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Thread: GTH and BR changes. (Info from Means)

  1. #41
    Would you guys be favorable with Borrow Reflect being replaced by an effect like so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    Perhaps there should be a progession in how much BR steals? Like this:
    1-5% - steal 3%
    6-10% - steal 6%
    11-15% - steal 9%
    16-20% - steal 12%
    21-25% - steal 15%
    26-30% - steal 18%
    31-40% - steal 20%
    41-50% - steal 22%
    51-60% - steal 24%
    61% or more - steal 25%

    Also, the benefit for the trader could be halved if he has any external reflect running, meaning that RRFE + BR would only be 42%.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Would you guys be favorable with Borrow Reflect being replaced by an effect like so?
    A scaling BR is very reasonable, for all parties involved. I wont comment on the specific numbers though as we still lack important information about the rest of our toolset and other professions toolsets and so on.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    It's officially considered an exploit so don't count on it. In fact this thread is about to be moderated heavily (unless people edit their own posts first ).
    Was a Nice feature, whether or not if it was intended.

    And my trader could use a break now and then
    Omni Trader on RK2

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Saetos View Post
    Would you guys be favorable with Borrow Reflect being replaced by an effect like so?
    Sounds solid enough, But Wrangeline does bring up a good point. We dont know the changes to other professions nanos to judge against.

    To be honest, I need to get some tutoring from some pro-pvp traders on Rimor, because i die really fast in Tower battles. I hear alot about how painful traders are in pvp, but its obvious to me by reading the forums that I'm doing something really wrong here.

    Here is an example of what im doing:

    1) Drain 1
    2) AS + Fling, Drain 1 is rechanging 2-3 sec
    3) Drain 2 (depending on if it lands) Root, GTH, and if I see a soldier BR.
    4) Most the time, Im targeted by this time and get ALPHA'ed or rooted or snared...

    If lucky, Back off and look for soft targets (half dead or Assist)
    5) AS + Fling..

    Any insight here...
    Omni Trader on RK2

  5. #45
    If GTH now removes a % of your nano instead of just stealing all of it, why not remove the lvl lock? I can understand them not wanting people below 175 using it after how it works atm, but once it removes 15% of your nano the lvl wont matter it will still check how much nano you have.

    If BR doesnt give "god mode" anymore will it still require 175 NCU to get the extra reflect bonus? That is a lot of NCU for just 30% reflects, even though it is a nice benefit it sure isnt god mode lol.
    Krustyleet87 (Adventurer) 220/30
    Rustyleet87 (Engineer) - 220/18 Engi


    Proud Member of Sparta!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Krustyleet87 View Post
    If GTH now removes a % of your nano instead of just stealing all of it, why not remove the lvl lock? I can understand them not wanting people below 175 using it after how it works atm, but once it removes 15% of your nano the lvl wont matter it will still check how much nano you have.

    If BR doesnt give "god mode" anymore will it still require 175 NCU to get the extra reflect bonus? That is a lot of NCU for just 30% reflects, even though it is a nice benefit it sure isnt god mode lol.
    The current proposed change to GTH by the devs (what is currently on test) doesn't just steal a % of your nano, it drains 15% per second for 15 seconds (meaning it still completely empties the targets nanopool).
    Lusthorne - 220 Keeper | Isellthings - 220 Trader - PvP-Config
    Soupknotsie - 220 Doctor | Blabberus - 220 Crat
    and many more

    Boost outdoor sk in Pen/Inf or adjust missions for mixed factions
    A different approach to GTH
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterva View Post
    If you felt that I was implying that you are an idiot, it's probably because you are in fact, an idiot.

  7. #47
    yeah its a better NT killer than ever

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless888 View Post
    yeah its a better NT killer than ever
    sure is...

  9. #49
    drain based on a percentage of the nano pool is a really really bad idea, because it will discourage people from having high nano pools. NTs will stop using IW and strip all their +nano gear, same as when people abused low hp, which is bad as it doesn't make any sense. GTH should drain a fixed amount so people still have a reason to put ip in nano pool and benefit from it.
    Techno "Calamite" Witch -- 220/22 soli crat
    Hbar -- 220/28 nano NT
    Electropanic -- 170/17 opi NT
    Insanenomore - 174/17 soli engi
    Darksmile -- 220/21 nano enf
    Drifting -- 150/8 nano MP
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    got more, but don't remember their names

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamite View Post
    drain based on a percentage of the nano pool is a really really bad idea, because it will discourage people from having high nano pools. NTs will stop using IW and strip all their +nano gear, same as when people abused low hp, which is bad as it doesn't make any sense. GTH should drain a fixed amount so people still have a reason to put ip in nano pool and benefit from it.
    Well the benefit of having a large nanopool is still just as viable for any situation where the NT isn't GTH'd.

    Having that said though, GTH or not, it would be good if FC added some NT and possibly doc-only nanokits that heals a large amount of nanopool or maybe a percentage of nanopool per use. Like 40% of the users nanopool per use.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamite View Post
    drain based on a percentage of the nano pool is a really really bad idea, because it will discourage people from having high nano pools. NTs will stop using IW and strip all their +nano gear, same as when people abused low hp, which is bad as it doesn't make any sense. GTH should drain a fixed amount so people still have a reason to put ip in nano pool and benefit from it.
    I don't see a problem with that. Again, it's like the BR thing. There isn't anything bad about it. It's simply a choice you have to make, the same as you may have to do when swapping any other gear in PVP. Instead of just spamming things like a monkey, people will have to think about what they are doing. I guess people just don't like to think.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamite View Post
    drain based on a percentage of the nano pool is a really really bad idea, because it will discourage people from having high nano pools. NTs will stop using IW and strip all their +nano gear, same as when people abused low hp, which is bad as it doesn't make any sense. GTH should drain a fixed amount so people still have a reason to put ip in nano pool and benefit from it.

    great so NTs wont be able to tank 7 people for 25s now?

    to be honest NTs are borderline sploiting because their low 30% caps still applies when the dmg goes into their 51k+ nano pool, the cap you do on their NBG is still he cap on their hp, not nanopool, so to be blunt, if they start not casting IW so they can actually be harmed again and be closer to a real glass cannon then so be it. someone able to do 10k dmg every 5 seconds on anything and anyone shouldnt be able to tank 7 people.

    as for BR, wheres the choice for soldier? you mean like the choice that makes you insta die because you used your defense? yeah great choices, i like to think in pvp.

    just call it what it is, you like them iwinbuttons

    the new GTH since it only lasts 15s im sure alot will agree is already better than the one before but it is clear as i said above that its devastating for NTs, unlike others i dont hide anything, the soldier in me hates NTs and thus dont mind the new GTH but the solution to NT shouldnt be the new GTH but a rework of their defensive tools, if they make 30% caps apply to their nanopool instead of their HP when they are under NBG, it should fix it i think

  13. #53

  14. #54
    From what I'm seeing. And the fact that br now cancels any reflect the trader has running. It seems it's now a pretty pointless nano to cast. Better to keep rrfe lol. -20 reflect to target is pretty lol-able

    do fc realise how easy it is to get 29% reflect. Will be even more so with the soldiers running rife after this change. If you cast on someone running rrfe you actually nerf your own rrfe and get less reflect for a shorter duration rofl

    if this is the kind of balance adjustments we can expect, things are not looking good for ao. Will be one more ts trader though I guess
    Last edited by Cergorn; Mar 6th, 2010 at 11:50:36.
    Lordplayer: Lets just put it down to people being completely retarded carrying on the "reply nerf to any keeper topic" mentality of years gone by.

    Cergorn 220/30/70 Atrox Keeper
    Yamura 220/30/70 Soli Crat

  15. #55
    Except you could have survived the opponent's alpha, for instance. And you d be about to strike back, launching your offense. You woudn't need the better reflect on you to survive, and the lesser reflect on target may allow you to apply your damage more efficiently.

    So maybe with a 0.1 seconds cast, 50% nr check, so it comes free. Still suck to be left with 18% instead of the original RRFE you supposed to benefit from in mass pvp, versus the usual 30% target. There are prolly some minor/decent uses for it for the smarter pvper out there.

    But it's kinda funny to see FC goin from something totally OP to something so weak in comparaison. Hold your breath.

  16. #56
    1. AMSed soldier (85-87% reflect) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, gain no % over RRFE while the soldier will still have enough reflect not to worry about -20% for only 10s. After 10s, he back to godmode, while you just cut 1h duration off your 30% reflect. Gain 20% for 10s, lose 1h on duration of your RRFE.

    2. Soldier without AMS (43%) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, giving you 22%. Soldier ends up at 24% for 10s, than back to 38%. You gain 11% for 10s, than lose 8% for 55s. Smart soldiers will just wait for you to BR em, than pop AMS.

    3. Random prof with RRFE (30%) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, you both lose 12% for 10s, after which, he back to 30% while you stuck at 18%. Gain nothing, lose 12% for 55s

    4. Random prof with graft vs trader with graft (13%): You land BR, trader loses 4%, target loses 6% for 10s, than back to 13%. You gain 2% for 10s, lose 4% for 55s.

    I really wish they would think it through once more.
    Fixer - Solja Lite
    Adv - Forgotten lubchild
    Trader - Nerfed Professional

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Racatti View Post
    1. AMSed soldier (85-87% reflect) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, gain no % over RRFE while the soldier will still have enough reflect not to worry about -20% for only 10s. After 10s, he back to godmode, while you just cut 1h duration off your 30% reflect. Gain 20% for 10s, lose 1h on duration of your RRFE.

    2. Soldier without AMS (43%) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, giving you 22%. Soldier ends up at 24% for 10s, than back to 38%. You gain 11% for 10s, than lose 8% for 55s. Smart soldiers will just wait for you to BR em, than pop AMS.

    3. Random prof with RRFE (30%) vs trader with RRFE: You land BR, you both lose 12% for 10s, after which, he back to 30% while you stuck at 18%. Gain nothing, lose 12% for 55s

    4. Random prof with graft vs trader with graft (13%): You land BR, trader loses 4%, target loses 6% for 10s, than back to 13%. You gain 2% for 10s, lose 4% for 55s.

    I really wish they would think it through once more.
    I bet BR will add reflect to RRFE instead of replacing it

  18. #58
    Blah hey should just agree on a low number to add (ie 15%) and be done with it imo. There is little point defensive wise to use when you have rrfe, the only good usage is to lower an AMS or maybe, maybe, if you don't have rrfe.

    Or, it shouldn't overwrite rrfe. I mean, you have 30% reflect, you won't get a 12% reflect buff (but from experience we know it may not be that way).

    For the drain part it's pretty okay. We can look forward better stuff now.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonikeep View Post
    I bet BR will add reflect to RRFE instead of replacing it
    As long as you don't put too much money on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    The beneficial buff has a duration of 10 minutes. The debuff on the target has a duration of 10 seconds. This nano has a cooldown of 65 seconds (after casting it..you can't cast it again for 65 seconds...effectively running on the target 10 seconds and a possibility to recast on the target 55 seconds later.). This will work on player and npc targets. The buff component of this debuff will overwrite any reflects the Trader has running at the time. It will also not be possible to cast this on yourself for the longer reflect benefit. Not that a mistake like that would ever be in game for any length of time...sigh.
    Fixer - Solja Lite
    Adv - Forgotten lubchild
    Trader - Nerfed Professional

  20. #60
    10m that it will be changed.
    A debuff which crippels the caster more than the target is plain stupid, even FC will realise this.

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