Fix my broken AC debuffs!

[sobeguy]

This is no news to most traders, but if we aren't talking (ie bitching, whining, and complaining) about it, FC seems to confuse sullen silence with "they're just to happy to even talk!"

Its absolutely silly to leave AC debuffs broken as they are this long. I mean, I took FOREVER to ding 220, hoping the bugs would be addressed before now. No dice.

We even had a thread with means asking how they were broken, a loooong time back. We explained the problems, and then he never followed up with a reply, no confirmation it was a problem, or not a problem - and nothing done about it since.

Click here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=369776

So that was in January - this is September. When can we get at least a cookie and a pat on the back?

A few of the issues with AC debuffing.

Higher debuff frequently debuffs less than a lower one.

A mob with 4000 ac will be debuffed 0 by AP, 3000 by AB, 3000 by ATh, 3000 by AT, 4000 by AG, and 4000 by AA.

The lowest 2 debuffs worked best, and the best one worked worst! Since teh lowest one is supposed to be debuffing 4k, and the highest 25k, in each case the mob should have ended up with 0 ac.

A mob with 18k AC will be debuffed by 10k by AP, 18k by AB, 13k by ATh, 9k by AT, 6500 by AG, and 4000 by AA.

A mob with 17999 AC will be debuffed by 10k by AP, 12k by AB, 13k by ATh, 9k by AT, 6500, by AG, and 4000 by AA.

The top one worked worse AGAIN. The only situation where you have the debuff working flawlessly is the case where the mob has more ac than you try to debuff it.

Playing with it last night, on a RK dyna the top debuff was not effective on dynas around lvl 200. On some, the second best was, on others it was not. The 3rd best effected them all.

They are CLEARLY bugged and not doing what they are supposed to be. Even the lowest one will not always debuff by 4k. Its intended to prevent negative AC's, yet it results in a 4k debuff debuffing 1999 AC to 999 AC. 1k isn't the same as 4k guys - it should drop the mob to 0. Which it does, actually - if the mob has 1 ac more. 2k gets debuffed by 2k.

Please, somone let us know you are AWARE of this, that you can do something about it, and that it isn't considered a "feature" of trader game play. (Remember at char start up it says Trader is "hard" to play? Well, guesing which debuff to use is the hard part hahaha!)

Is it too much to ask to see something like this for traders?

Needless to say we will try to squeeze a fix for this "lack of balance" into 15.8 as this is of the absolute highest priority. Any Engi who has leveled his way to 220 deserves better..and is going to get it ASAP.

- Means, monster designer

[Obtena]

OK OK I'm new to trader prof admittedly. What is all this about broken AC drains? Can you give it to me in a nutshell? I'm assuming there is problems with the SL AC drains but exactly what it is I can't tell. How do I know when I should be using what AC Drain? Are they all broken? Is there a link?

[Zyphoria]

Shaddup Sobe. Traders are balanced and broken as intended.

[sobeguy]

Edited my post above. In a pique of frustration I'd hit submit way before I was ready to!

[Trgeorge]

OK OK I'm new to trader prof admittedly. What is all this about broken AC drains? Can you give it to me in a nutshell? I'm assuming there is problems with the SL AC drains but exactly what it is I can't tell. How do I know when I should be using what AC Drain? Are they all broken? Is there a link?

SL AC drains work differently on mobs with differnent AC. As they work now, higher ones can debuff less as lower ones (as slim gave examples). Problem is, we have no way of knowing how much AC specific mob has.

I think I noticed some reply somewhere they work as intended. That might be true, since we have no way of telling. But if working as intended, there is design flaw with them. If traders solo, they can't experiment which works best at certain mob. If they are in team, mobs usually die too soon to figure it out.

[Afelia]

Sobe, when did you last send your concerns to Feedback@anarchy-online.com?

[sobeguy]

Same time I made this post!

[Obtena]

OK i looked at the SL drain nanos. I get the idea that for a given nano they debuff at different amounts that is a function of the mob's AC. (The Less AC, the less it drains). I guess the problem is the fact that you really don't know what AC debuff to use for a given situation, seeing that we have no way to tell what that mob's AC is. I'm not certain atm (and not really qualified to comment) if that is a bug or a design flaw in the nanoline. (i'm thinking it's more a design flaw since the way the nanoline determines the amount of AC debuff is kinda complicated and rediculous.) To me, there is no reason that it can't just debuff a flat rate.

So from Reading Sobe's post, it seems that the SAFEST thing to do to ensure some sort of AC debuffing is to use the lowest one.

[Osball]

Why cant the SL ones work like the RK ones? Just debuff a set amount. Just like the Skill Drains(Divest and Plunder). And if it goes into negative numbers then the AC is set to 0. It would make much more sense an prevent confusion, especially since we have no idea(i dont think) how much ACs mobs have.

[EternalNoob]

Why cant the SL ones work like the RK ones? Just debuff a set amount. Just like the Skill Drains(Divest and Plunder). And if it goes into negative numbers then the AC is set to 0. It would make much more sense an prevent confusion, especially since we have no idea(i dont think) how much ACs mobs have.

Because that would make sense.

[Micas]

These things honestly look like they had the intern code it. Have you looked at the effects list? It would be so easy to just delete that whole thing and do all ACs -25k.

And as far as I can tell, the RK drains work just fine on mobs with less than 1k AC, so theyre isn't some inherent problem with AC trying to drop below 0. If there were, it shouldn't be too complicated to globally make the change that negative AC = 0 AC.

What I'm saying is, we're talking about one hour of coding time here. A simple fix that would go a long way for a prof that needs it.

What's the best way to really get this brought to the Dev's attention? Can we contact Silirrion, or can our Professional bring this up through more formal means somehow?

It just seems they may be shelving profession wishlists until some later date, as I suppose some requests can take time, but we're talking about an extremely simple fix here...

[puxx]

I liked them better when they had zero cast times (or was that just the NR debuff?).

[Tergx]

Because that would make sense.

hehehe sad but so true

[sobeguy]

Well part of the reason they look like spaghetti is that they used to debuff way more than they should, and it got "emergency" style fixed. Ever since though, they've debuffed less than they should.

And we all know - for FC a bug isn't a bug unless it A) helps the player or B) upsets an Adventurer

[Micas]

And we all know - for FC a bug isn't a bug unless it A) helps the player or B) upsets and Adventurer

lmao...

[Blackcradle]

I know this isn't really a bug, but another issue with the AC debuffs (not sure about the highest 3 versions) is that they seem to be less effective in the sided SL missions. I recently hit 203 on my trader and completed spec 4 and was excited about using the new -9k debuff (since the lower two seem to be useless for the most part) and it makes basically no difference at all in the majority of the missions I do, which are mostly Pen/hard. I notice it works on some much lower level mobs which are light orange to yellowish in color, but above that I don't even bother using it anymore as it makes no difference. It seems stupid that I would have to wait til lvl 212 to use an AC debuff that actually makes a difference (I am hoping). I'm sure the inferno mission mobs have even higher ACs than their pen equivalents do, so this doesn't look to promising either...

[MrKrosis]

If the whole issue is they do not want the mobs to have negative AC (is this even the issue?).. why not just replace all of the

if ac >= whatever, target modify AC -whatever
etc
etc

with something like (for AP)
If Target AC <= 25000, Target Change AC 0
If Target AC > 25000, Target Modify AC -25000

There. If the mob has less than 25k, drop their AC to zero. If they have more, debuff it 25k.

[Afelia]

Negative AC shall have been fixed now, so the stepping should no longer be needed.

It was kinda fun though, after we got the AC debufs. The 13k made Tara have 0 AC, then added -5k from Engies, -2k from regular debufs etc, and I did 7.5k Crits on Tarasque, and MAs did 11k crits. That changed way back.

[dzzirus]

Only thing i know is that AC debuffs doesnt work and i want a fix for em.

[Micas]

So really, how do we go about getting the attention of FC?

Can community advisor types, Trader Professionals, etc bring it up?

Should we all email feedback, or send some type of "signed' group email?

Anyone had success with a similar easy-to-fix bug?

I mean it's one thing asking for new tools and such that have to be thought out and "balanced", but for a simple bug, we ought to be able to convince someone that this would be an easy and very appreciated fix.