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Thread: Friday with(out) Means: July 23rd, 2010 - Insert Creative Subtitle Here

  1. #201
    I was talking about almost the same quest given out for people of level around maybe 100... and a level 100 newbie can´t go to tir or old athen (if he is omni) or omni ent if he is claner and go to a club, i never said that the daily should be altered for 210+ characters, because it´s fine for them to go in the opposites faction city, but a newbie can´t do it.

    but well send the lowlevel newbies to Tir and you will have 100 more acc cancelations because of stupid game design...

    You didn´t get the point of my suggestion at all, i was trying to say, that you could use already existing mechanics and add it or alter it for daily quests, to bring in more daily quests without having too much of work to build them.

    One of the best working examples may be the Prisoner Elite Daily, all that funcom did, is gave out another "mission" that makes you talk to a guy who was there before, who had the same mission before, but you now go there, and do stuff you could have done since the prisioners came ingame but get rewarded for it by the Agency.

    So there are Quests on Rubika already, why not try to do it with them the same way, why not, for example, send someone as daily mission to the "this means" furniture quest, the player would have a nice poece of furniture for his/her apartement (and don´t come me with no one has an apartement, most of the newbies have one, ok they won´t use it later but that´s another point), get a daily reward, and funcom get´s a "new" daily without having much work on it because it is already there.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebondevil View Post
    Sorry but the rebalancing really does need to be done before we get new people for two simple reasons:
    Firstly new players would hate learning a game to find everything change on them in a few months anyway.
    Secondly Old vets who are currently playing the game will be the best people to test it and help to insure things are balanced well before the new players arrive so they don't get stuck in the middle of the confusion trying to learn how to play an already complex game while it's changing on them.

    So the rebalancing certainly needs to be done and tested before the Graphics engine and the new players.

    ...
    Yeah, you got a good point there. The problem is that rebalancing is a huge enterprise that will take a very long time to do properly, especially, because it will need to be tested for a long time. Its not rebalancing if it only changes which professions are OP. And rebalancing will do nothing to PvM by itself. If martial artists get "decent" heals they will not replace or substitute docs. If they get "almost as good" heals they can replace docs and we will have a different profession that nobody wants in teams. What I mean is that to make all professions desirable in PvM rebalancing will either make them all equally good at everything (not gonna happen) or the best at some things will always be the most desirable. It requires the creation of specific gameplay that creates a need for all professions. 12 man is a good example. Alternatively random mobs that have immunity to or can shut down some professions. But even if it is the holly Grail and can be done in a short time and make all professions fun, it still should not be the first priority. Because fixing the starting experience can be done in small steps and reap huge benefits. Let me give a few examples:

    -In NoobIsland, making the players start near Brandon Torn instead of near the water and start dialogue immediatly will prevent the "running to the left", reintroducing the intro movie will give a better sense of imersion in the game. An implant vending machine with a surgery clinic and some talkative NPC can introduce the concept of imps and their use.

    -Leveling is faster and faster, less mobs give the same xp as before. This also means less loot and creds. This problem could be solved in many ways. Decent gear sold in shops, lower prices on imps, better drop rates of usable gear in missions, a better cash reward, quests for profession specific stuff, etc, etc.

    There are many more small changes that could be done to make the leveling experience enjoyable for new players. But that is not what we get, none of the issues that affect new players and take the fun out of the game for them are adressed. We get new ways of leveling fast, we get new endgame content for bored veterans. And its not even done or fixed properly afterwards. I see no intention, on the part of the developers, to attract new players into the game. Only half-assed attempts at keeping the existing players interested. I really, really which they prove me wrong soon...
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    wall of text.
    I'm agreeing with Masta, the end is close
    i R not spik engrish

  4. #204
    Me too. He is just forgeting one tiny little detail. We are not in the glorious past anymore. PvP might have been fun when twinking wasnt so extreme. Now a PvP twink has so much advantages that it takes the fun out of PvP for everybody else.
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusos101 View Post
    Me too. He is just forgeting one tiny little detail. We are not in the glorious past anymore. PvP might have been fun when twinking wasnt so extreme. Now a PvP twink has so much advantages that it takes the fun out of PvP for everybody else.
    But all have the same advantages (except free and pay accounts)... why does it lower the fun in pvp? Everyone can twink. Or is it more fun for you when everyone has exactly the same equip?

    That does not make any sense to me.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusos101 View Post
    Me too. He is just forgeting one tiny little detail. We are not in the glorious past anymore. PvP might have been fun when twinking wasnt so extreme. Now a PvP twink has so much advantages that it takes the fun out of PvP for everybody else.
    I agree. The game has become too unbalanced because the base mechanics, like weapon recharge, and similar, were not made with the extreme levels of skill we're now capable of achieving. I know this is part of what's being worked on as well, and while some are calling it gamebreaking for some professions, I figure that in the end everyone will be toned down enough that a different recharge system wouldn't ruin anything for anyone. But having to change playstyle isn't something people in general like. They're set in their ways, so having to swallow a pill that says nerf on it isn't easy.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  7. #207
    Who's brilliant idea was the Unicorn? Was quite a surprise. I bet it was Kintaii's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brucelee2003 View Post
    If someone thinks he can win by dirty tricks - he totally wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Damn nazis
    Edit: No Annarina we're not talking about you this time...

  8. #208

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Neccoz View Post
    Who's brilliant idea was the Unicorn? Was quite a surprise. I bet it was Kintaii's.
    I cannot take credit for that one. The Unique Horn is a joint Genele/MstrBstrd production.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  9. #209
    Me too. He is just forgeting one tiny little detail. We are not in the glorious past anymore. PvP might have been fun when twinking wasnt so extreme. Now a PvP twink has so much advantages that it takes the fun out of PvP for everybody else.

    Quote Originally Posted by DookieRK3 View Post
    But all have the same advantages (except free and pay accounts)... why does it lower the fun in pvp? Everyone can twink. Or is it more fun for you when everyone has exactly the same equip?

    That does not make any sense to me.
    I think the point was that not everyone can twink. At a guess a good TL5 twink can cost 1billion plus to make. Someone starting today who wants to PvP wont be able to come even close to that sort of financing so yes they will feel there is no fun just being beat upon and go find another game where PvP is more open to new players and vets alike where skill makes the difference not how much wealth you have accumulated and can spend twinking.
    And before anyone adds that everyone can accumulate wealth, yes they can, but not with a TL5 or lower untwinked toon and not inside 6 months of grinding pvm.

    Just my opinion.

  10. #210
    Removed.
    Last edited by Means; Jul 30th, 2010 at 16:33:03. Reason: Not the right place for this.
    * Cryborg Nano-Technician - Have a shoulder to cry on!
    Aramlash Fixer - Can't catch me!
    Aramsunat Engineer - 4 Blockers of the Apocalypse


    Devil Inside

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Skelin View Post
    I think the point was that not everyone can twink. At a guess a good TL5 twink can cost 1billion plus to make. Someone starting today who wants to PvP wont be able to come even close to that sort of financing so yes they will feel there is no fun just being beat upon and go find another game where PvP is more open to new players and vets alike where skill makes the difference not how much wealth you have accumulated and can spend twinking.
    And before anyone adds that everyone can accumulate wealth, yes they can, but not with a TL5 or lower untwinked toon and not inside 6 months of grinding pvm.

    Just my opinion.
    ok i see what you mean, but on the other hand it is one of the differences that make ao interesting... no one wants ao to be a game where you have the ubar-pvp-roxxor char after 3 months of playing.

    for me it is the big advantage of veterans and not only getting veteran points

  12. #212
    forums.anarchy-online.com > Community Corner *F5* "aww"

    Settings > About phone > System software updates > Check now "aww"

    Are we there yet? x2
    Troxxor - Atrox Enforcer - My Ganker [Target]
    Slights - Solitus Enforcer - My Tanker [Target]

    Loyal General of Ascension
    www.clan-ascension.org
    Rimor | Clan
    Significant Alts: SlightChange | Bokken | Takken

  13. #213
    I was talking about the diference between developing a toon for PvP or PvM. But he is right too. Twinking is ofc one of AOs strenghts as a game. But too much of a good thing can be bad. PvP in AO is so specialized that it isnt viable in a global setting. Thats why PvP zones and BS are bad for the game. All those who can not/dont want to make PvP twinks are only cannonfoodder. If PvP in AO remains the same as it is now, it will kill the game and/or die out. To change it and make it accessible to all will require changes that will screw a few existing twinks and make some veterans go very, very emo.
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by DookieRK3 View Post
    ok i see what you mean, but on the other hand it is one of the differences that make ao interesting... no one wants ao to be a game where you have the ubar-pvp-roxxor char after 3 months of playing.

    for me it is the big advantage of veterans and not only getting veteran points
    Then, Veterans is all AO will have after a while.. oh wait.. already happened. I have never understood AO's fixation on Vets.

    $$ for $$ New Blood > Veteran for long term profit and game health. An ancient of games like AO should be looking to drop the Veterans and replace them with fresh blood. It removes the "sticks in the mud" .. "In my day we had to walk up hill both ways to inferno, in the boiling heat and freezing snow and so should you!"

    New blood with loss of vets also deflates a game economy, which is good.

    There are three players each with different value:
    Newblood: Highest Potential Value over the longest term. Their Lifespan is fresh and thus number of possible paying months (and expansion buyins) is the highest. Highest profit continuance.

    Veterans: Lowest Possible Potential Value. They are worn out, they have been there done that. Extending their grind to continue their value induces burn-out. They have already generated most of the profit they ever will. Some will morph into the final class, but that is only a small fraction.

    Fanatic: Lifers, they will be here till the turn off the lights. Though usually some of the most vocal and vitriolic, not all are. Fanatics gave their life to the game and refuse to give it up. Like some freak keeping their dead mother in an upstairs room and killing people in her name, they are clinging to something that should have been burried or passed on to be refurbished into something new. Trend towards the obssesive. But hey at least they are a near sure bet to keep paying that monthly fee and buy whatever crap addon you offer.


    The problem with Lifers is the world that caters to them is hostile to Newblood and tires Veterans out. So unless you want the smallest possible income stream, catering to Lifers is a BAD IDEA and represents the company EOLing the game because you just wont get enough Newblood to stave off the loss of Veterans and Fanatics are too small a fraction to bank on. AO has been fixated on the Veterans and Fanatics for at least the last 4 years. The result is end-game bloat while all the other levels languished without something new or interesting, Noobstick excepting and that was just another OP item that threw the lower level ballance off even worse creating a weapon that was essentially better for ANY Proff than any other option at low level.

    It just works well enough (when it was made) and thus didnt need improvement is a cop-out. If the game doesnt evolve (each part of it) then it stagnates and becomes less relevant. As the newbie area and startup experience became. What new content was added was geared towards the Fanatics and the Veterans Alts. The assumptiuon was that new players would be guided by the old. Which in SOME cases is still true, but reliance on players to do the job the company should be.. is bad buisness.

    If it was me I would revamp the leveling experience completly, really dig into the games item DB, clean it up. REmove irrelevancy, irrelevant stuff confuses players and shows the pattern this game has taken and shows players the lunacy. You should try to hide the idoctic changes to the game till they are hooked! Piss off your fanatics. You should want them gone, they don't really by and large help the game or the community exist in a healthy way. Give your vets a break, they are usually the more helpful of the community members to newbloods, so let them rest and work on stuff they are less concerned about, because hey... that new lowbie PF or leveling experience might tempt them to roll a new toon just to check it out.. and that means vets and newbloods mixing. Thats a very healthy thing.

    At this point in the game, you should have done AO2 and not this silly revamp. Once you are done, you are still working in a clapped out ghetto ride car of a game structure, it will just have a fancy paintjob. All the stuff that haunts the game now, will probably still haunt it after you are done. Your game tools will still be archaic and limited. Your DB system will still make it impossible to maintain only relevant items in the game rather than just leaving the game chock full of uselessness with 1% item relevance.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweeeeeek View Post
    and everyone knows solsdiers dont think they just cast ams then roll face in keyboard for maximum efficiency
    Quote Originally Posted by Means
    I would have loved to see 18.0 finish up faster...but some "interesting" ways of playing the game were discovered that slowed the process slightly...in the same way as the pope is slightly Catholic.



    ..

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    I cannot take credit for that one. The Unique Horn is a joint Genele/MstrBstrd production.
    Well, they made me and my GF laugh!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brucelee2003 View Post
    If someone thinks he can win by dirty tricks - he totally wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Damn nazis
    Edit: No Annarina we're not talking about you this time...

  16. #216
    I ask for credits!

    * Genele looks at a pink document with more white text than black...
    [NoGoal] does it have an unicorn?
    [Genele] sadly... no...
    [MstrBstrd] i could make one for you
    [Genele] lul
    [MstrBstrd] http://xxx/unicornforGenele.jpg <- there you go
    [NoGoal] it's not pink!
    [MstrBstrd] but it has a horn
    [Genele] its in the keeper nano program document now... :P
    [NoGoal] :P
    [Anarrina] MstrBstrd, that's the third most absurd thing I've seen today. but the funniest.
    [NoGoal] that's the future horse for keepers?
    [MstrBstrd] haha
    [Genele] yup its a mount
    blah

  17. #217
    Not Found.... NoGoal your link doesn´t work, it produces the beloved 404 error

  18. #218
    Ofc, I edited it to hide the host :P It's exactly the same as the one in the doc anyway.
    blah

  19. #219
    ok so this wasn´t an accident.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    Ofc, I edited it to hide the host :P It's exactly the same as the one in the doc anyway.
    Heh, your link autocorrects to xxx.com for me. Pr0n site yummmy!

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