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Thread: Friday with Means - July 3rd, 2009 - German Server and AO Learning Curve

  1. #1

    Funcom employee Friday with Means - July 3rd, 2009 - German Server and AO Learning Curve

    With the excitement of the last few weeks I have not managed to communicate the results of the survey sent to the German dimension concerning the future of their server. Here are the questions and the results. It is interesting that over 50% of the players who received the survey took the time to complete it...this is an enormous percentage for something like that and makes me certain we are getting a good sample of the true opinions of the German AO population. All the questions asked in the survey will be listed here with the results in the interest of clear and open communication.

    1. How many active accounts do you have?

    None - 13.49%
    One - 44.1%
    Two - 29.51%
    Three or More - 12.88%


    This question was asked as a general view of what kind of players generally populated the German dimension.

    2. Which kind of subscription do you use?

    Full Subscription - 89.45%
    Only Shadowlands - 10.55%


    Again this was asked to find out more about the player base in general. I was personally surprised that only 1 in 10 players was using the cheaper subscription model.

    3. Do you play other characters regularly on other dimensions? (Dimensions other than the German server.)

    No - 89.25%
    Yes on Rk1 - 5.27%
    Yes on RK2 - 5.48%


    Again this question was asked to determine how many German speaking players had already decided to play actively in a non-german environment. I was surprised by how low a number this was.

    4. There are concerns regarding the number of active players on DNW. Which of the following actions would you prefer?

    No merge, no transfer. I like DNW how it is and would prefer to be able to continue playing on a German server. - 53.65%

    Merge with RK1 or RK2 - 19.88%
    Free transfer to RK1 - 6.59%
    Free transfer to RK2 - 5.17%
    I am undecided - 14.71%


    This was of course the most important question. All concerns and suggestions aside...what did the general population really want? The overwhelming majority of players on DNW want to remain a german population on a german only server. This means we need to work towards a more populated DNW without destroying it with character transfers or server merges. Things that can be done to help with population issues are exactly the same things that need to be addressed for the overall future of the game. The new engine, smoothing out the newbie experience to make the learning curve less scary, running more events, more open/pickup type pvp are all things we are working on to help increase the number of new players who stay with us after trying the game for the first time. The sponsor system of the next question is another example of a tool to help retain new customers and reward veteran players who help the game grow.

    7. How much interest do you have in a sponsor system, to get new players motivated to subscribe and continue playing on DNW?

    I would definitely make good use of it. - 24.14%
    I would watch the situation first and perhaps make use of it. - 53.25%
    I don't think I would bother at all. - 22.62%


    24% of users would make use of a sponsor system without really even knowing what it was. 53% are willing to look and consider using it if it is worth using.
    This confirms the need for this kind of system in AO. AO suffers slightly from "Old MMO-itis" where the veteran players are not really available to new players to help smooth their transition into the game. This makes perfect sense as AO is probably the most complex MMO available and there is little or no benefit to a veteran player who uses their time to help a new person who might not even stay. The sponsor system we are considering is a simple one...as long as you continue to sponsor two new paying players (who are not sponsoring players themselves) you will not pay a subscription fee to play AO...this will allow the veteran players to grow the game and be rewarded for their efforts. This will take some time as we can't allow for "creative gameplay" in this area...but it is in the works.

    7. The survey has been kept very short on purpose, if you have additional concerns, please raise them here in this free text box, but please keep it brief if possible.

    Common concerns:

    Translate the game.
    While this would be beneficial to the German community it would be an absurd amount of code work to localize AO. Only a very small amount of AO is currently available in a translateable text database...getting the rest in there would represent months (if not years when considering the work of actually translating the text) of code work and can not be justified with the current number of players. Other games that have produced translated versions have not seen a return on the investment made...I don't think we can afford to take that kind of gamble in terms of time and money. While I appreciate the communities generosity in offering to translate the game I unfortunately can't agree to release something we have no quality control over. It would be impossible for us to verify each translation...and therefore impossible for us to make it public.

    Enabling cross-server PVP
    With our current technology enabling cross-dimension PVP would be impossible. The way the game works would have to be completely restructured to enable this small addition. The motivation for this request comes from a desire to enjoy more pvp gameplay...and I think the way for us to provide that is through new open-pvp encounters rather than spending a year to make the battlestations available cross-server. We'll work on providing more pvp alternatives that can be done with less people in the near future.

    New graphic engine.
    This was by far the most common concern. We are working on it with all available resources and nothing we can do will make it complete faster. We want it out as badly as you as we agree that nothing will help our game as much as a facelift to today's standards.

    ************************************************** ***********************
    AO Learning Curve

    There has been a great deal of discussion recently on the beginning experience" of AO. For example this discussion here:

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=556269

    I can't count the number of times I have played the "beginning" of AO. I can full agree that:

    1. It is confusing.
    2. Overly complicated.
    3. Difficult to make money without previous knowledge.
    4. Somewhat lost in terms of story.
    5. Lacking the obvious direction that new players need to get started.
    6. Lacks profession specific content to help you learn your profession.
    7. Has massive room for improvement.

    Having time I would like to completely alter the beginning of the game. The learning curve is steep and the amount to learn is frightening. Some adjustments will be made...but I'm not sure when we will get to them. There is another problem as well.

    Anarchy Online IS complicated.

    At some point, whether it is level 2 or level 200, players will look around and be stunned by the sheer complexity of AO. This is part of what makes AO the game that it is. AO is a game for a specific kind of person. Removing this complexity would remove a large part of what makes AO the amazing game that it is. Players return to AO specifically for the complexity and level of character customization. Efforts can be made to smooth out the beginning of AO in terms of the "WTF Factor" but the jarring moment of realization that separates AO players from everyone else will still happen at some point in the experience. We can only hope that moving this moment later into the experience will result in more players joining the community.

    Thank you to all who took the time to look at the first moments of AO with fresh eyes and to relay your impressions to us. It is not always easy to know the best direction to take for the future of our universe...and hearing the same ideas and impressions from many different sources certainly helps. When the opinions of the community coincide with our own it makes it easier to proceed knowing we are doing the right thing. There were some excellent ideas we had not considered that will now get attention thanks to your individual efforts.

    When I started this weekly update 9 months ago (Can you believe it??) I didn't really know how this was going to work out. It hasn't been easy to always get this done and keep both the dev team and community involved and communicating during this time but I believe it keeps getting better with every month we maintain this commitment. Thank you all for reminding me why this effort is worth it and why we will continue to do it every week...even if I have to use my phone to do it!

    Have a great weekend!
    Colin Cragg
    This "Means" Cake
    Past Game Director (2008-2011)

  2. #2

    Funcom employee

    First!!!

  3. #3
    Aw, was gonna post "First" but scrolled down to Macro's

    Ah well. Terrific post, and very glad that you know the newbie situation.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
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    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  4. #4
    oh i could have been the second but i read all the post bove first :P

    well i hope u can get more players to play AO

    my personal noticing of the game, that i play like 4-5 years ago (with some lil breaks):

    -farming new and new items getting annoying (yes we have lotsa choices where we wanna go, but if wanna do them all then it will take lotsa time...)
    -old good players quit the game because the imbalanced profs/sides (ok, some come back, some leave like it was before, but i think less would quit. (i hope the re-balancing act will be succesful)
    -low level playing is still not the best, sec10 was great, but abandoned now... new instance will be good, but it will help leveling only, and maybe get some new items for tl5-tl7 toons (you should concentrate on lower level toons too like: if u make a new nano like the db nanos, why dont you make lower level versions of them too?) Boost lower tl pvp with runspeed boost on lower bs-es, make more reward for them for pvp-ing
    -and NW... : i think it is out-of-date, meaning towers those were made for characters 5 years (or more) ago, now every1 can solo towers at the low tls. Mechs and new turrets were good, but as Means said there was such a great work on them and now not much people using them

    I know that not everyone agree with me on these, but these are only my opinions. And sorry for bad english.
    Last edited by fixking; Jul 3rd, 2009 at 15:13:43.
    (online mostly at 17:00-20:00 GMT)

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    Prazem tl5 pvp toon

    >Frozen atm<

  5. #5
    5rd!

    newb island needs
    imps
    ammo
    proper shops
    ai ship enter
    sl portal(with npc explaining sl)
    prof specific npc dialog
    proper entrance(not appear on an island above a destroyed plane)
    a way for 0-220 players to come onto the island, with no way of attacking/trading/buffing/looting/casting nanos/helping noobs except through talking
    Last edited by MassDebater; Jul 3rd, 2009 at 15:08:48.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  6. #6
    One key in the start up I would suggest is to redo the auto ip distribution to make it more accurate/make it costumorizable like with adv choose "melee build" and "ranged build" or whatever.
    I am glad that there is thought being put into atracting and keeping new players as low population is one of the few things about this game that make it hard to play sometimes.

  7. #7
    Anarchy Online is loved because it is complicated, let's leave it at that
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
    {edited by Anarrina: see me if you have questions}
    When specifically asked for positive words, responding with a personal attack is incredibly rude and inappropriate. Please do not repeat such behavior.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    Anarchy Online is loved because it is complicated, let's leave it at that

    loved by alot less than more simple games unfortunately.

    i want ao to be complicated but i fear that it wont have enough people for me to enjoy unless it is made more accessible to certain types of people
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  9. #9
    Very nice one indeed... Glad to see that you're aware of newbie problem...

    No updates about engine tho'

    With our current technology enabling cross-dimension PVP would be impossible.
    Just copy to Test-live

    The sponsor system we are considering is a simple one...as long as you continue to sponsor two new paying players (who are not sponsoring players themselves) you will not pay a subscription fee to play AO...this will allow the veteran players to grow the game and be rewarded for their efforts.
    Hard to do but could help... But can be exploitable...

    Dev team has any ideas to make RP more alive? We had a thread where we got ARKs opinnion... But we need FC to support and update timeline too

    Good work in getting IRRK back btw even if I'd like it more if it had the whole article to read it ingame than sending us to forums... But good job and THANK YOU

    loved by alot less than more simple games unfortunately.
    I really prefer 1k players and game as it is than 30k players and a wannabe WOW game
    Last edited by Azazelkeep; Jul 3rd, 2009 at 15:42:53.
    Sometimes I want to scream
    So long that life escapes.
    Then I'd shut my eyes.
    I'd be the angel of disgrace

  10. #10
    I think it would be interesting to see what kind of results we would get from the survey that the German server took on RK1 and RK2. There are just certain questions that I would love to see answers to.

    As for the sponsorship thing should there potentially be a time limit on it like say maybe 3 months or 6 months. If not what is to stop someone who normally runs around with 2 accounts from just starting a third one for free instead of actually bringing in new blood. Honestly I would hate to see something like that in place cause heaven knows I'm all for playing for free but there is a huge potential to take advantage of a situation as simple as that one.
    Malcom Ciafardoni
    Circle-G Inc. - The Past. The Present. Your Future.

    I'm not a gimp, I'm a trade skill Trader.

  11. #11
    I just had a couple friends at work give AO a try and after a few weeks they gave up on it. I will try and get some feed back from them on what drove them away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glarawyn
    Nah, the general perception of Adventurers in AO is that we're a DD profession with fur.
    Achiever 60.00%, Explorer 73.33%, Killer 53.33%, Socializer 13.33%

  12. #12
    I love the complexity of AO and don't think you need to exactly dumb down the newbie levels.
    Rather give the new players a chance to concentrate on learning the beginning of professions, implants, IP and Perks system be it through quests or mini games or whatever catchy repeatable thingies you can think of, and reward them for it with some usable gear and/or start up cash.
    Verta 220/30/70

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Whealer View Post
    As for the sponsorship thing should there potentially be a time limit on it like say maybe 3 months or 6 months. If not what is to stop someone who normally runs around with 2 accounts from just starting a third one for free instead of actually bringing in new blood. Honestly I would hate to see something like that in place cause heaven knows I'm all for playing for free but there is a huge potential to take advantage of a situation as simple as that one.
    Don't want people getting buy 2 get one free account thing? :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    The sponsor system we are considering is a simple one...as long as you continue to sponsor two new paying players (who are not sponsoring players themselves) you will not pay a subscription fee to play AO...this will allow the veteran players to grow the game and be rewarded for their efforts.
    Free sure would be nice, but wouldn't cutting the payment price in half be enough of a reward?
    Major "Grimclaw" Sinister Solitus - Enforcer | Alucard "Opigrim" Ashwell Opifex - Shade | Queen "Shoomi" Hex Opifex - Keeper

  15. #15
    My initial experience of AO wasnt very good.

    I created my character, and got dumped into a black room where I couldnt see anything.

    I eventually stumbled out of a door and into an Omni backyard, where I still couldnt see anything.

    After some fiddling, I discovered that the view distance sliders etc were all set to minimum and once I increased the settings, things were much better.

    7 years later and Im still here, no breaks, no vast periods of non-playing.
    Omutb - President - Ring of Destruction

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    The sponsor system of the next question is another example of a tool to help retain new customers and reward veteran players who help the game grow.
    Of ALL the things i've see you post so far Means, that is by far the most interesting. Tell us where to sign up & I bet you'll see a HUGE interest in keeping AO alive with such an idea. Along with an extra Character Slot to help encourage Vets. to get involved with newbies, that's the best thing I've seen you suggest in all the time I've read your weekly letter.

    Make It So Means.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

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  17. #17
    Making a comcially gimp character your first time around is kind of a right of passage in AO, but it shouldn't be like that. I didn't even know what implants were untill my first char was lvl 80. Obviously new players won't know how to fine-tune their chars like we do, but they shouldn't have to wait untill lvl 150 to fully udnerstand how to play.

  18. #18
    No mention of eta on 18.1 bugs or fixes?

  19. #19

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    No mention of eta on 18.1 bugs or fixes?
    Sorry for distracting Means, i sat on his lap the whole day and forced him to write something for the German Community Survey

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Enabling cross-server PVP
    With our current technology enabling cross-dimension PVP would be impossible. The way the game works would have to be completely restructured to enable this small addition. The motivation for this request comes from a desire to enjoy more pvp gameplay...and I think the way for us to provide that is through new open-pvp encounters rather than spending a year to make the battlestations available cross-server. We'll work on providing more pvp alternatives that can be done with less people in the near future.
    I think you mean "cross-server BSs" not "cross-server PvP" as there is a difference. Since as you go higher in lvl with LE mission VP scaling so horribly BSs are the only real way to get decent VP. Although with a low volume server like the German one is to my understanding getting even the 210-220 BS going may be rough.

    While there's bound to be some looking for more PvP options when people generally bring up some form of cross-server PvP it's in relation to BSs and that is in the hopes to get them running more effectively. Some want them running for the PvP, others for the VP.

    Considering the clear lack of interest in BSs at most lvls, my general dealings with people in game and how PvP works in AO there just doesn't seem an excess of interest in PvP by the majority of players. Some may really go for it and engage in it actively, most others seem to just do it rarely (mostly in BSs until they get enough VP) or have little to no interest in it and avoid it as best they can. While there are some exceedingly vocal members of the PvP community in the forums these would seem to represent the minority, not the majority.

    There is no real "pick up PvP" in AO. If you didn't spend the time and/or creds to get some really good gear, grind the research and grind the AI lvls while holding out at lvl X you just won't do that well. This is part of how PvP works in AO, it gets worse as your lvl goes higher and is part of why people aren't into it. They would just rather play casually rather than put their char largely in park so they can compete with the others. Anything is more fun when you have a real chance of success and have an interest in the activity.

    I'm not saying don't do anything PvP related. Just realize most don't seem as though they'd be as excited about some more PvP options as the smaller percentage of the community would be. Providing the birthday VP bonus items in BSs when only two out of nine of them run effectively and the avid BS goers have been starting threads asking for more things to spend their VP on for over two years now would be an example of misplaced focus. This is in contrast to those that want VP at the other lvls where BSs don't run, can't do all that well in BSs against the twinks or have no interest in PvP have been asking for some real alternative to BSs for VP. Some PvPers have even started threads asking for zero VP BSs and the like, not more VP.

    Adding new things is good, just add them where they are needed, don't stuff even more in where it is not. This is sort of like some of those nanos such as GTH. It was too much, caused problems and people have been complaining ever since. GTH was added even though traders could use other things/tools far more than something like GTH. The newer engi blockers would be another example of this.

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