do not ruin PvM. They are resistable by players (Might of the Revenant, Unstunnable, etc). They are removable by players (Free Movement). All those rules did not apply to Bureaucrat stunprocs making them grossly overpowered, both PvP and PvM.
    Last edited by Lupusceleri; Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:55:46.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Sawbones2 View Post
    My crat is TL5 and has no PvP experience, so have patience and help me out understanding the tradeoff offered please.

    I understand the argument that current stuns were OP and am somewhat sympathetic to it.

    But what i like about them is that they appeared to compensate for having very little defensive/healing capabilities. No heals, no Cocoon, just the CiB perks.

    To have a Root proc replace the Stun proc has me scratching my head. The rooted mob will still hit me even when i'm a long distance away...i go further away and the pets will return to me...i stay close in so my aura hits the pet/mob and aggro flicker will send me to reclaim.

    Wouldn't it be better to have more heal or defensive perks?

    What am i missing?

    Saw
    Well it looks like crats will be getting new pets and shizzle so im guessing agro flicker will be less of a problem when the pets dish out more dmg...

    @ Whoever that said that crat evades dont work... Me and Malaxia pretty much disproved that afew times over afew weeks ago... They work weary well, you just don't notice when FA etc completely miss and you only see when they hit hence its all in your head -.^
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Messiah has spoken.

  13. #133
    Good job with making both PvP and PvM mre interesting

    /dreaming on

    As you are at it, could you nerf /assist <name> aswell? :P

    /assist and /assist %t should stay same but removal of /assist <name> would make game bit more interesting. Would be great on mass PvP and would make some assist Q zerg raids more interesting aswell

    /dreaming off
    /flameshield on

  14. #134
    Everyone who is saying "Do I need to roll shade to PvP now", thanks, you just made my day
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Good going nerfing the stunprocs.
    Yet once again, stun procs have NOT been nerfed.
    They have been simply REMOVED.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    they are getting new love in return for the stunproc nerf!
    Oh, you mean the perks that every1 in the group can use and pistol that everyone else can use?
    So no, specifically WE are not.
    Moreover, imo the new changes wont benefit us that much.

    Why would any decent crat change the decent stable decent Tiger AS for a sucky one(pistol compared) that comes with the new pistol, when the stunprocs that were the only reason to still keep pistols on are now getting removed and replaced with a lolworthy(8/5 sec? heh) feature?

    And if the reason for the change you mean the new perks, ill laugh again.
    On some it wont land at all, on some the perks just wont matter at all, and to get a decent landrate we'd have to go all out ar which means nerfing nanoskills (and evades?) thus the last pieces of CC tools that we currently have...going even further away from what a crat should be...
    Last edited by Koizumi; Jun 6th, 2009 at 12:51:40.
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    1. Stun procs need to be nerfed. Kthxbye.
    I agree! Yes, they really needed to be nerfed, obviously were too long, and im pretty sure that every1 could agree on that.
    Nerfed....but not deleted...

    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
    I also see that Nano resist will be looked at, so they are a real defense than just a joke
    Oh yes, hopefully yes...
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Koizumi View Post
    and to get a decent landrate we'd have to go all out ar which means nerfing nanoskills thus the last pieces of CC tools that we currently have...going even further away from what a crat should be...
    This differs from a Tiger setup how exactly?
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    This differs from a Tiger setup how exactly?
    Perk a crat? As a crat? Or a fixer? Or MA with perks up? Or adv?
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Koizumi View Post
    Perk a crat? As a crat?
    Learn to read. You're whining about what's needed to make a good pistol setup, when in earlier paragraph you sanction the use of a Tiger.

    Tiger crats use pretty much the same gear as a pistol crat would need to maximise AR.

    Pistol is another -option- an option that we never had before. If you're so worried about high evade professions, well stick with Tiger.
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  20. #140
    means,

    im confused as to why you would instruct your team to roll out a skill removal while promising compensation in "coming soon" updates without some kind of a timetable. I think you've been a part of the community long enough to realize that there would be a backlash to a course of action like this.

    I see you and your team as having 2 options here. the one you took, and the one you didnt take. Allow me to explain...

    We've already covered the path you and your team chose to take, but i'd like to discuss the one you didnt take for a moment.

    Waiting....

    Surely you understand that waiting to implement the "coming soon" fixes at the same time as the skill removal would have lessened this kind of response from the playerbase by an order of magnitude.

    We are in an economic global decline where people's discretionary entertainment income is half what it was a year ago. I think going forward with ANY decision that could garner a negative response from your playerbase is, lightly putting it, potentially hazardous to your business at best.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't balance your title. Please, by all means (no pun intended), balance your game. I completely understand you are trying to please the largest majority of your customers. But you dont want to upset your bureaucrat playerbase either. You want all of them to be happy with the product. Be it a bureaucrat player or any other profession. You want them to encourage their firiends and family to subscribe to the game etc..

    I'm just stating that perhaps you should consider the advice of an old saying to insure that kind of response.

    all good things come to those who wait.

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