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Thread: Friday with Means - July 30th, 2010 - Go Go Community!

  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by reids View Post
    Now 23 weeks ago since Means promised us a video of the new engine "In 3 weeks"

    "really hoping" != "I promise"
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

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    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  2. #142
    Don't say things you can't live up to IMO. I'm sure he was well aware when he said it that they had no one capable of producing videos on staff (like he said a few weeks later) and that this task would fall on himself.

    They need to just stop spewing out timeframes, they never live up to them...just like the "later this year" every single year for the last 3 years in regard to the engine.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
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  3. #143
    Not saying it's not late or he shouldn't produce it. Just saying that he never promised it. Promising things tends to have a more concrete "You must do this" type of connotation to them that just isn't there in something like "I hope I can".
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

    Hunt, and be hunted: The Hunting Grounds | Alien Tower Field :Aliens, that really invade!
    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  4. #144

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Autohead View Post
    Don't say things you can't live up to IMO. I'm sure he was well aware when he said it that they had no one capable of producing videos on staff (like he said a few weeks later) and that this task would fall on himself.

    They need to just stop spewing out timeframes, they never live up to them...just like the "later this year" every single year for the last 3 years in regard to the engine.
    I didn't know that we wouldn't have resource in house to produce this. Been rather busy since...sorry about that. I'll try not to get personal in this response as it won't be productive.

    Is the engine late? Absolutely. Are we still working on it? Yes. Has the scope and destination changed many times during the journey? Again...Yes. We continue on despite the MANY setbacks we have encountered as we feel that it is worth it. We understand you want it now...so do we.
    Colin Cragg
    This "Means" Cake
    Past Game Director (2008-2011)

  5. #145
    Honestly, I'm more anxious for breed change & rebalance than I am for the engine.

    As far as things we've been told that haven't come true, I think the majority of my disdain for this comes from my line of work. I am legally bound by everything I say to our customers, if even the smallest inkling of it is untrue I am opening myself up for a lawsuit, losing my license, and even going to jail. So, when I see people with free reign to say pretty much anything they want and get away with it, it irritates me.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    I didn't know that we wouldn't have resource in house to produce this. Been rather busy since...sorry about that.

    This is new video of engine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hWZ40120BQ

    You dont need to thank me Means.
    SOON™coming back...
    Neosh 220/20 Shade | Neokirurg 220/21 Doc crit setup | Neoc 216/18 Crat
    Shades are really invisible (from FC point of view)
    Patterns/symbs SALE ----- Refined imps SALE

  7. #147
    At this point some quick FRAPSing in the spirit of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2WQB74W6_4 would be enough . . .

    If you really want a "produced" video upload some FRAPSed HD rush on a public server and let us edit it ! I m up for a music/sound design on it.

    (some work i did that ended on youtube here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppnPhafRtd0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCZluElJmI)

  8. #148
    Bump for Djantro , getting the community involved in something like this could be only positive if you can't produce a high quality video yourself inhouse.

    Nice stuff Djantro!
    -Equilibrium-
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    Blackhawks00 -57/6 MP
    Blackhawkd - 29/3 Tard

  9. #149
    Yes, just show us some nice fraps... les us participate in the progress you make. We cannot see inside changes on code like performance boosts etc, but well, just involve us more.
    Personally, I would already ask you to push what you got to testlive.
    Release early, release often - Open Source Philosophy.
    regards
    Happy employee of the Omni Tek corporation.
    I am destruction. I am creation. I am Engineer.
    Free Tradeskill Services on RK1. Includes AI Armor.

    AOMover | AwesOme Script
    Open Source Licenses, enjoy your freedom

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerusha View Post
    Release early, release often - Open Source Philosophy.
    They tried this. People always whined about stuff being released before it's ready.
    ::: My Tools & Stuff :::
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  11. #151
    yea, dammed if u do dammed if you dont
    Proud Advisor of Spartans

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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    They tried this. People always whined about stuff being released before it's ready.
    Releasing to live is something you cannot do if it is not polished. But testlive is for testing - so let us test the stuff and give feedback.
    regards
    Happy employee of the Omni Tek corporation.
    I am destruction. I am creation. I am Engineer.
    Free Tradeskill Services on RK1. Includes AI Armor.

    AOMover | AwesOme Script
    Open Source Licenses, enjoy your freedom

  13. #153
    I can almost guarantee you that people will complain "as the (insert_item_here) is now, it's a huge disapointment. I quit." if they put an alpha product onto testlive. And that's what I was commenting about.

    That being said, I do believe Means said something about running an extended test period on the new engine *when it is ready* for this. (Or I may have dreamt he did.. I am pretty sure he said it, though).

    PS: I'm not saying people shouldn't complain. I'm just saying that we should understand that FC can't please everyone. Someone will always be unhappy, no matter what you do. It's all about finding that delicate balance where you upset the less amount of people - and doing what you feel is right at the same time. Kudos to the devteam for being as communicative as they are, even though their expected launch dates overshoot horribly from time to time. It happens.
    Last edited by Demoder; Aug 3rd, 2010 at 18:30:32.
    ::: My Tools & Stuff :::
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    ::: AOItems :: Blog :: CIDB :: HelpBot :: ItemsBot :: PlanetMap Viewer :: Tower Wars :: Twitter :::

  14. #154
    im just really happy this game is still around .
    my life would be different without it .
    With all my power I give courage to me and my family

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Is the engine late? Absolutely. Are we still working on it? Yes. Has the scope and destination changed many times during the journey? Again...Yes. We continue on despite the MANY setbacks we have encountered as we feel that it is worth it. We understand you want it now...so do we.

    I've foresworn leeting myself or ninjaleeting anyone else (since about the start of June) until the engine is in place. Smokers trying to quit their habit have things easier, so lets get this thing done.


    Hopefully, little or none of the delays is a matter of pulling resources off for other projects. I can imagine where AO got allotted 2 months in the Bejing office for heads and, having overshot that w/o finishing, they reallocated 8 of 10 artists back to TSW stuff; leaving 2 artists to soldier on with the headwork at a slower pace.
    .
    Dagget
    President,
    Venice Academy

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Is the engine late? Absolutely. Are we still working on it? Yes. Has the scope and destination changed many times during the journey? Again...Yes. We continue on despite the MANY setbacks we have encountered as we feel that it is worth it. We understand you want it now...so do we.
    And by the time it's finally done, we will survive on a few short clips of "work in progress", thank you very much.

    Nobody really wants it "now", what we really want (for now) is just a sample.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  17. #157
    And now ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Conway Twitty

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQsiLDAxud0




    *edit* or if thats too much for you, try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoMt7...eature=related
    Last edited by Soultraider; Aug 4th, 2010 at 00:33:20.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerusha View Post
    Personally, I would already ask you to push what you got to testlive.
    Release early, release often - Open Source Philosophy.
    regards
    This approach to software engineering is not without flaws and is hardly suitable for any or even most situations. There's also a reason why FOSS, Free / Open Source Software is commonly referred to as "F***ing Open Source Software".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  19. #159
    from what i gather, and maybe I'm wrong, almost all (except very simple web browser based) mmo's have continually updated content added, improvements made and bugs fixed over time. In very few occasions (using AO as an example) is something released completely finished and working at 100%.

    in my line of work, we go with the 90:10 rule. it's quite simple. the amount of effort it takes to get something running at 90% efficiency, is about half the effort it takes to get something running from 90% to 100% efficiency. although this may not always be the case, it usually is. that extra 10% is the nitty gritty details, and fine tuning, that usually cannot be corrected until a project is released and in full use. i imagine the release of the new ao engine will follow that same pattern. if not, and the devs are trying to reach 100% before release, we are in for a very long wait, imho
    Have a listen to my latest musical abomination.

    Fixers run while engi's Build
    Soldiers gun near crats coffee, spilled

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    This approach to software engineering is not without flaws and is hardly suitable for any or even most situations. There's also a reason why FOSS, Free / Open Source Software is commonly referred to as "F***ing Open Source Software".
    It's working for me though.

    For Vha.Chat I've began using a build server to push out nightly versions to users pretty much all the time.
    With many people helping me to test those builds, the final release was much more stable than I could have accomplished alone.
    Not to mention, when I did fix something I could get instant feedback whether the reporter of the bug also deems it fixed in the new nightly version.

    I'm not saying it's perfect, but on my project it certainly contributed to a more stable and better result.

    And remember, some of the fancy 3rd party tools you're enjoying in AO are open source

    But I'll agree on earlier statements that it's not exactly a suitable model for AO.
    Formerly Vhab.
    Once upon a time ruled a server. And then sold out. Sorry.

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