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Thread: Friday with Means - June 5th, 2009

  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Actually I will, as long as they're not insanely overpowered (triple AS Tiger, instakill button, etc).
    Yep. And translation from forumish to english is: you will cry a river about anything that could be a possible threat.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post

    First off: Yes, the stun procs have been "nerfed".

    Have a great weekend everyone!
    i just wanted to point out, you never mentioned doubles or triples at all, imo they needed fixing more the stun procs, by far.
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    considering how many ranged advies omni has, clan did quite a job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciex View Post
    Ive rolled NT and rarely make it longer than 3-4s vs fixers.
    Talking whats OP and whats not by people who have never really played so told OP profession is just lame.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    Learn to read. You're whining about what's needed to make a good pistol setup, when in earlier paragraph you sanction the use of a Tiger.
    No. Im complaining that for stunproc 'nerf' we(and quite a few others) get to fully perk PM and get an AS pistol.
    But the problem is, that the only reason to go pistols were stun procs that now dont exist...
    Thus, the reason is gone and our 'option' is now obsolete...
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  4. #144
    Lets nerf GTH and borrow reflect while we're at it!
    Frobius -220 Omni Soldier, Chocolate Milkman and layabout. Fro's Shiznit
    Schwad - 220 Omni Doc (ph34r t3h 4fr0!) Schwad's Shiznit
    Drunknmunky - Some random MP..
    Beeyatch - Mongo!!!


    General of Hells Heroes - Pwning for phatz!

    The infinite is possible at Zombo Com!!!

    Omgz! l33t!

  5. #145
    I'm glad to see that people are trying to improve the end content of game. I think stun procs were over powered. True nerfing of their time duration and landing ease would have been a great addition to the game: However turning the stun procs into a root is a sloppy fix.

    I have to keep reminding myself that at some mysterious time in the future other 'quick fixes' will sort things. (ussually involving hours and hours of waiting on LFT for a team that may or may not form) I have a lot of pity for the people who will no doubt feel cheated for all the time and creds they've put into their crats.

    I'm just glad my crat is not my main 220 toon. As it is I do feel cheated out of a lot of time and effort I put into building a toon to help my org accomplish smaller raids as the player base in game has shrunk, As well as trying to build a pvp toon to try and help stop the massive zerg forces we face daily on bs if you are on clan side.

    I've played anarchy enough years I'm not going to let this make me quit the game. But I can't help but feel like crats have been pretty short changed in this.

  6. #146
    I can agree that removing/nerfing stun procs was a necessary step, but it raises 2 big problems in my mind.

    1) makes pistol a lot less attractive. Bow crats will probably remain popular as things are now.
    2) hurts crat defense (and pvp offense against healers) significantly

    Simply giving crat pets better AR and damage doesn't solve either problem.

    Perhaps a combined tape with -1200 inits and a new nuke with a faster recharge (to get some more hits in during the +nanodmg proc) for pistol users only? Also, if pets are supposed to become a reliable part of crat offense in pvp, I think they could use either a big bump to NR or some % resists to things like ubt so they get disabled less frequently. No amount of unremovable roots are going to make rooted/snared/calmed/ubted/drained pets overcome the AS from a Tiger.

    Edit: just saw the new AS pistol nerfs. That + stun procs removed? Tiger crats no longer have to worry about farming the stuff to switch pistol, lol.
    Last edited by Micandy; Jun 6th, 2009 at 14:55:04.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamin View Post
    Anything that comes out of a tube and makes a boom = bazooka

  7. #147
    One alternative they could consider is moving all procs into the nano lines they belong to. If procs were removable and resistable they wouldn't be an issue in pvp or pvm.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    The whine is strong in this thread. The Crats that were rolled because of stun procs are certainly coming out of the woodwork.
    I rolled well well before stun procs, I rolled when our toolkit half worked before the ridiculous amounts of NR added and the innate resistances to our toolkit. We are an enigma to the devs and what irritates me is their complete lack of vision when putting the things in in the first place.

    Stuns put in and stacking, stun stacking removed, stun duration threatened to be shortened, stuns finally turned into roots. AoE fears developed, AoE fears presented to the community and enough professionals whining they got nerfed. Single fears put in, single fears limited to BS. Player charms developed, player charms presented to the community, player charms removed and used only on the 12m instance instead. AS pistol developed, AS pistol hits testlive... AS pistol removed.

    See where I am going here, promises, half implemented, finally nerfed... every single fix to the crat profs has never lasted more than 2 patches. 70% of the devs time at the minute seems to be repairing past mistakes and yes that has stopped them fixing our toolkits.

    If you are naive enough to believe that any future fixes will be made that will last beyond the QQ then you are letting yourself in for a few disappointments. I would put money on the fact that the 200% nano damage proc won't last when your AS crats are capping AS, capping nuke, capping another AS and the fight is over in 11 seconds... Without pets.

    Now if stuns are so OP, remove them from everyone. We only had what troxes had and I am not understanding why it is OP for me but not OP for someone with a bone breaking alpha.

    If our toolkit is OP then it isn't stuns that caused it, it is Aimed Shot. Please put a profession != bureaucrat on all Aimed Shot weapons, that will ssolve the problem without removing stuns. Aimed Shot + Perks + Nukes + Pets = OP. Screwing around with stuns is a nice simple fix that kept most professions + the PvP crats happy. Nice easy to implement fix that cuts down on the incessant whining.

    I couldnt give a toss about stuns to be honest, they never really helped me. What concerns me is the half baked ideas that don't work and now it has been months since Means promised us something, which never materialised.

    So forgive my cynicism but this is what, the 2nd FWM in 3 weeks dedicated purely to crats, someone had a bad experience with a crat once I think.

    Also, everyone that is supporting the work done at FC this week which according to this FWM was purely nerfing crats, apparently nothing else happened, think on this. Was crat stuns THE most important problem in game? A good use of resource?

    I personally cannot wait to see which half baked ill thought through 'fix' is next.

  9. #149
    Stun procs changed to roots...mmkay I can live with that. Changing a 15s stun to an 8s root, on presumably the same land rate is pretty big nerf though. If the durations stay at 8s and 5s, then the landing percentage of them should go up. If the landing percentage stays the same, the durations of the roots should stay like the old stun procs at 10s and 15s.

    So we will soon have 3 root procs, single at 5s, single at 8s, and aoe at 8s (soon to be nerfed from 15s).

    Now change GTH to 10-20 seconds, 1 minute NSD's used to have a 160% NR check, decent recharge, and have removal perks...
    Last edited by Mountaingoat; Jun 6th, 2009 at 16:44:35.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Did you even read the original post?

    "we follow this up in "Coming Soon" updates to all pets for all professions to make them more in line with the defensive abilities currently enjoyed by players. Not being able to run away from the pets of the near future is going to be very significant."
    Yes, i just dont believe it, also i would appreciate the fix coming at the same time as the nerf, not being promised 'soon' (tm). I Also dont read any words about making pets hold aggro better thus actually enabling us to use the new improved nuke in a non-raid pvm situation (assuming it hasnt been nerfed by the time these alleged pet improvments actually appear (assuming they ever do)).
    Last edited by Neista; Jun 6th, 2009 at 16:56:57.
    ALTS: Alienhunter, Moonglum, Quellist, Quellcrist, Jesharet

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by DePreach View Post
    Now if stuns are so OP, remove them from everyone. We only had what troxes had and I am not understanding why it is OP for me but not OP for someone with a bone breaking alpha.
    Most stuns aren't over powered though because they have a very short duration, normally 4 seconds at most, and can be removed, on top of that the nano based stuns have twice the recharge of the stun duration, so the choice to use them or not is an important one, finally most nano based stuns have 110-160% NR check on them, making them rather easy to resist in most cases, still leaving the caster locked in recharge.

    As far as shade stuns go, they only last 4 seconds, they are easy to remove, and the nano skills required to cast the better ones are ridiculously high, they also prevent another line of nanos being used so they do come with a drawback.

    Crat stuns lasting 10 or 15 seconds that cannot be removed and work on anything/everything are ridiculous and completely overpowered, the only way I would support the stuns to stay as stuns is if they were put in the same line as all the other stuns, making them removable as well as not working on bosses, and their duration being reduced to 4 seconds at most, then they wouldn't be Overpowered, to be honest that would probably be a better solution that making them roots as far as I'm concerned but it's not really my call.

    P.S. Though personally I don't like bosses being completely immune to the normal stuns considering the costs of using them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DePreach View Post
    Also, everyone that is supporting the work done at FC this week which according to this FWM was purely nerfing crats, apparently nothing else happened, think on this. Was crat stuns THE most important problem in game? A good use of resource?

    I personally cannot wait to see which half baked ill thought through 'fix' is next.
    Actually that's that was mentioned this week but not all that was done, if you look in the Database rip however you will see a lot of work has been done to rename all the Arul Saba bracers as well as the Reanimator cloaks, something the community has been wanting for a long time and something that makes these items a hell of a lot more user friendly, especially for searching for the bracers on GMS.
    Ebondevil - Omni Level 220 Agent on Atlantean, Feel free to contact me any time if you have questions, in game or out.
    Varinox - Omni Level 220 Meta-Physicist on Atlantean
    Yamarra - Omni Level 150 Shade on Atlantean

    Feel free to send me any tell in game or a Private Message if you require anything.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Yep. And translation from forumish to english is: you will cry a river about anything that could be a possible threat.


    Maybe you're just a little bit pessimistic Nick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neista View Post
    Yes, i just dont believe it, also i would appreciate the fix coming at the same time as the nerf, not being promised 'soon' (tm).
    Agreed, then again 18.1 only just got repatched to Testlive. It is VERY far away from making Live as it is now I'd say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neista View Post
    I Also dont read any words about making pets hold aggro better thus actually enabling us to use the new improved nuke in a non-raid pvm situation (assuming it hasnt been nerfed by the time these alleged pet improvments actually appear (assuming they ever do)).
    If Means et al makes the pets good enough for me to have to kite them, one of the following things has to happen:

    - Pets do extremely much more damage.
    - Pets do a debuff - not likely.
    - Pets get stunprocs .

    More damage == better at holding agg last time I checked?
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    Actually I will, as long as they're not insanely overpowered (triple AS Tiger, instakill button, etc).
    There you have it people. Double AS Tigress is pretty reasonable thing to ask for. Anything more then that would be OP'd.
    Proud member of Shadow Ops
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP setup
    Hidden message
    Quote Originally Posted by Klod View Post
    You won.
    Making them feel special since 2008.



  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    If Means et al makes the pets good enough for me to have to kite them, one of the following things has to happen:

    - Pets do extremely much more damage.
    - Pets do a debuff - not likely.
    - Pets get stunprocs .

    More damage == better at holding agg last time I checked?
    Personally i am reading it as more like pet AR increased but then as you can tell i'm a cynic...
    ALTS: Alienhunter, Moonglum, Quellist, Quellcrist, Jesharet

  15. #155
    First!

    ...to post:

    Stun procs
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Neista View Post
    Personally i am reading it as more like pet AR increased but then as you can tell i'm a cynic...
    Even if only AR increasing would be the fix - I doubt that'll be the only change - adding a load of extra AAO still translates into a load of extra damage.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  17. #157
    instead of joining in the bandwagon on the whole argument thing whether stuns are overpowered or not, and all that jazz, let me just say.... im all for easy mode. not sure how ppl are rooting for making the game more difficult than it already is. sometimes u just cant even do an instance if u cant find a crat because you dont have 40 ppl willing to do it at any given time. ur lucky if u can fill a team. this goes back to the old "anarchy is dying". first of all, im against turning the stun into a root, just is bad, but id like to see a cooldown, that would be much more effective, and perhaps a shortening of the duration, but certainly NOT turning into a root. i think that makes much more sense. but secondly, even if the stun is a bandaid, its a very helpful bandaid, from the collectives point of view. now, instead of "we need a crat" its, "we need 8 more ppl". and thats bull**** cuz its already hard to find ppl for stuff. but i give u an A for effort means. ur heart is in the right place.

  18. #158
    [11:08] <Means> Mr.T and Shatner are not "AO" enough
    [11:09] <Technogen> Yes they are, they have geek cred
    [11:09] <ShadowGod> shater might of been
    [11:09] <ShadowGod> shatner even
    [11:09] <ShadowGod> i know... brent spiner!
    [11:09] <Technogen> THERE!
    [11:09] <Technogen> That's perfect
    [11:09] <Windguaerd> Also we can come up with creative, nerdy, trendy, hip, modern, old skool, any type of commercial if we wanted to
    [11:10] <Technogen> Well, we could do it fine, but ALL content has to be from within AO, no 3rd party models or images
    [11:10] <Windguaerd> Who has not seen the player-made video with the Beast being rushed by a ton of players which made that scene look EPIC
    [11:10] <Hacre> get Patrick Stewart
    [11:10] <Hacre> he's epic geek cred
    [11:10] <Technogen> Since the content is from within AO, fc already owens the rights to it, so there would be no legal problems for Means to deal with.
    [11:11] <Means> I would want Steven Hawking for sure.
    [11:11] <Hacre> hell yeah
    [11:11] <Technogen> HEHE!
    [11:11] <ShadowGod> hawkings in a mech....
    [11:11] <Technogen> "In the future, I kick majors heck ass yo."
    [11:11] <Means> saying "You can't perk me bitches!" in that automated voice
    [11:11] <ShadowGod> he'd totally pwn Mr T's elf or whatever
    [11:11] <Aythem> what AO mob is shortened to DD ?
    [11:11] <Hacre> "This. Is. How. I. Would. Like. The. U-Nee-Verse. To. Be."
    [11:11] <Technogen> HAHAHAH

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    Stun procs changed to roots...mmkay I can live with that. Changing a 15s stun to an 8s root, on presumably the same land rate is pretty big nerf though. If the durations stay at 8s and 5s, then the landing percentage of them should go up. If the landing percentage stays the same, the durations of the roots should stay like the old stun procs at 10s and 15s.

    So we will soon have 3 root procs, single at 5s, single at 8s, and aoe at 8s (soon to be nerfed from 15s).

    Now change GTH to 10-20 seconds, 1 minute NSD's used to have a 160% NR check, decent recharge, and have removal perks...
    Means said pets would be reworked to become more a threat. So wait to see the combo root + pet before asking changes.
    220 opi RK1 keeper § 220 opi RK1 Doc § 220 opi RK2 Fixer
    Quote Originally Posted by Enno Rehling View Post
    We usually call it WTF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rerolll View Post
    Well...when a momma envy and a daddy envy love each other very much...well...ask your parents.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Graftmage View Post
    Can you at least tone UP the root proc durations?

    8 second long ROOT is a joke.
    Why did you nerf existing ROOT proc from 15 seconds to 8 anyway?
    ? Most pvp fights are over in 8 seconds. Many in 2 or 3. I could see a root nano needing to be longer but a root process... maybe if it only fired off as often as an MA's dimach - say 11 minutes at fastest, then the root process should be longer.

    What's the recycle time on the new crat process?

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