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Thread: Respawn time on Smuggler's Den mantis mobs

  1. #1

    Respawn time on Smuggler's Den mantis mobs

    20 minutes is excessive I think. We have a lot of people killing the mobs for daily mishes and there is a long time to complete the mission if another player needs your mobs.

  2. #2
    No.. that is an old instance set for (IMO) for two things, three in fact, in fact more.

    1. Mantis Eggs
    2. Reflect Bracers
    3. Mantis armor

    I'm ok that new lore and quests raise the benefit of the old school content. But I'm not ok to change it.

    Just my 2cents

  3. #3
    With the sheer number of Den missions I've been getting (several in a row on the same char), I have to agree that the respawn time is way too long. And that is true for all regular mobs in there.
    ಠ_ಠ

  4. #4
    The respawn rate is slow there and some other areas we're expected to farm now like outside SL mobs can be. Although while increasing the spawn rate a good bit helps those that can handle themselves just fine what of the others?

    Often enough in smuggs I see a 220 or the like zipping along with some lowbie in tow or left at the door as the 220 insta kills everything in sight. In some cases they may just be killing their way to the destination area so many to even all of the kills weren't needed by them. To a 220 the respawn rate will seem painfully slow but for those that just crawl through a greatly increased spawn rate will mean mobs will be spawning on top of them making it not something they can survive. That would mean they'll be even more inclined to delete smuggs missions which as stated show up often and for a long time (around lvl 105-199 it seems).

    Missions that send you to such zones are fine but the kill this many of these mobs missions were not a good idea. A better option would be ones more along the lines of find an item or what not types. The crates one in smuggs is a good example of that. Killing the mobs is no problem as they're unrelated, there's a modest number of crates and they respawn quickly enough. They could add other things to retrieve to replace the kill ones like something from that room with the mantis bantlings for the low lvl mantis killing mission, one of the mantis eggs on the ground of the mantis queen room (a different type from the old loot ones) for the high lvl mantis killing mission then something from the office of the smugger head for the smuggler killing one.

  5. #5
    I am only referring to the regular mobs, not the bosses.

    I have also had froobs about 100ish go through smugglers, a 5 minute respawn would not kill me but may be a bit short, I would say 10 minutes would be more than adequate but 20 minutes is simply far too long.

  6. #6
    How about just making Mantis Den bigger? Add more mantises and keep the current spawn timer. Just cause the game suddenly is populated again in certain areas is not a good reason to change spawn timers imo

  7. #7
    How about attempting to get inside another GS?

  8. #8
    Bump for 10 minute respawns, anything more is just stupid.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I am only referring to the regular mobs, not the bosses.

    I have also had froobs about 100ish go through smugglers, a 5 minute respawn would not kill me but may be a bit short, I would say 10 minutes would be more than adequate but 20 minutes is simply far too long.
    I realize you're talking about regular mobs and not bosses but it's still the same as for one thing there's some higher lvl ones mixed in with the lowbies here and there, they have a decent amount of health for their lvl and there's a lot of them. An average fr00b or even pay char of a new player going through there alone could certainly have problems and with as many of those mobs as there are it's not too hard to get overwhelmed. That's with things as they are, if they respawn quickly it'd be even worse.

    The reason it seems so bad now is that someone goes in with some high lvl char and insta kills everything in sight. So now a wide area is empty and will stay empty for a good stretch. If people came in with their chars and tried to only kill what they needed to and slowly pushed through there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem here.

    Also remember that right now the population isn't that great and there's never or very rarely ever that many in there. I'd have to wonder when the last time there was enough in there to get another GS was. Now image what these and other kill this many of these mobs dailies in open dungeons would be like if we had more people.

    The issue about current vs a larger population is another reason to move away from kill type dailies in open areas. Find, return, target or other such tasks where you interact with something in an open area would be better. You'd still often have to kill stuff to get to the destination but at least that wouldn't cause problems for others doing other types of dailies there. Also they could still add kill dailies in private zones like we have now.


    Quote Originally Posted by MachSchau View Post
    How about attempting to get inside another GS?
    I really doubt that'd be possible as there's not that many people in there.

  10. #10
    Honestly, there is no way to get overwhelmed with a 10 minute respawn. It never took my 120ish MP and Advy froobs more than a minute to kill the lower level mantis asside from the earthmelders who are a bit sturdier. If the problem is a level 90 average geared toon could get stuck in Smuggler's, that is not much of an issue as the dungeon should not be based around a level 90 progressing into the deep areas of smuggler's alone.

    For the higher level mantis I watched a 180ish froob killing them just fine, a soldier or fixer with blackbirds. The mobs are not clustered in groups of 10 to 15 asside from two areas, you can progress safely if you pull and there are several safe spots in between areas with mobs. The only way to be overwhelmed in smuggler's is to train and not have mezzes.

  11. #11
    Bump for cutting the spawn time to 10 minutes, especially for the higher level mantises. At least with the low level ones, its possible to kill your 3, then calm/snare/sneak your way past the rest to the next batch. But the high-level ones? You need to kill 5, and there's MAYBE 6 or 7 of the first few types, meaning one person is all it takes to screw anyone that comes in a minute too late.

  12. #12
    Got the high-level mantis killing mission on my 184 enforcer yesterday. First attempt, I was going solo and doing fine but managed to do a bad pull and had to run out. I continued a few hours later, bringing an NT from my second account to mezz mobs, both to get me back to where I was faster and to counter possible bad pulls. This time I bumped into another person who was doing the same mission. Fortunately we were both sensible enough to team up to avoid fighting for mobs with each other. Still, it took almost an hour to complete the mission since apparently someone else had been through just before so we had to wait 1-5 minutes for each mod to spawn.

    10 minute spawntime would have cut the time to at least half, probably even more. Any higher would likely have caused me trouble soloing in the cavern with nano-mantises and hive guardians.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Honestly, there is no way to get overwhelmed with a 10 minute respawn. It never took my 120ish MP and Advy froobs more than a minute to kill the lower level mantis asside from the earthmelders who are a bit sturdier. If the problem is a level 90 average geared toon could get stuck in Smuggler's, that is not much of an issue as the dungeon should not be based around a level 90 progressing into the deep areas of smuggler's alone.
    Sure there is.
    • There are a lot of those mobs.
    • You could get agged by more than you'd suspect.
    • Other players could come along and drop off many more new friends for you to play with.
    • Some higher lvl mobs not far from the lower lvl ones could get mixed in with the lower ones you're fighting or were brought to you by someone else that got in over their heads or are training to some location (they can follow you forever now).
    • The last person through could have been a 220 that insta killed the mobs so instead of one extra mob at a rate you can deal with a mass of then could suddenly pop up around you.

    Those earthmelders are among the least of your worries really, the lower lvl mantis mission also includes bantlings. Bantlings are mean bastards for a lower lvl char and you could get multiple bantlings wacking at you at a time. Then there's ravagers I think it was just inside that door near the start which someone could wander into then come charging out of with a mess of agg. Those are even worse from what I remember.

    Then your references proving all would be fine are an advy and a MP. Both have heals, MPs can bring some good lvl pets for that lvl of dungeon and advies have been called over powered for years.



    You're also not seeing the big picture here. Even if the spawn rate is made shorter to make things better as it is now add more people to the game and it will no longer be sufficient again. Some missions send you to the smugglers area which is past the lower lvl mantis area. People going to the smugglers area would likely kill off many of the lower lvl mantises messing things up for those doing the lower lvl mantis missions. No matter what they do with the spawn timers there would always be problems with these kill type missions and some degree of standing around waiting for spawns. However you slice it these kill multiple mob type missions in an open area and even worse an open dungeon are a bad idea. Target types for mobs that can be killed and are desirable like that one elite daily where you target Dreadloch item camp bosses can be even worse as those for instance have even longer spawn times by far plus also must be done in order.

    The best solution is to just do away with these types of kill (and target) mob missions in open areas and especially open dungeons entirely. Change them to something else that still requires you to get to a location you will need to deal with mobs to get to. Then you would target, retrieve, interact with or whatever some item or NPC (that can't be attacked) located there.

    Some of the dailies are like that already and aren't a problem since you don't need to wait for spawns and so forth. If the mobs on route are dead then lucky you. If not then you have some added work. Either way there are no problems with killing order, running out of mobs or spawn times as there always will be with these kill types in open areas and especially dungeons.

  14. #14
    I do not think you realize how gimp my MP and adventurer were lol. Most of your complaints are about people training each other. Your instant spawn point is nullified by the fact that if it is a 10 minute, 20 minute, or 1 hour spawn, if they were all killed by a 220 at the same time they would all respawn at the same time regardless.

    This questline is seperated with a reward for each part, and progresses through the dungeon. If you are too weak, ill prepared, or needed a team, then you would only progress as far as your effort would determine. If you cannot handle the bantlings, then get help or cancel the quest. You only lose a small chunk of the total reward for what may be the only difficult part of the entire quest. Either way, taking away content is not the answer, and there is still no viable excuse agaisnt a 10 minute respawn. The questline is perfectly fine, the issue is merely waiting on mobs to respawn.

    Also, my 90 NT can solo smuggler's, ravagers to queen asside. Effort = reward.
    Last edited by Gatester; Jun 8th, 2010 at 18:21:20.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Most of your complaints are about people training each other.
    Training is only part of the problem. I did mention other things like mob volume, odd agg and harder mobs not far off or mixed in with weaker ones.

    As I've said though reducing the spawn time won't cut it. All that will do is reduce the impact of the problem as it is now with the player volume we have now. What I suggested though removes the problem entirely. No waiting for any mobs to respawn, fighting over kills and so forth. There's still always going to be training but that's a problem created by other players.

    Furthermore are you sure it's a twenty minute respawn? Have you actually killed some, made a note of the time then waited till they came back and checked the time again? I've seen many people spout off long respawn times of this or that like saying they don't want to wait an hour for a prisoner to respawn when they have a fifteen minute spawn timer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Either way, taking away content is not the answer, and there is still no viable excuse agaisnt a 10 minute respawn. The questline is perfectly fine, the issue is merely waiting on mobs to respawn.
    And guess what, reduced or not you will still be waiting on respawns. Your fix is only a partial one as it does not actually correct the problem of waiting for mobs to respawn, it only lessens it. My suggested change does completely remove that problem. Would you rather take measures to lessen the symptoms of your illness or would you rather have the illness cured?

    Then I'm not saying remove those types of dailies in open dungeons and that's it. I'm saying they should change them to something else that would work more effectively.

    I'm still not seeing a valid reason why these missions in open dungeons are a more effective option than other types as people have been complaining about the kill mob dailies in open dungeons since they first were introduced. If it's not in regards to the spawn times then it's the fixed kill order or other things. That's even when our current population is rather low. Should it ever improve then those issues would only be worsened as there'd be more people fighting over kills and such.

    Also with these types of dailies there's no need for the char with the mission to go beyond the foyer of the dungeon or where ever. Just have it team with a 220, park itself somewhere in the zone and the 220 can zip around killing the mobs in question with ease and in no time at all. The char with the mission will still get the updates and still get the full reward. At least with my suggested change they could be required to go to some location or locations in the zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Also, my 90 NT can solo smuggler's, ravagers to queen asside. Effort = reward.
    And my lvl __ of prof __ can do stuff others have said can't be done at that lvl. What's your point? These dailies aren't suppose to be just for hardcore twinks and people with the gear you know. A lot of how well you do in AO can depend on your gear and resources to get gear. You and I for instance can have decked out chars able to manage content well below the intended lvl of said content but many others and most especially new players don't.

  16. #16
    Look, there are rarely any trains, there are rarely instances of wild aggro that is almost always the fault of the player, and these high level mobs that are "nearby" are isolated on an entirely different path. None of the things you are claiming have happened to me in all the times I have gone through smugglers. Even when a 220 "almost" trained me, he stopped and killed off his train rather than tackling me with mobs I could have honestly survived without his help. The only thing I have been doing in smuggler's is waiting on mobs to respawn.

    Reducing spawn times, allow mobs to be killed in any order, and viola the dungeon daily is fixed. Why must you insist on this campaign on removing content? Do you realize how nice it is to get mutliple levels and significant amounts of tokens from a single daily? This could not happen in your suggested change.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    And my lvl __ of prof __ can do stuff others have said can't be done at that lvl. What's your point? These dailies aren't suppose to be just for hardcore twinks and people with the gear you know. A lot of how well you do in AO can depend on your gear and resources to get gear. You and I for instance can have decked out chars able to manage content well below the intended lvl of said content but many others and most especially new players don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Then your references proving all would be fine are an advy and a MP. Both have heals, MPs can bring some good lvl pets for that lvl of dungeon and advies have been called over powered for years.
    My NT is neither OP in pvm, has no heals, and is at the lowest level end of players that would even attempt to enter Smuggler's. I can solo just fine, and your wild claims of danger are quite hollow. I do not think you are even arguing to support anyone but are simply being too stubborn to understand no one wants what you want, a removal of content.

  17. #17
    Guys listen to phoenix, if the mobs had 10 min respawns the earth would explode.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Reducing spawn times, allow mobs to be killed in any order, and viola the dungeon daily is fixed. Why must you insist on this campaign on removing content? Do you realize how nice it is to get mutliple levels and significant amounts of tokens from a single daily? This could not happen in your suggested change.
    I don't think she's so much campaigning to remove it, but to turn it into an instance where you won't have any competition for the mobs, perhaps with the entrance at the same location or near to the current Smuggler's Den instance. On one hand that would be nice to be able to get the kills without interference, but on the other hand I also liked how the mission gave me a reason to visit a static dungeon I had never before been in. Making it an instance would take the latter away.

    Turning the kill missions into tagging was also mentioned. This might not be the optimal solution though; if someone has killed all the mobs, you still have to wait for respawn. You'll also have to deal with the mobs somehow to get deeper into the dungeon and tag further mobs, and for many profs the only way to deal with mobs is to kill them.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Look, there are rarely any trains, there are rarely instances of wild aggro that is almost always the fault of the player, and these high level mobs that are "nearby" are isolated on an entirely different path.
    So just because you claim to have never seen something of the sort means it doesn't exist? There are trains and always have been trains in this zone or others as someone dashes off to one location and doesn't want to deal with the mobs between point A and point B. If you haven't seen that then lucky you, but I can assure you that it does happen.

    While maybe some might stop to clean up their mess, not all do. In fact some not wanting the competition can do jackass stuff like train on purpose. Some trains I've picked up were from a guy trying to dash from here to there expecting the mobs to give up quickly and didn't care about the people caught in between. Although they didn't give up and he kept running all over wildly gathering more and more mobs then came running back towards me and died. So now there's a big mass of not so friendly mobs of various lvl ranges right around me. How many people on their own that don't have AoE crowd control do you think could handle that just fine?

    Odd agg, been there. For instance I'm fighting a mob in one room then the ones in the next room with a wall and no door between us agg me, circle around to where the door is and come in. As mantises are all social with each other the higher ones are just as likely to come over as the lower ones. Also if you're in a group then that always pulls more agg from further than if you're on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Reducing spawn times, allow mobs to be killed in any order, and viola the dungeon daily is fixed. Why must you insist on this campaign on removing content? Do you realize how nice it is to get mutliple levels and significant amounts of tokens from a single daily? This could not happen in your suggested change.
    As I said it's not fixed with your solution. If you don't kill in order or someone just killed them before you got there you still have to wait around for spawns. Your fix doesn't remove spawn time waiting, it just reduces it. Also what if we do get more in the game so more people are trying to do the same mission and just as always not everyone wants to team? Your fix doesn't cure things then either, mine still works just fine though.

    Also as I've said I'm not asking for them to remove those missions, just change them to another type so there is no waiting around for spawns and the like rather than just reduced waiting. If the changed missions have multiple steps then just as these kill ones give you small rewards at each step so can the changed ones. Try reading what was written for a change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    My NT is neither OP in pvm, has no heals, and is at the lowest level end of players that would even attempt to enter Smuggler's.
    NTs do have crowd control which can be as good or even better than heals in cases of trying to deal with a large number of mobs carefully.






    -----------------------------






    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    I don't think she's
    I'm a guy, I just liked the avatar. I mean if every female char in game was actually played by a female there'd be a hell of a lot of women playing AO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    so much campaigning to remove it, but to turn it into an instance where you won't have any competition for the mobs
    If you mean an instance as in a situation where there is no need to fight over kills as the kills were not the goal then that's correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    perhaps with the entrance at the same location or near to the current Smuggler's Den instance.
    Would only help when trying to do the smuggler area missions. Both mantis killing ones have you killing mobs starting from the mobs at or near the current door.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    On one hand that would be nice to be able to get the kills without interference, but on the other hand I also liked how the mission gave me a reason to visit a static dungeon I had never before been in. Making it an instance would take the latter away.
    It like most other dungeons would likely create new GSs when populated enough. Although there is no need to make it a personal instance as there are other options. When it comes to kills in an open area there will always be interference, waiting for respawns and so forth. As that is the case and isn't fun then the best option clearly would be to move away from specific kill related tasks for such locations.

    This is especially the case in open dungeons as there the mobs are all confined in a tight little area with a known and limited number of each mob type. You largely can only move forwards and back which can make getting away from possible trouble more difficult. Also having less room to maneuver means getting around mobs of one type to get at others of the required type is more difficult to impossible without dealing with the in between mobs in some fashion. In outside areas you have more space to move and mobs of a given type can be located in more than one area of the zone. There can also be fairly open spaces with few to no mobs which allows you to try to pull, move and avoid things more freely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikenche View Post
    Turning the kill missions into tagging was also mentioned.
    Nooo! I said killable mob tagging missions can be as bad or worse and should be changed along with the kill ones. Like the tagging of the Dreadloch item camp bosses elite mission, that's a lousy mission. The things I referred to as alternatives were missions to find, return or interact with things which were not killable or destroyable. So the goal would always be there, you'd just have to get there alive.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    I'm a guy, I just liked the avatar. I mean if every female char in game was actually played by a female there'd be a hell of a lot of women playing AO.
    My mistake. I had nothing else to go by besides your avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Nooo! I said killable mob tagging missions can be as bad or worse and should be changed along with the kill ones. Like the tagging of the Dreadloch item camp bosses elite mission, that's a lousy mission. The things I referred to as alternatives were missions to find, return or interact with things which were not killable or destroyable. So the goal would always be there, you'd just have to get there alive.
    If you read the rest of the paragraph, I said that turning them into a tagging missions doesn't really solve much anything.

    I had somehow managed to miss your post where your explained your solution. Now that I found it, I'll admit that I was totally incorrect about it. Putting a non-killable NPC as a target would solve the congestion problem, but it would also nullify the advantage we just got with the multi-stage missions. They would be back to half an hour or more of work, and if you die, you're back to where you started. Also, missions where you have to get past mobs to a target put CC profs at a huge advantage; they can mezz or snare their way to the target in a matter of minutes, even at low levels, while profs without CC tools have to take the slow way of killing everything in between and risking death. Unless it's made so that you can make a mad rush to the target's known location, tag it and immediately die as the dozens of mobs catch up to you. The smuggler killing mission is very annoying in this sense, as you first have to get past the mantises and then kill the smugglers, some of which are bight red to a player at the lower end of the range.

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