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Thread: Friday with(out) Means: July 23rd, 2010 - Insert Creative Subtitle Here

  1. #141
    Every time I white knight for FC my nano delta increases.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by tazalanche View Post
    My comments about that were PAST TENSE... hence the "WOULD have taken:, "WERE familiar with anything involving the Dreamworld engine", "we WOULD HAVE HAD the engine upgrade about TWO YEARS AGO". "Back then" there WERE over 100 people on the AoC team.

    Throwing a bunch of technical words into a sentence does not make you an expert any more than playing a game as an nano technician makes you a magician. You have no idea on my level of knowledge or expertise in any field because I never claimed any level of information, knowledge or understanding of software development & did not state anything that would allude to an expertise in said technologies. When you are quoting misinformation as fact to validate your point, it has the opposite effect.

    TL;DR:
    As has been stated by others in this thread, you misread things regularly & take the information out of context. People in glass houses should not throw stones. Have a nice day.
    Back then there still weren't 100 people able to do anything. 100 people in a game team would be a handful of guys working on the engine and the rest would be game system programmers, content designers, gameplay designers, soundengineers, artists of all kinds, writers, and testers. Not engine coders. Far as I know I didn't use any technical terms that you didn't; that I know that a "game engine" consists of multiple pieces of technology, "engines", and refer to them as such is nothing to do with being an "expert" on it, nor did I say anything that could be interpreted as playing an expert on the subject of game technology. You need to practise your trolling more.

    If you have knowledge of software development, of this type, then you would know that there's not a huge group of people working on making the rendering engine, but a small team. There's a saying "too many cooks spoil the food", and that's true in software development as well.

    What you obviously wanted to do was discuss the internal workings of a company with several hundred employees and multiple running projects, not technical stuff, and I didn't touch any technical stuff because that doesn't relate to that at all. Let's look at the situation: Funcom needs to make a profit to keep shareholders and investors happy, as well as draw in more investors. How's that achieved? Through the creation of more projects. Existing profitable ventures, such as AO and AoC, are put on the backburner in the devebecause they're already through the development and investment phase and are now supposed to sit in a cashcow position. In the case of AO, that's where it is. It is a game that is very old, has declining profits, and has long since earned itself in and generated a profit. As such, spending more money on this archaic thing is not something investors or shareholders are very interested in spending money on. They want things like TSW and other large, new productions that can generate huge profits. So, do you redelegate your very valuable workforce, that would likely make AO go negative, to this old thing, where the risk is very high and the possible profit is very low? No, you don't. You send them to work on TSW and whatever is coming after that, because that's where the big money are and a few hundred dissatisfied people on a forum be damned in the face of a milllion plus preorders.

    That has nothing to do with me reading stuff out of context or whatever else you'd like to call it. I'm perfectly able to understand what you and the others are going on about, but I say your viewpoint is wrong, because you don't take into consideration anything but your own bellybutton.
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Jul 26th, 2010 at 19:43:26.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  3. #143
    Players of any mmo are also investors. in this case, many investors are expressing their discontent because the return on their investment didn't pan out. i.e. - the return on the investment = game engine release, rebalancing finished, newbie isle revamped etc...etc... the list goes on of things that kept some people playing beyond the point where they might've stopped playing.

    people being upset that they continued to play and invest money on this hype and it didn't happen/hasn't happened is perfectly legit. trying to argue with logic (the whys & hows) against something that is emotional (upset investors) is in itself illogical, so stop trying.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  4. #144
    It doesn't matter anyways.

    Everyone, including the FC staff, will be busy playing Starcraft 2, beginning tonight

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by crude4gone View Post
    It doesn't matter anyways.

    Everyone, including the FC staff, will be busy playing Starcraft 2, beginning tonight
    rofl, so true, and so sad.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Soultraider View Post
    Players of any mmo are also investors. in this case, many investors are expressing their discontent because the return on their investment didn't pan out. i.e. - the return on the investment = game engine release, rebalancing finished, newbie isle revamped etc...etc... the list goes on of things that kept some people playing beyond the point where they might've stopped playing.

    people being upset that they continued to play and invest money on this hype and it didn't happen/hasn't happened is perfectly legit. trying to argue with logic (the whys & hows) against something that is emotional (upset investors) is in itself illogical, so stop trying.
    No, you're not an investor, you're a customer. There's a vast difference.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    No, you're not an investor, you're a customer. There's a vast difference.
    I wouldn't say there's a VAST difference. Both investors and customers give their money to a company and expect something in return (other than empty promises).
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
    Sunza 207/21 Martial Artist ::: Voss 182/15 Engineer ::: Shadowhead 150/16 Agent

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Autohead View Post
    I wouldn't say there's a VAST difference. Both investors and customers give their money to a company and expect something in return (other than empty promises).
    There is a vast difference. One, the customer, is buying a service and getting exactly what they paid for; the service Anarchy Online. It is supplied as advertised, with good uptime and regular updates. What these updates contain or when they're applied you have no say in. You can only hope that your voice is heard if there's anything you want to say.
    If you feel you're being treated horrendously by Funcom you can probably direct a complaint to the consumer protection agency of whatever country that this service is run in.

    Investors are generally companies and not consumers, they're generally not involved with the service or product in any way other than being shown demonstrations and reports on how progress is fairing. Shareholders can be people, and often with smaller companies like Funcom the majority share sits with the founders. Companies often hold a large amounts of shares in eachother as well. There's a general assembly once a year where shareholders meet and discuss the performance of the company. They do not have any influence over whether or not keepers are nerfed or buffed, and if the general assembly finds it necessary they can address concerns to the board of directors where something like "this communication you're doing with Anarchy Online is bad because <reason>", if it's a real concern, as in a noticable dropoff in subscribers or subscriber satisfaction in satisfaction polls shows a drop after the issue began.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  9. #149
    I think the bottom line is, FC needs to stop creating new projects while they still have so many theyre working on.

    With a team as small as they have, and they keep saying "were gonna add this! and then this! and this too! oh dont forget about this!" it wouldnt surprise me if after a few months they thought to themselves "oh ****...".

    Stop creating new projects, finish the ones you have currently so that they're on point.
    Atlantean
    ------------------
    Postmuerta - 210/10 Solitus Soldier

    Kamaytayan - 220/17 Solitus Fixer

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamathefixer View Post
    I think the bottom line is, FC needs to stop creating new projects while they still have so many theyre working on.

    With a team as small as they have, and they keep saying "were gonna add this! and then this! and this too! oh dont forget about this!" it wouldnt surprise me if after a few months they thought to themselves "oh ****...".

    Stop creating new projects, finish the ones you have currently so that they're on point.
    AO and AoC _are_ finished projects. They're in the maintenance phase, not the development phase.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    AO and AoC _are_ finished projects. They're in the maintenance phase, not the development phase.
    Oh come now, you know what he means
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    Oh come now, you know what he means
    Yes, he means that FC shouldn't start up stuff like TSW or PVM or whatever else they're working on currently untill they're "done" with AO. What this mystical word means, noone really knows, because MMOs by their definition are never "done".
    I of course disagree with this viewpoint because it's silly in the extreme, and not because I'm some kind of "FC fanboy" or whatever else it's popular to call people who know what's good business. The real fanboys are the ones who cry and bitch about this stuff here, not me. I'm just stating why things are the way they are. If stating fact makes you a fanboy, then I don't really get the fanboy word, because my understanding was it refers to someone who mindlessly defends something, no matter how illogical or silly the arguments against it are. And since I'm the voice of reason in this case, I figure the rest of you are the "raving fanboys"... and thus according to troll logic I'm allowed to condescend and look down on you. Just ask Klod, Chrys, SSK, and so on.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Yes, he means that FC shouldn't start up stuff like TSW or PVM or whatever else they're working on currently untill they're "done" with AO.
    See, when I read his statement, I thought he meant projects like re-balancing, graphics update, etc. etc. Quite sure he didn't mean other games .

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehoo725 View Post
    See, when I read his statement, I thought he meant projects like re-balancing, graphics update, etc. etc. Quite sure he didn't mean other games .
    Yes, I think any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion.. unless they were looking for something to argue about.

    lol @ Mastablasta's whole rant about everyone else being a fanboy
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jul 27th, 2010 at 14:14:22.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Yes, he means that FC shouldn't start up stuff like TSW or PVM or whatever else they're working on currently untill they're "done" with AO. What this mystical word means, noone really knows, because MMOs by their definition are never "done".
    I of course disagree with this viewpoint because it's silly in the extreme, and not because I'm some kind of "FC fanboy" or whatever else it's popular to call people who know what's good business. The real fanboys are the ones who cry and bitch about this stuff here, not me. I'm just stating why things are the way they are. If stating fact makes you a fanboy, then I don't really get the fanboy word, because my understanding was it refers to someone who mindlessly defends something, no matter how illogical or silly the arguments against it are. And since I'm the voice of reason in this case, I figure the rest of you are the "raving fanboys"... and thus according to troll logic I'm allowed to condescend and look down on you. Just ask Klod, Chrys, SSK, and so on.
    That whole post was ironic and pretty much what I have come to expect from you at times, since that's not what he was talking about. You do write a lot of great posts from time to time and so I never dismiss anything you have to say but you often seem to miss the mark a bit as well.

    I think we can all agree that FC aren't "the devil" in any way and that they deserve a lot of praise for the hard work they do with the resources they have to work with. It should still be possible to point out the mistakes that we personally think they make, in the hopes that they will take it to heart and act on it if they see fit to do so. I'm not saying you are preventing anyone in doing so. As you yourself said, you are just trying to point out why things are the way they are, which is good. That's what we are trying to do as well.

    The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else here (me included of course) try to spend a bit more time understanding what people are trying to say rather than assuming something right off the bat and then attacking that statement.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else here (me included of course) try to spend a bit more time understanding what people are trying to say rather than assuming something right off the bat and then attacking that statement.
    Yes please.

    In my original post, which started this string of discussion, I specifically stated:

    - That the majority of the time, the timelines Funcom provides are spot on.
    - That I am very appreciative of the weekly updates aka Friday with Means provided

    But people CHOSE to disregard the fact that my post stated those 2 items VERY CLEARLY to attack the fact that I was letting Funcom know that I don't care for them communicating false expectations (intentional or otherwise). And to top it off, in some cases stated that I was unappreciative of their efforts despite the fact that I clearly (in that post and many others) stated otherwise.

    I don't get the point of customers attacking other customers for sharing their viewpoints on the service they receive or for asking for a higher level of customer service. At worst, the request goes ignored, at best it results in a higher end-result for everyone involved.

    I can't imagine that Means or Kintaii (or any Funcom employee) could read my posts and go "OMG she is just trying to be destructive or troll". Honestly, money talks so I could just cancel my accounts and be done with it. Only someone that cares about this product would bother to communicate concerns. I didn't start AO last month or even last year.. it was sometime early in 2004. I've played all types of games in the interim and always arrived right back here with AO being my primary MMO (or primary game period) because I actually like the game. That is the assumption that people need to/should start with and if they do, their response, if any, wouldn't be as biting or simply erroneous.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jul 27th, 2010 at 14:39:31.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    No, you're not an investor, you're a customer. There's a vast difference.
    A customer is purchasing something in the here and now. An investor invests in a future interest. if someone pays for ao, even though its mainly because they are waiting for future developments to pan out, then they are making an investment in ao. the fact that I had to explain the difference, and did it in a few simple sentences, even though everyone else reading the thread already knew the difference.... means you clearly didn't know the difference.
    Last edited by Soultraider; Jul 27th, 2010 at 17:18:58.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Soultraider View Post
    A customer is purchasing something in the here and now. An investor invests in a future interest.
    true ; most of us are passionnate players and we know the money we put nowadays is going to be used for a new engine awaited for a VERY long time. we also know our money has been of a relative use to the release of AoC, so in a way it's totally legitimate AO ends up benefiting of a comparable engine, and the 10 years lifting necessary to survive.

    but the real feature is that an investor cares less of the result than money incomes ; oppositely we are investors expecting nothing else than a game improvement and a longer life to our favorite game. i hope people @ FC realize that, because that's the root of a certain amount of disappointed customers & its expression -ofc including useless QQing.

    So we really need some new solid viddy to prepare the launch of new engine beta. i'd be glad to stand in the ranks of those providing test time (btw, bugsy website seems down, plz care !).
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Soultraider View Post
    A customer is purchasing something in the here and now. An investor invests in a future interest. if someone pays for ao, even though its mainly because they are waiting for future developments to pan out, then they are making an investment in ao. the fact that I had to explain the difference, and did it in a few simple sentences, even though everyone else reading the thread already knew the difference.... means you clearly didn't know the difference.
    The difference is you're investing time, not money. You're not expecting monetary gain from AO; thus you're not an investor in the sense of the word that we all know was used here. That you needed to spend time trying to make this connection between two things that are clearly not the same, means you clearly don't know the difference.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    That whole post was ironic and pretty much what I have come to expect from you at times, since that's not what he was talking about. You do write a lot of great posts from time to time and so I never dismiss anything you have to say but you often seem to miss the mark a bit as well.

    I think we can all agree that FC aren't "the devil" in any way and that they deserve a lot of praise for the hard work they do with the resources they have to work with. It should still be possible to point out the mistakes that we personally think they make, in the hopes that they will take it to heart and act on it if they see fit to do so. I'm not saying you are preventing anyone in doing so. As you yourself said, you are just trying to point out why things are the way they are, which is good. That's what we are trying to do as well.

    The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else here (me included of course) try to spend a bit more time understanding what people are trying to say rather than assuming something right off the bat and then attacking that statement.
    But I understand perfectly what people want to say. My point is, as I already stated: Their viewpoint and arguments are wrong, because they're not seated in reality, but in egotistical wishes. Sure, there's some things like Means saying he hopes to have a video up in 3 weeks time, and then replies 8 weeks later that there's no videomaker in the office and that one will be made when it's possible. Something I figure people just choose to ignore when they say nothing was mentioned of it ever again.
    It's like that with a lot of these things that people are complaining about right now.

    But hey, you're free not to listen to me. You're free to wish AO communication was treated like it used to be. But if you disregard what I say, then you're also disregarding almost 9 years of memories of how the communication from the AO team took place.
    Yes, while having a single update every 3-4 months with what was going on was a great lot of info at a time, or maybe nothing at all as it was sometimes, then I much prefer the open and enthusiastic communication taking place now. A video not released when it was hoped? Who really cares? You people obviously don't really care that much since you're still here with your paid accounts crying about how you're paying such huge sums to keep AO running that you deserve better.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

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