Who's back?

[Daspoon]

Yeah that. It seems that ALL the hot spots of AO aren't enough to convince the braindead Obtena. Seems he thinks everybody is in inf mishes or something. What exactly would convince you of the evidence? I can tell you that 120vs120 battles in 2005 were 12% of the game population. Last 30 vs 30 was 9,8%. You do the maths, and tell me I'm wrong. There is hardly any more reliable source than % of online population.

(Actually, I'll do the maths for you. It's 2000 people vs 612. You start getting the point now?)

Someone posted something intelligent in a thread....

I believe in 2012 now.

[Obtena]

Yeah that. It seems that ALL the hot spots of AO aren't enough to convince the braindead Obtena. Seems he thinks everybody is in inf mishes or something. What exactly would convince you of the evidence? I can tell you that 120vs120 battles in 2005 were 12% of the game population. Last 30 vs 30 was 9,8%. You do the maths, and tell me I'm wrong. There is hardly any more reliable source than % of online population.

(Actually, I'll do the maths for you. It's 2000 people vs 612. You start getting the point now?)

Actually, I said nothing of the sort so ... thanks for coming out. I just don't think you can measure the 'dead of the game through such questionable metrics. I mean, your trying to tell me game is dying because of TL7 tower war population between then and now? It's certainly less people but I don't attribute that to dead. I mean, who's to say that 612 isn't good enough? Certainly not you. Sure, I see people complaining they can't get things done ... FC also changed the whole endgame raid system from bot to player driven instances so there are definitely going to be more people complaining they can't do things in that environment. Sorry, i'm not convinced the game is on the brink of catastrophy.

[Obtena]

Out of curiosity, what would convince you that there is a population problem?

Not sure, TBH. Certainly not LFT numbers and at least not a player declaring some metric as an indicator that it is. I mean, define what you mean by problem. I don't have problems. No one in my org has problems. Does that make it reasonable for me to assume that anyone in an org like mine don't have a problem too? Is it unreasonable to think that most people on RK2 are in orgs like mine, or at least have access to groups of friends in orgs like mine to do things together?

I guess my point is ... it's alot of heresay to choose some statistic, and claim it's a measureable way to see if the game is dying, especially if you don't have a benchmark for what 'dying' is or a correlation between the 'dying' scale and the value of that metric. From my perspective, I can still do the things I want to do and as long as there is options to get things done, there isn't really a problem for me. If there isn't a problem for me, that means there are options for people out there so they don't have problems either. I guess that means if there is a population problem, it would mean people don't have options. That's how I conclude there isn't problems. There are options. The ONLY instance I can think of where population might be a problem is timezone-related. Maybe some Australian dude has a problem getting things done, but still, how you measure that if that guy hasn't exhausted all his options, I don't think anyone can say definitively.

[Matammyr]

I mean, who's to say that 612 isn't good enough?

I'm going to go ahead and say that 612 people on a server in an MMO as big as AO isn't good enough.

Sorry, i'm not convinced the game is on the brink of catastrophy.

I don't know if anyone else used this or an approximate phrase, but I don't think the game is on the brink of catastrophe, just severely and obviously underpopulated.

I mean, define what you mean by problem.

Zero, literally zero people, in all but three cities in the entire game, and only two of those have more than ten people in them. Entire zones without anyone in them. An approaching inevitability of the inability of being able to do pvm content. Those, and probably a few others I haven't thought of, are what I personally mean by "problems".

I don't have problems. No one in my org has problems. Does that make it reasonable for me to assume that anyone in an org like mine don't have a problem too? Is it unreasonable to think that most people on RK2 are in orgs like mine, or at least have access to groups of friends in orgs like mine to do things together?

Yeah, pretty unreasonable to think that everyone is in a big, active org, or that they should be. I think you've lost touch with what it's like to be new to this game and climb the ladder to being a "known" person.

I guess my point is ... it's alot of heresay to choose some statistic, and claim it's a measureable way to see if the game is dying, especially if you don't have a benchmark for what 'dying' is or a correlation between the 'dying' scale and the value of that metric. From my perspective, I can still do the things I want to do and as long as there is options to get things done, there isn't really a problem for me. If there isn't a problem for me, that means there are options for people out there so they don't have problems either. I guess that means if there is a population problem, it would mean people don't have options. That's how I conclude there isn't problems. There are options. The ONLY instance I can think of where population might be a problem is timezone-related. Maybe some Australian dude has a problem getting things done, but still, how you measure that if that guy hasn't exhausted all his options, I don't think anyone can say definitively.

What I see with my own eyes is not hearsay. You want to play armchair solipsist? By all means, go ahead.

Why are you the benchmark for what can be gotten done? Because you have no problems, others don't?

[Chrys]

I mean, your trying to tell me game is dying because of TL7 tower war population between then and now? It's certainly less people but I don't attribute that to dead. I mean, who's to say that 612 isn't good enough?

Hahahaha you sure have low standards. In any other game, people get completely sick and tired of the inaction of devs and stuff with numbers less than a couple thousand players. Never mind that 600 players includes how many bots and duel-logged? It looks like AO players are too stupid to realise how ridiculous the situation really is, which is a nice convenient escape for FC. They need to get their blinders off and see what a MASSIVE MULTI-player game actually means anymore. xD Several of the servers that got shut down in Warhammer (that terrible failure of a game) were getting shut down with 1k-2k players on at peak times.

I predict in a couple months time it'll be "What 300 isn't good enough?!?!?" And then 200... then 100. It's a slow decline, which makes it possible for the fanboi to keep pretending things are just fine, but AO's death actually happened years ago and everyone missed it. Yes, you are playing a dead game, but it's only tempered by having your expectations set so low you can't realise it. It has long been time for a three-way server merge, but player expectations are so ridiculously low that they're happy to be trudging along in an empty game.

[Phixalicious]

Hahahaha you sure have low standards. In any other game, people get completely sick and tired of the inaction of devs and stuff with numbers less than a couple thousand players. Never mind that 600 players includes how many bots and duel-logged? It looks like AO players are too stupid to realise how ridiculous the situation really is, which is a nice convenient escape for FC. They need to get their blinders off and see what a MASSIVE MULTI-player game actually means anymore. xD Several of the servers that got shut down in Warhammer (that terrible failure of a game) were getting shut down with 1k-2k players on at peak times.

I predict in a couple months time it'll be "What 300 isn't good enough?!?!?" And then 200... then 100. It's a slow decline, which makes it possible for the fanboi to keep pretending things are just fine, but AO's death actually happened years ago and everyone missed it. Yes, you are playing a dead game, but it's only tempered by having your expectations set so low you can't realise it. It has long been time for a three-way server merge, but player expectations are so ridiculously low that they're happy to be trudging along in an empty game.

^^This.

[Neccoz]

I think Schar has put the finger on the real issue. Obtena can try to argue all he wants, Schar has it, whatever he says.

Just for you though. I wanted to point out the difference between death (corrected your repeated typo aswell) and dying. Death means it's finished, nothing can be done anymore. Dying means it's leading towards death. In my example of numbers, the word "dying" is technically correct. You can argue all you want, there are no standarts to put up, dying means, being less and less alive as time goes on. Which is what happens to the server. So when trying to twist words, please do it with the appropriate words, and don't totally change them, considering the ones you changed have a TOTALLY different meaning. Death != Dying. Period. And therefore, my point remains, my maths remain and what I said is not a point of view, but a fact.

[Obtena]

Hahahaha you sure have low standards. In any other game, people get completely sick and tired of the inaction of devs and stuff with numbers less than a couple thousand players. Never mind that 600 players includes how many bots and duel-logged? It looks like AO players are too stupid to realise how ridiculous the situation really is, which is a nice convenient escape for FC.

Maybe, but AO is a good game and the fact remains, it's still possible to do things in it, even if my standards are simply whether or not I can do things. I mean, it's all about how that low population affects you as a player. Some feel the hurt, some are oblivious to it. I for one, enjoy the 30 vs. 30 TL7 tower battles ... it's the exact sort of fight that AO players have been wishing for since the time I started attending.

The game is dying .. OK it's dying. It's been dying since LE came out, probably before. Well, I guess if you think that if it takes 4 years to get this bad off, I think it will be another bunch of years before it's dead. I can live with that. I guess I'm stupid then but that's OK, I enjoy playing still and think I will enjoy it for the next few years to come. I feel sorry those people that don't play, stick their heads in every 6 months with the free offer and get on their soap box predicting the inevitable demise of the game. Yeah, OK. You win. You preach, I will play.

[Neccoz]

Maybe, but AO is a good game

Nobody said otherwise, it doesn't stops it to be dying.

[Tysken]

yes the servers are low on population.

but since they are thinkin bout scrappin DNW.. they can scrap either RK1 or Rk2 and move either one to the other to. should solve alot of issues. and maby attract and keep new players easier since they would get bigger chance of teamin & experience that way.

keep new players = more players overall everyday.

so. scrap all servers and merge em into one big pool. would give us a population again... and make a totally new server. starting from lvl 1 all around.

[Obtena]

Nobody said otherwise, it doesn't stops it to be dying.

Other than WOW and some new games ... what game isn't? There are always reasons to dilute the population of all the games out there. I guess stating the obvious is one of your strong points.

[Neccoz]

I guess stating the obvious is one of your strong points.

Is it? Go read the post I made just for you four posts earlier. Apparently, the obvious isn't obvious to everybody, including you.

[Obtena]

Is it? Go read the post I made just for you four posts earlier. Apparently, the obvious isn't obvious to everybody, including you.

I didn't say it wasn't obvious the game wasn't dying, I was saying that the information people was putting forth to support that statement wasn't a good way to measure it. Maybe it's semantics.

[ithacana]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8...hsmadeeasy.jpg

[Neccoz]

I didn't say it wasn't obvious the game wasn't dying, I was saying that the information people was putting forth to support that statement wasn't a good way to measure it. Maybe it's semantics.

No, it's just plain wrong. And you said "is dead" initially. The fact the game becomes les active, and therefore ALIVE shows it is DYING. Numbers are a fact, on this matter, not a point of view or an assumption. Lass activity is brough by less number, and less number on a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online Game makes it die, because the death of an MMO is when either the servers shut down, or the population is low enough that nothing can be done anymore. And therefore, dying is the correc word to use, and my numbers are 100% relevant. L2Facts.

[Neccoz]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8...hsmadeeasy.jpg

Lmao, he's trying to fight me over the words I used or not rather than admitting he was wrong, you really expect him to even understand that graphic?

[Obtena]

I'm ingame right now crying because it's dying. I might run out of tears though by the time it dies

[Ctrlaltwin]

All I've gotten from the last 20 or so posted is this:

-The game is dying (See point 4)
-Neccoz still has to learn what FACTS are (I'd sure hate your definition of "theories", also 612?)
-Ith can show a basic graph (really funny)
-Obtena sees what your saying, but what does it matter?

[Matammyr]

Some of my favorite things about threads containing continental Europeans arguing is all the cute little mistakes they make in English.

Edit: Not that my Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish, Flemmish, ect. is any better.

[-Barg-]

I log in GMT evenings and at weekend, unfortunately some have to work.

I monitor how many people online in my org and alliance we are in whenever I'm playing. I can spew some calculations, numbers, figures to show an increase at least in the last month. I can also see many more at low TL's in the orgs some alts some new.

Maybe Omni are dying, thats why they were less that 1% yesterday, when I hit lft I see over a page of entries, I see one or two pande teams happening at the same time with alliance only. I see 12 man, sector raids, ai raids going on all the time in the alliance. 3 months ago it was much much worse.

Rather than just bitch and moan I have no friends, roll an alt, level it with new players get them to stay in game and have someone join your dying org. Anyway I thought you quit, Chrys and others too. Seems you guys cant take it the game is going on without you guys in.