low HP in pvp

[Obtena]

All I'm saying, is people shouldn't get an advantage for anything they purposely decrease except for obvious ones; like not iping body dev = more IP in other places, but it shouldn't lead to more survivability in terms of having less of it.

It's like saying: because I didn't IP evades I should do just fine as compared to the person that did.

Of course people who actually believe things should work the way you say they should is quite a minority

Well, the minority has been FC for as long as .... until now at least.

But I can see that point you are making. Unfortunately the solutions I see hear would require FC to make an AO2 to solve them. making 'maximum HP' THE ideal situation is just as bad an approach to the game as what is currently implemented.

[Vgman01]

Well, the minority has been FC for as long as .... until now at least.

But I can see that point you are making. Unfortunately the solutions I see hear would require FC to make an AO2 to solve them. making 'maximum HP' THE ideal situation is just as bad an approach to the game as what is currently implemented.

I just dont see how you can be against the idea of people wanting to get the most hp possible when you seem compleatly ok with the idea that every one should try to get the most AR and defence/aad possible. If any thing I'd say your just scared of the possible changes should it occor. None of this thread really matters though. As said many many times the only way to fix it would be to give ao in its entirety a good modifieing and thats just not something the devs are likely to do. At least not right now (if ever).

[Mostadio]

I have to agree with Obtena here. You also have to remember that this is a GAME. We are given a list of rules and mechanics that we are bound to and we adjust our characters to use those mechanics to our advantage. This is fair so long as there are disadvantages to our choices.

HP value is one of those things that has large advantages in key situations and overwhelming disadvantages in others. Low HP isn't something that works on every class at every level range. And in fact, in most of these "key situations" you're not aiming for HP that's ultra low. You want low, but not too low. The main reason for this is capping hits, especially aimed shot since everybody and their mother has the option of using this special and obtaining a capped hit.

The second reason is the reliability if their evades. Since the dawn of time people have gone "lolwut evades, dood hit me with capped FA through dof/limber/touch of marius" yet at the same time, just about anybody that goes against one of these guys damns the uselessness of their perks and prays that their aimed shots have speedy recharge and their normals land with the blessing of whatever deity they're praying to, because otherwise they don't have a chance.

You can cry all you want about low HP not making sense to you. It doesn't have to. The developers don't have to explain their reasons and rationale to you. Other players get it and they're the ones using it. The eventual rebalancing effort may or may not solve this. Nobody really knows what FC is up to and based on forum feedback and the trader "nerfs" FC doesn't really know either. Personally, I rather like it the way it is. Players put themselves into a "pvp setup". They make conscious decisions and changes, things they wouldn't do in mindless pvm zergathons which has very little fluctuation in difficulty, compared to pvp which is like a crackerjack box, you never know what you're going to get.

PS: I seriously doubt Obtena is "afraid" of the incoming changes. From what I've read, he would just rather we have as many choices as possible and as much variation as possible, rather than "one setup to rule them all" which any drooling idiot can obtain by following extremely generic rules: get HP, get offense, get defense, roll the dice and see who wins. If I wanted that I'd go play wow.

[Dethrattle]

Still wondering why low hp must vanish.

Anybody got a somewhat decent reason?

low HP setups are counter-intuitive, having more HP should be a good thing. FC should focus on *why* so many people are using low HP setups(as a workaround mechanic, MP being a great example) and do things to correct said proffessions abilities to mitigate damage.

[Obtena]

I just dont see how you can be against the idea of people wanting to get the most hp possible when you seem compleatly ok with the idea that every one should try to get the most AR and defence/aad possible.

Great, you are telling me things I haven't said now too? You're my new friend.

[Vgman01]

Great, you are telling me things I haven't said now too? You're my new friend.

saying "you seem ok with it" means that im saying that you said it outright? No it means im making an assumtion based on your posts. Not once did you claim that people shouldnt try to go for the highest AR and AAD they can get their hands on. If my assumtion was wrong then please feal free to make a post stating so and continue to show us how incredibly messed up your line of thinking is.

[Obtena]

Wow you made and assumption. That's awesome, especially when you use it to try to make a point. Not much more needs to be said about that.

Anyways, nothing is 'broken' with low HP in PVP, so there is no reason to fix it. It's just another choice to make. If that offends your sensibilities about how MMO's SHOULD work, go play one that follows that rule and be happy. The only messed up thinking is when people push a high HP solution to some imaginary problem as a fix when they don't understand the implications that would have in PVP, especially for lower HP classes. /shrug. At least FC isn't going to listen to you.

[erozc]

HP is the only stat I can think of that doesn't follow the "more is better"-rule. If one's arguing it makes sense, I would like a taste of what you're smoking.

Still, there are several underlying issues that make a "HP fix" nigh impossible. There are huge amounts of variation of HP across professions. Even disregarding SL essences, the difference an enf, doc or soldier can achieve in a reasonable equip versus what say, a fixer can achieve, would seriously tilt the balance in a way nobody's analyzed yet.

It's a stupid mechanic but we may just have to live with it.

[Drakeep]

this thread about lowhp setup is totally pointless.

U can do a low hpsetuped toon, but there's always an evil nt ( like me <3) that triplezor u to reclaim.

And beside duels, its also a big risk when facing many opponents.

PS: Ops triplezors will be taken away!... YES NERF LOW HP SETUPS!

[Mostadio]

HP is the only stat I can think of that doesn't follow the "more is better"-rule. If one's arguing it makes sense, I would like a taste of what you're smoking.

It makes sense when you look at the mechanics of THIS game. You know, the one we are talking about. Rather than the broad spectrum of mainstream roleplaying. In other games it doesn't make sense, but nobody cares. We're not playing those and we're not talking about those. Apparently the only problem is "it doesn't make sense in other games."

[Burgly]

I don't understand the fuzz really, i resetted body dev. and it works the way i use my shade, but it sucks for mass pvp. So its not only positive by going low hp, still got like 12k hp with body dev completely resetted. To have any chance of surviving a KEC3 sol f. eks, i need to go down to at least 7-8k hp to be able to have any chance of out healing it, but that means losing atleast 200 aad and that means regulars land more often, atm cib counters that in most cases, but i bet it wont after balance when cib is 30s duration and AMS is still 1:20.

Sorry for the side track btw, KEC3 sol vs. low hp setups is the best compare i can think of htis early morning.

[Vgman01]

It makes sense when you look at the mechanics of THIS game. You know, the one we are talking about. Rather than the broad spectrum of mainstream roleplaying. In other games it doesn't make sense, but nobody cares. We're not playing those and we're not talking about those. Apparently the only problem is "it doesn't make sense in other games."

So AO shouldnt try to use game mechanics that a majority of people are familer and comfertable with. Instead it should branch off and be its own game and any one wanting to play it should have to adapt to it or not play it? I would have to say no. Thats not the way to get more people playing this game.

[Mostadio]

So AO shouldnt try to use game mechanics that a majority of people are familer and comfertable with. Instead it should branch off and be its own game and any one wanting to play it should have to adapt to it or not play it? I would have to say no. Thats not the way to get more people playing this game.

Read what you just wrote. Read it slowly so you can comprehend it. Everyone cries about AO turning into every other MMO and you're telling me that it should be just like all the other ones? I mean, how dare AO have its own special mechanics that take 30 seconds of explanation to understand. And it's only about 4 classes in pvp situations where this actually has any bearing. Get a grip, this isn't gamebreaking in any sense.

[Vgman01]

Read what you just wrote. Read it slowly so you can comprehend it. Everyone cries about AO turning into every other MMO and you're telling me that it should be just like all the other ones? I mean, how dare AO have its own special mechanics that take 30 seconds of explanation to understand. And it's only about 4 classes in pvp situations where this actually has any bearing. Get a grip, this isn't gamebreaking in any sense.

There is nothing wrong with taking ideas that have been proven to work and re using them. I could easily complain that a game like runescape is to similar to wow but dose that make me right? Its a matter of opinion on wheather or not to diffrent things have to many similarities. In every other mmo more hp is a good thing in every situation. With every other stat in AO more of it is a good thing in every situation. Why should hp be diffrent? A majority of people will hear "Yea well with thease classes in pvp you actualy want less hp because its better for you" and they will think "god that sounds prety screwed up im not sure if i want to play this game".

[Scottik]

Low HP ain't overpowered it has huge disadvantages as well. Yes, it's an obvious flaw in game design but it can't fixed effectively so why does this thread continue at all?

[Burgly]

Remove all unavoidable capping specials. Fixed

[Mostadio]

Remove all unavoidable capping specials. Fixed

Then we have problems lol. And you know this. but atm, working as intended But doods complain about things now. Nobody knows what will happen "then". And I doubt many will play "then", if this "then" happens.

[Parranoid1]

There is nothing wrong with taking ideas that have been proven to work and re using them. I could easily complain that a game like runescape is to similar to wow but dose that make me right? Its a matter of opinion on wheather or not to diffrent things have to many similarities. In every other mmo more hp is a good thing in every situation. With every other stat in AO more of it is a good thing in every situation. Why should hp be diffrent? A majority of people will hear "Yea well with thease classes in pvp you actualy want less hp because its better for you" and they will think "god that sounds prety screwed up im not sure if i want to play this game".

Frankly your taking mid-late/late game mechanics and throwing it on to an imaginary person thats just started.

If your forgetting More hp = better for all pvm situations, which is basically all new players will be doing when they start, and if they do do some pvp its just to muck around to try it out,And even then it would mostly be in situations where low hp setups arnt viable anyways due to the lack of healing or high enough evades to make it effective.

The time where this becomes effective would mostly be at TL5 for some and mostly at tl7, by which time i would guess that a brand new player would be in the game for at least a few months, so i dont think they would go "wow im 210 and low HP is better for my fixer? this game is stupid!! *ragequit*".

So saying that this mechanic will fend off new players isnt thinking very broadly.

[Senggum]

At 150 with maxed atributes there is a 750 HP differnce between the lowest (doc, NT, Engi and MP) and highest (enfo) as any breed and 1161 HP difference between trox enfo and NM doc. As we can see this difference is minimal, when you IP BD the gap widens to 2223. But the real difference is when it comes to gear...... to be a effective/good enfo you will want AR and HP from your gear meaning merc maybe mixed with ofab which will give quite a bit of HP but, as a caster (gonna exclude doc as they have a couple different builds that are useful) your gonna want evades and nanoskills, so that means scouts and maybe OFAB giving no where near the same HP.

Now with all this and thanks to two mechanics called aimed shot and sneak attack casters main defense is ignored meaning inorder for us to counter act this we need to make sure our HP is at a level we can heal 30% of our HP every 11sec or so.

Now at TL7 there is really only 2 professions that try to go really low HP, fixers and MAs... I suppose shield MP could/would as well but its because of the trpe of healing they have. % based hots are a steap in the right direction for fixers and if extended to other lines I doubt you would still see low HP fixers. MA's heal recharge put them in a tough spot and low HP for them only works for 1on1 situations... MP's have a pretty good defensive toolset with shield equiped but can't kill anything.

I agree something needs to be done so all profession can go high HP without making survivability sacrifices but forcing it without making changes to current tools/mechanics is dumb.

[Obtena]

You guys are just inventing the problem to get the solution you want to see, when no problem exists. Where is this an issue? I mean, am I delusional? I KNOW i'm not seeing low HP professions running around destroying everyone with high HP in PVP and I'm not seeing High HP people crying nerf on low HP people. So what is the problem you are solving by 'fixing' low HP profs for PVP? It's made up. Whatever problem you are solving, you are just making other ones that you are too short sighted to not see and that's just dumb.