Yes, thats what I'm getting at, the template.Originally Posted by Kazeran
I think some profs, those with access to "Artillery" symbs should have the highest ranked template, say, with multipliers at 80 skill (for example).
Infantry, support, and others, should be much higher skill intervals, say, 120.
Some weapons though still should have designated MBSS's I think. Clearly a pistol can't be aimed, or sniped. But thats a problem with weapon design, not template design.
This made me wonder.
You do realize that professions like doctors, crats, ... already do far worse AS's than agents and still worse AS's than other artillery oriented professions?
When I compare doctor with agent AS, I find that doctors are currently are at the following disadvanteges:
- Lower damage multiplier above 1000 AR:
- Agent has about 50%, so with a 2600 MBS weapon that gives him a multiplier of 1+(1000+1600/2)/400 ~= 5.5
- Doctor has what could just as well be 0 as multiplier, which gives 1+1000/400 ~= 3.5
- Lower AS skill, which gives
- a lower max multiplier
- probably a lower median multiplier
- possibly a lower minimum multiplier as well
- and also longer AS recharge with most weapons, making the choices more limited for doctors and also requiring dedicated setups. For a profession that can hardly hit with normal hits, equiping a weapon with the biggest AS with the fastest recharge possible is a logical thing to do. Cobra > Lust if one has the skills (except for the gimmicky nanos that FC made up).
- Also lower +damage which make the base AS of doctors even lower compared to artillery profs.
- And finally, lower crit chance as well (lower AR combined with less crit items/nanos), certainly when compared to agents.
The way the game was originally designed, already makes it so that professions with higher skill can make better use of those abilities than professions with lower skills in them. You are suggesting to implement something that is already there.
"Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 bureaucrat*: Starting 12man, need Enfo, Doc, Keeper, reflects."
"Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 doctor*: Looking for crat/keep/enf for 12m pst "
"Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 soldier*: still need doc/enf for 12 man. pst
"Neutnet relay: [PvM] LF enfo , crat , doc and soldier's for ipande / pst [220 doctor]"
I would suggest to change all the recharges of as weapons to 1.5 secs to that no one will able to cap that as with ****ty weapons. If one wants better as then he must invest in AS skill.
I'll drop AS when my toolset allows me to kill evade profs with reasonable efficiency without it. In fact, I'd gladly drop it. I don't think you realize how much more HP and nanoskills and IP that I'd recover. The ability to use alpha symbs in eye and rwrist, a hud 3 research device like all of the non broken profs... these are things I'd love to use. I have light green MC and TS skills. I even have a QL275 conductor of corruption down. I still swap 4 items just to cast my nanos. Guess what I replace them with when I pvp? Yeah, that's right, crap that adds AS. I'm stuck using regular implants and a rollable hud device from 11.0 just to barely cap the recharge on this "OP pistol".
Waiting for a cure.
Despite your complaints, you wtfpwn 8-10 people in BS prior to being taken down.
Regardless of whatever your drawbacks are in terms of buffing, that you think you have; you're a lot more powerful than most other professions are already in terms of toolsets, defences and ability to kill: the AS pistol is icing on the cake.
Let me remind you of the success karst recently enjoyed even in the relatively challenging KEC3 RE setup: I believe he won the most recent Rimor PVP dueling challenge.
If you want AS that badly, couldn't you use that weapon instead? Probably not, because you can achieve much higher AR with pistol, have better PVM damage, get an extra special, achieve faster recharges, AND have 80% checking perks...
Sorry, were you trying to win some sympathy? I'm pretty sure your kill count is "winning" enough... no?
And, hold on a second: you just said: when I can kill with "reasonable" efficiency without it!!!!!!!!!!
HOLY CRAP! someone get this man a tissue! (In case you don't understand the concept of inferance, he can kill "WITH EFFICIENCY" with the AS pistol.)
Good luck doing that with any other prof these days save the other AS pistol toting OP'd gang.
Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Jul 6th, 2010 at 07:39:33.
I don't see where you infer that I was complaining. I wasn't. In fact, I simply stated that I would gladly give up AS in return for a toolset that actually uses the things my profession is supposed to excel in.
Your turn, dood.
Waiting for a cure.
Not to kick a dead hoss here or or anything, but I'd be rethinking my rebutal too after the "killing with efficiency" comment.
I've seen engineers do quite well with the remodulator.
Imo, if the AMEP pistol's AR was associated with AMS, it could mean that engineers could move away from the AS pistol while still retaining quite (read excellent) AR for landing perks.
I dunno though. In the last few years I've been PVPing, I see engies needing more nerf than love. :/
amep AR only translates for CONC/COLA perks. The ability to land 4 perks on a few more profs doesn't win any prizes. Pistol perks are based on pistol skill, which we don't have a great deal of. A handful of perks every minute, in exchange for a steady AS every 11 seconds. Yeah, ok. Great alternative there, dood. Ofc, if you go by this perk documentation, which probably won't even remotely resemble what we're really going to get, pistol perks will check attack rating rather than pistol skill, which will make the AMEP a better alternative for landing an additional 3 perks... but it's still a moot point since AS will be gimped to the point of near uselessness at that time and engineers are supposedly getting completely reinvented.
I also don't ask for love nor a nerf, just something different. A lot of people using the AS pistol in a lot of other profs are asking for the same thing. While being a soldier with pets allows me to rack up the kill score... I rolled an engineer. Something to think about tho... if engineers are so godly in pvp, why are there so few of us?
Last edited by Mostadio; Jul 8th, 2010 at 12:59:05.
Waiting for a cure.
Well, you probably don't need an AS every 11 seconds. I mean, really, how many times could you fire off an AS if you counted how many times it would refresh between fights? If you limit your encounters to approximately 1/minute (not ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination) you'd have the majority of your perks up to attempt a kill.
Is it unusual to have to heal up after a fight, and get ready for your next one?
If you answer yes to this question, your prof, on average is OP'd, or, youre fighting gimps.
If you have to stop, use a treatment kit, and get ready for your next fight, I'd say thats more balanced. Why can't you let your perks recharge for 30 seconds? Or is that not fast enough for you?
The problem is that people want to wtfstomp people into the ground, and move on the the next one, without even having to stop and recharge nano/heal/let perks recharge.
When I play my toons in PVP/battlestation, I don't expect to Roflwtfstompfacerollkill anyone. I feel like I should engage in combat, attempt a kill, flee if necessary, or be lucky enough to make the kill. Once the kill is made, then I think whats next? hows my health/nano/perks? Have I depleted all my defences?
The game mechanics don't allow repetitive killing. the AS pistol, and the Dshark are two weapons which have thrown the mechanics in place into a tailspin. The Dshark and the AS pistol, similarly, have created a huge divergence from the tried adn true mechanics. They unload huge damage in a short period, and refresh in a matter of seconds.
Every other major offence strike occurs on a minute scale, not seconds. SA is the next big offence, 40 Seconds is closer to a minute than mere seconds. Big perks? 2m recharge for most profs. Champion lines? over a minute.
So, the problem is that the game speed for hard hitting specials is vastly increased, but, the game mechanics themselves are moving on a time scale some 6x slower than these weapons would have you think.
IMO, increase the AS recharge rate to 40 seconds, and the AS pistol wouldn't be too bad, or, limit the damage to a 1.2k hit in PVP, and a 11s recharge is ok. But 4k or so every 11 seconds is just a game breaker.
This is where I stopped reading.
What I don't need and what is required change from fight to fight depending on who I'm in combat with. Consider fighting a low evade soldier, which I could kill petless with xp pistols, and a kiting fixer with top hots running, who I'll never hit with perks and pets will never get a chance to land a hit because the fixer is constantly out of range. The only way for me to gun him down is with regulars and AS. Bear in mind that at any point his HP should get dangerously low, all he has to do is toss an AOE snare or root my way and then wander off. Fast AS is required to kill this guy and the difference between an 11s AS and a 12s AS could decide whether I kill him or he is allowed to whittle me down until I've got nothing left.
Waiting for a cure.
Yes, or saving your AS for when the fixer does actually have low HP, then using the AS as a finisher.
Why can't you use AS as a finisher, instead of a crutch?
That would mean he could reliably hit the fixer, which he probably can't. "But his pets AR..." But his pets can instantly get rooted/snared currently by the fixer, thus rendering them useless no matter how many times he casts IPA on them because the fixer will just kite and do it again.
How can you use it as a finisher if you cant even get him to the almost finished status?
Please play some of these support profs that depend on AS against other profs that know what they are doing, then do it again without AS and tell me how big the difference is. Paper pvp is nice but its just that, not the real thing.
Also fix the tool set, you get rid of the crutch.
inb4 "they will still use AS though!!!!" Try taking a poll of the docs/engis/crats/mps/other profs that would keep AS if there toolset allowed them to effectively kill people.
Last edited by Kazeran; Jul 10th, 2010 at 05:36:47.
well thats the main reason why they are getting rid of the crutch.
fixing the toolsets will be secondary.
Losing the crutch for 90% of profs = rebreaking the bone before allowing it to heal. It's a natural part of progression.
None of this made sense to me. Could you please use another metaphor?
Waiting for a cure.
2nd.
Not really getting what your saying. However you get the crutch after u break the bone, not the other way around.
lol good point.
crutch is something you depend on.
But, for whatever reason the crutch was put in prior to the break for reasons of which I'm not sure.
But, when FC rebalances (read: breaks) the game then we will have have to rebuild (Read: heal) around the rebalance to the new optimal setups.
Break--->rebuild
The evolution is such that things spiral out of control for a while (where we are now), and then it HAS to be broken to restart progression. Which is what we're coming up to.
Yeah but when that happens none of what we're using will be relevant making this discussion moot.
Waiting for a cure.
With pet procs and the ability of those pets to hit through any amount of evades for numbers like 2.1k+ I'd say your toolset allows you to kill evade profs quite damn efficiently without AS.
But I suppose when there are evade profs like fixers and crats that can keep those pets at bay, maybe that's what you're talking abt.
Again. Pointed out in many other areas. Pets are easily disabled and if you try to tank them like a retard you're going to die. You have w, a, s, and d keys. Use them.
Waiting for a cure.
Try duels.
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