Low Level Trader(s) Drains

[Obtena]

There's more to this game than you know. Care to look up how many NR buffs there are?

That's really not relevant. NR buffs don't prevent traders from twinking more NCU than any other profession in the game, prevent traders from pre-draining mobs before entering combat or prevent them from draining you. If it did, or if there were other things that evened out those advantages, you would see a variety of other professions balancing out the numbers in that level range. That fact you don't should be an obvious indicator of something being unbalanced there. You speak like someone who customizes their PVP encounters in AO to convince themselves that traders aren't exceptional and play on an even playfield in lowbie PVP. Clearly they don't. It's also not relevant to proclaim the fix to the traders issue is building a twink that specializes in defeating traders. If that's your solution, you really have no clue why traders dominating lowbie PVP is a problem in the first place and simply aren't qualified to comment on the situation.

[Wyoming]

Again, whining about OBed traders instead of thinking of a creative solution ain't gonna do much.
Here's a little guide on how to beat a lvl 15 OBed Trader:
Use the Suppression Timer to do the following:
Use Gazump Fight or Sacrifice, equip a B-94 and an Eye Wind and boom.
That is an Instant Kill, nearly 100% of the time.
150, 30%, 30%, 50.
If you've never played a Tower Trader, that is lethal enough.

[Obtena]

Again, that doesn't address the problem that's being outlined in the thread. I understand that people are a little 'thick' when it comes to understanding and love to show how clever they are by ignoring the original discussion but this thread topic didn't ask how to beat a level 15 trader in a perfectly-constructed, scripted, forum PVP scenario.

Bottom line: People want to PVP on a even playing field with a trader at lowbie level ranges that doesn't require a systematic approach. Your 'solution' doesn't address that problem and only highlights the problem people are bringing foward here. The things that make traders OPed that level are not related or resolved by the fact that traders can be killed with a very specific set of instructions.

[Phixalicious]

Again, that doesn't address the problem that's being outlined in the thread. I understand that people are a little 'thick' when it comes to understanding and love to show how clever they are by ignoring the original discussion but this thread topic didn't ask how to beat a level 15 trader in a perfectly-constructed, scripted, forum PVP scenario.

Bottom line: People want to PVP on a even playing field with a trader at lowbie level ranges that doesn't require a systematic approach. Your 'solution' doesn't address that problem and only highlights the problem people are bringing foward here. The things that make traders OPed that level are not related or resolved by the fact that traders can be killed with a very specific set of instructions.

Wouldn't "a very specific set of instructions" normally be called "strategy" anywhere else?

[Obtena]

Wouldn't "a very specific set of instructions" normally be called "strategy" anywhere else?

Sure. label it whatever you want.

What does the fact that a strategy or instruction (or whatever the hell you want to call it) have to do with the fact that traders have access to things that other professions don't that unbalance them in lowbie PVP? I don't think it's very relevant or very sincere that anyone would suggest such a thing.

[Wyoming]

Ah, ah, ah. I gave a strategy for stopping another strategy. That's about as specific as it can get in this situation. Want a chance against Traders in the regular, self buffed way? Stop whining and play better.

[Obtena]

Good for you. That's not what people are asking for here or wanting to discuss ... again, your "attempting cleverness, appearing thick" thing happening. You're clearly mistaking an open dialogue with FC to resolve a balance issue with a player request for how to do something in-game. They didn't ask you for a way to kill traders, especially one that is conditional. They are asking/proposing ways to make other builds compete considering the unique and significant advantages of a particular profession. This requires FC intervention, coding, etc ....

Maybe in your view it's not needed ... I suspect that you think if there is a way to do something, then there isn't a problem. That's a very narrow-minded approach that isn't good if this aspect of the game is to be appealing to people. It comes down to the same thing that is being said in the other thread. I won't bother repeating it here because obviously that's a waste of time on you. Go read it.

[Wyoming]

Actually, I was explaining how a player can compete if they know what to do. I believe one thing can be changed, which is to make a Trader's root line... non existent. A small snare turning into an RS buff would be both more appropriate to the profession AND more balanced. Root + Drain = Sad Face.

[Obtena]

Sure it's competition, but so is a swimming competition between an Olympian vs. a guy with no legs. You REALLY don't get it ... people don't care if you know a way to beat a trader or claim nothings unbalanced here because you can 'compete'.

You finding a way to kill a trader has got nothing to do with the fact that traders access stats and skills that are inappropriate for their level when compared to non-traders. You see, no matter what you claim about how gimp traders are or how easy they are to kill, it doesn't make sense when looking at what happens in game. If there was ACTUALLY an fair matchup between traders and the other profs, the populations would reflect it.

[Wyoming]

No, no, no. You're basically saying a twinked trader and a naked, powerlevelled, no IP'd toon by that comparison. I'm talking about equal twinkage means equal odds. While levelling, my shade had no issues battering normal Traders, but twinked ones were only fightable by twinks.

[Mesa]

Woooow, how many threads we had about this topic? (I made one myself some years ago) Traders ARE OP in low level ranges.
The fact that FC still wasnt able to get this problem solved is not even funny anymore (but another good reason to keep my hands of the reactivate button)...
you can kill a trader with sacrifice ? wooow badass tactic..

[Obtena]

I'm talking about equal twinkage means equal odds.

Yeah, and that's the problem ... a trader that twinks 'equal' to other professions does not fight at equal odds with them.

[Wyoming]

Uhh... to be fair, I've a feeling you're looking at it wrong. At what level are we talking?

[Notcrattey]

Best option if you ask me would be a drain cap on the target depending on level, meaning the trader gets the full benefit of the drain but the pvp target is not nearly as affected.

[Obtena]

Uhh... to be fair, I've a feeling you're looking at it wrong. At what level are we talking?

Awesome, you don't understand me, so to be fair, you assume I'm the one looking at it wrong. I don't think you're going to say anything to make me think there isn't some inbalance here. The relative populations for twinks in the lower level ranges speaks for itself.

[Wyoming]

Actually, the way I see it, Traders are the "Easy" route. The "population" you're on about backs ME up. How many truly skilled people make Traders for anything other than Tower PvP.

[Obtena]

Actually, the way I see it, Traders are the "Easy" route. The "population" you're on about backs ME up. How many truly skilled people make Traders for anything other than Tower PvP.

If there were NO PVM traders or ONLY traders being rolled for PVM, it wouldn't change anything to do with the fact that their is a significant inbalance between traders twinks vs. others at lowbie PVP ranges. In other words, whatever you think about being easy or not or what people do for PVM have zero influence on PVP. References to PVM uses and populations for ant specific profession do not back you up for a discussion on relative PVP populations but frankly, I'm not surprised to see someone try it. You have made a fallacy of association here.

[Slynn]

Lowbie PvP is flooded with traders and traders only. (almost).
The amount they're able to drain is incredible.
With mochams, and pre-draining mobs, a 15 trader or less (whatever) can debuff someone for numbers like -125 and -136. That's -266 right there. That's more than some/most appropriately ql'ed weapon requirements for similarly leveled professions.

So within say 1s (cast time on the first drain) it's impossible to kill someone if they have a heal over time. After another 6s (7s later) you can completely remove someones ability to do damage. Their weapon is now 0% effective.

This should have been addressed YEARS ago. This is a balance discussion. How did it even slip by after the first few months (or years) that lowbie PvP was completely and utterly dominated by a single profession.

If this is balance. You are provably wrong.

While i quite agree with all you wrote here, my 21 enfo can gank all those predrained traders all over. (RK1)

[Obtena]

While i quite agree with all you wrote here, my 21 enfo can gank all those predrained traders all over. (RK1)

Two viable profs at lowbie PVP does not make for a balanced situation. I think the core complaint here is related to that fact. The consequence is that the unbalance favours one profession. The specific complaint of the OP is that the result is it favours traders. A specific the fix is denying traders access the things that make them outclass all others. The more general fix is to ensure that the tools accessible to all profs that level are on the same level of play.

The fact that a non-drained anyone can gank a trader is of no relevance here. That's a very situational scenario.

[bitnykk]

Best option if you ask me would be a drain cap on the target depending on level, meaning the trader gets the full benefit of the drain but the pvp target is not nearly as affected.

Iirc, that's exactly what we came up with - after pages of passionate debate in this thread.