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Thread: GTH and BR changes. (Info from Means)

  1. #21
    I seriously hope, those proposed changes, at least of GTH take a different route.

    This change does even affect normal PVM gameplay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  2. #22
    Most of the time I casted GTH on self instead others, just so I can still have the positive effect after killing em.

    Wtb a new solution to fill my pool after NBG.
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  3. #23
    Noticed the nano added to pool is better in the proposed version, for the duration of it ? meaning better NBD, for the time it last ? yeah cooldown sucks. It's not all white all black.

  4. #24
    I'm unsure BR will fix trader defense on a long term. It's still a one hit wonder, at least with a 60s timer. Also this still doesn't clog a defense hole in pvm and won't help in leveling the profession.

    What I mean is with that it have a strong chance to become -the- defense in pvp and adding anything over that, like future nano helping evading or absorbing, will be overkill. I'm experiencing that badly with my soldier, with all that nemesis fun that ensued. Should a pvm fix is added, you get this+br...

    Also I think the requirement on target should chance, people will look for 23% reflect and that's it. It should still push people to use RRFE instead of a crappy lowbie shield. In example, it may simply act from 10%.

    The fun part however: draining another trader who used BR.
    Last edited by Boltgun; Feb 27th, 2010 at 20:06:32.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
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  5. #25
    My only problem I see at the moment is the short duration on the positive effect of GTH for the trader.

    I would like to see at least a small amount of nano being fed into the trader for the duration of the lockout to help slightly counter the negative effect from NBD.
    "Ignorance is bliss."
    Phat'est Trader on Rimor
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanotehnpoir View Post
    My only problem I see at the moment is the short duration on the positive effect of GTH for the trader.

    I would like to see at least a small amount of nano being fed into the trader for the duration of the lockout to help slightly counter the negative effect from NBD.
    Yep.

    BR's negative effect lasts 15 sec on target but the positive effect lasts 1 min on trader (in the current version at least).

    GTH's negative effect lasts 15 sec on target but unlike BR, the positive effect also only lasts 15 sec. If BR can have a longer lasting positive effect then GTH DEFINITELY can have a longer lasting positive effect as well as BR is more powerful than GTH.

    If anything, GTH should have a longer positive duration than BR based on the effect they have on the trader.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post

    If anything, GTH should have a longer positive duration than BR based on the effect they have on the trader.
    *nods*
    "Ignorance is bliss."
    Phat'est Trader on Rimor
    Phat = Pretty Hot and Tempting.
    Entrepreneur Grandmaster "Chacapo" Baiter - Forever Nerfed
    Also known as 'Poir'
    Clanners will be crushed!
    Omni-Tek shall prevail!
    One of the First Traders on Rimor To Have Nanobot Defense and Grand Theft Humidity

  8. #28
    Stop arguing for Christ's sake, the thread's only managed to make 2 pages.
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  9. #29
    Lusthorne's idea is much much better. If the idea was to change how GTH works, they didn't exactly nail it with the current proposed idea. It's just the same really, with shorter duration and a 1 minute lock-out regardless if it lands or not, and not beneficial to ourselves in a reasonable manner.

    Our professionals really have to come forward and inform Means of lusthorne's idea. Seriously. Even NT's like it!
    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with...

    My pvp stats: Duel wins: 945 / losses: 368 - Solo kills: 5632 / team: 7511

    My org mate: Solo kills: 24 933 / Team: 683

  10. #30
    Copy/pasting from FWM :
    What about toning down this new BR version in such a way :

    - steal 10/13ish % of someone's reflect, insta cast, 50% NR check, positive effect 1 min on trader, 15 seconds or so on victim, local cooldown if the NR check still failed, like 30 seconds.

    So basically everyone keep running with RRFE as it is now, and it gives trader a bit more of mass pvp resistance, while they still rely on other people to have this xtra reflect boost. 13% more reflect is decent enough to notice it, specially combined with heals, it doesn't totally cripple the target in itself, it's a slight boost only.

    At the same time keep thinking about a way to make NBD as viable as before, probably by giving GTH's positive effect a longer duration.

    I hope trader see the point of 43% regular reflect instead of RRFE, giving em more long term survival, while keeping the NBD role as it is now. Despite not playing a trader, i do understand they don't need BR to deal with soljas. They can just root em during the duration of AMS anyway, like NT, afaik.

    Something along these lines. Being moderate.

    As stated in some other thread, addition of small defensive tools = cool def toolset in the end. No need to go over the line in each department.

    I additionnally do think the negative effect of GTH might still be too powerfull vs nano prof (doc&NT), altho i didn t get to test it in duel. If the fight vs NT is even, it is all good. Dunno bout docs. Gotta remember that if the NT is in LE nukes mode, draining his pool = no passive DtN reflect // no NBG possible. In NS2 mode it might be even. D be cool that LE nukes fights were even too. I d just add a specifically designed tool to NT toolset, locked to the off focus too (locked to the use of LE nukes), so that the fight isn't loltastic.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Venachar View Post
    Stop arguing for Christ's sake, the thread's only managed to make 2 pages.
    The thing is, the obvious "fails" have been pointed out already.
    Neophyte Nerf"Shareida"Batted First Order
    Freshman Jefferey"Bailan2"Ginsberg - Retired
    Shareidah - First Order

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    it's written in the bible.
    Matthew 23:13 "and the trader hath casteth bulk trader at the young age of 14. and it was good. and so he hath an extra 260 comp lit and he hath equippeth better ncu's. and it was good too.
    A Producer's point of view

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Racatti View Post
    Most of the time I casted GTH on self instead others, just so I can still have the positive effect after killing em.

    Wtb a new solution to fill my pool after NBG.
    Maybe, just maybe, they will change NBD! I mean, they have to, in lieu of what they are doing to GTH.
    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with...

    My pvp stats: Duel wins: 945 / losses: 368 - Solo kills: 5632 / team: 7511

    My org mate: Solo kills: 24 933 / Team: 683

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanotehnpoir View Post
    My only problem I see at the moment is the short duration on the positive effect of GTH for the trader.

    I would like to see at least a small amount of nano being fed into the trader for the duration of the lockout to help slightly counter the negative effect from NBD.
    ok what about nt after nbg? the negative effect is for a reason...its called a penalty..if they gonna remove the penalty for trader after nbd via a crap nano...then nts should have a way to fill after nbg...nts=master of notum..trader =!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Strupstad View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, they will change NBD! I mean, they have to, in lieu of what they are doing to GTH.
    trader is not meant to have god-mode...at some point it is meant for u to die..u want a nbd comparable to nt version...thats just silly...u would be better off askin for access to coon.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Strupstad View Post
    Lusthorne's idea is much much better. If the idea was to change how GTH works, they didn't exactly nail it with the current proposed idea. It's just the same really, with shorter duration and a 1 minute lock-out regardless if it lands or not, and not beneficial to ourselves in a reasonable manner.

    Our professionals really have to come forward and inform Means of lusthorne's idea. Seriously. Even NT's like it!
    the whole point it to make it more situational...u dnt need to run around powerspammin gth till it lands...a local cooldown is needed..it needs to be a more situational nano instead of a one hit wonder omglolsitdownandcastnowsinceudnthavenano nano.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    Yep.

    BR's negative effect lasts 15 sec on target but the positive effect lasts 1 min on trader (in the current version at least).

    GTH's negative effect lasts 15 sec on target but unlike BR, the positive effect also only lasts 15 sec. If BR can have a longer lasting positive effect then GTH DEFINITELY can have a longer lasting positive effect as well as BR is more powerful than GTH.

    If anything, GTH should have a longer positive duration than BR based on the effect they have on the trader.
    Hum, I think differently.

    The longer effect should be on BR because trader ability to cast it is conditional, unlike GTH which you can cast on anyone.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Hum, I think differently.

    The longer effect should be on BR because trader ability to cast it is conditional, unlike GTH which you can cast on anyone.
    That's true enough but I personally think that [effect > availability] when it comes to how long they should last. Especially for BR that is almost not situational since 24+ reflects is so common in PvP and because if people don't have 24%+ reflect then BR is not actually needed.

    This is perhaps very silly but I will put this to an extreme:

    If BR was only usable on atrox soldiers that had exactly 84% reflect and that the soldier must have between 40% and 60% hp, then I don't think that it should last 30 minutes on the trader as a reward for using it in such an extremely situational situation. I think that the duration of a nano should be based 100% on what effect it has and 0% on how often you get to use it. No matter how situational the nano is.

    The reason I think this way is because how often you get to use a nano never ties in with how much you NEED to use that nano. PvP-balance comes from what people "need" to do, not what they "can" do. If you CAN use BR then you probably NEED to use BR (if this is untrue then the nano is OP and traders shouldn't get it). If you can't use BR then you shouldn't NEED to use it as the nano should be designed for those situations when you actually need to use it.

    So as far as I'm concerned, if you need to use BR, then its affect and duration should be based just on the fact that you needed to use it and not how long it's been since the last time you found yourself in the same situation.

    Having that said however, I'm not saying on a practical level that GTH should last longer than BR. I just said earlier, based purely on the effect they have on the trader, that GTH should last longer. That's just a theoretical viewpoint though. Not a practical one.

    I know I SUCK at explaining these things but I hope you got the jest of what I was trying to say
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 1st, 2010 at 15:28:29.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  18. #38
    GTH for me was a nice pvm upgrade with its ability to self cast and refill your nano pool.


    I would like to see this effect kept, currently from the reports from Wrangeline, this has been removed.


    Means,

    Can you consider keeping the pvm effect of self casting to refill your nano pool. I really liked that feature and it was a big help and nice feature on the pvm side of the house.

    Thanks..
    Omni Trader on RK2

  19. #39
    It's officially considered an exploit so don't count on it. In fact this thread is about to be moderated heavily (unless people edit their own posts first ).
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Mar 1st, 2010 at 19:23:04.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ameratsu View Post
    the whole point it to make it more situational...u dnt need to run around powerspammin gth till it lands...a local cooldown is needed..it needs to be a more situational nano instead of a one hit wonder omglolsitdownandcastnowsinceudnthavenano nano.
    Except that my proposed version of GTH doesn't strip anyone of all their nano, it only limits the total size of their nanopool for the duration. It -completely- changes how GTH works, in a way that decreases the total amount of things you can cast, but does not eliminate your ability to cast, not to mention that when the duration ends it gives you back the nano it stole (which means no spending ages refilling a giant nanopool).

    As long as the devs continue to pursue the avenue of GTH completely removing the targets nano, it is going to be overpowered.

    As for cooldown, I'm not opposed to gth getting a bigger recharge via local cooldown, but some recastability has to remain or it will simply be pointless to use. It's already locked out for a period of time once it lands on a target even the current version.
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    A different approach to GTH
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