I callem "Uns"

[Notcrattey]

Not saying advys don't need toned down btw, but the epic drama queen whining is through the roof.

No it's quite called for.

3.) As far as AR shades being able to perk advys, this is true to an extent. If they are NR 8 then yes, MR shades with ar setup will be able to perk them. If not perked NR 8, even if they are perked by a shade, most advys can live through enough of a shades alpha to kill the shade first. If you're AR setup, you lose roughly 500 evades as a shade with no means of healing to live through your initial alpha.

Depending on what breed, the AR can be easily attained through swaps. Of course in any mass pvp setting with OSBs, you won't be perking an adv even through limber. If they're end game that is.

[Bombaaaa]

advs are easy...at least for my doc it is. They also die with my crat, enf, shade and even fixer. They aint what you call so OP, just learn to play your prof.

[heartless888]

advs are easy...at least for my doc it is. They also die with my crat, enf, shade and even fixer. They aint what you call so OP, just learn to play your prof.

yes in a 1v1 situation like that so to speak those can bring advies down, i only disagree with crats, a ranged advy will tear apart any crats of equal skill

the thing is, unlke those profs you mentioned, apart from maybe enf, the advy can get caught by 6 people, survive 20+ seconds, bail, and end up getting away safetly

a doc being attacked by 6 people wont

a shade being attacked by 6 people wont, either, etc

what makes the advy OP is at ANY given time, if they choose to, they can withdraw from ANY fights/zerg/debuffs/CC and get away

your doc can own advies, yes, docs just eat advies alive, esp ranged ones with no stun, slow perks and low hp, BUT, the fact remains, if an advy chooses to, he will NEVER, EVER die to a doc

and because of how many def tools adevies got, they can withdraw, clear some debuffs and jump right back in the fight where they are still next to unkillable, whereas if an enf barely escapes a 6v1, he has to wait on coon cause thats all they got for situations like this, they have to sit to heal a bit, in some cases even have to take care of nano

same goes for NTs, they are broken i know but if they escape a 6v1 somehow, they have to sit and wait 5 min to refill the nano, or simply /terminate cause its faster

same for shades and crats, but the advy sits down, uses two VS and hes good to go almost as if it was the start of the BS and can start mauling down 2-3 soldiers at once.

[Frubaliscious]

advs are easy...at least for my doc it is. They also die with my crat, enf, shade and even fixer. They aint what you call so OP, just learn to play your prof.

finally someone gets it. but seriously, this ONLY applies to melee adv's.

[Lime]

advs are easy...at least for my doc it is. They also die with my crat, enf, shade and even fixer. They aint what you call so OP, just learn to play your prof.

Well, this is true. However the Adventurer toolset is *very* forgiving for bad players; a bad adventurer is going to still going to be extremely hard to kill for an average one. Especially since this has such black and white mechanics (ie: perkable, or not. No middle ground), even a baddie with money can be a nightmare for most people. On that note, while a well-played adventurer is terrifiying, but I still don't think they're as bad as some make it out to be. Their killpower isn't *that* amazing, that's not to say I don't think that the AS pistol should be rethought.

[Frubaliscious]

Well, this is true. However the Adventurer toolset is *very* forgiving for bad players; a bad adventurer is going to still going to be extremely hard to kill for an average one. Especially since this has such black and white mechanics (ie: perkable, or not. No middle ground), even a baddie with money can be a nightmare for most people. On that note, while a well-played adventurer is terrifiying, but I still don't think they're as bad as some make it out to be. Their killpower isn't *that* amazing, that's not to say I don't think that the AS pistol should be rethought.

I disagree, a bad adv only takes different tactics to kill. let them use up cocoon, bior, then they usually panic. a bad adv will fail at cycling evades, leaving openings for an alpha, a bad adv will use the same tactics for fighting everything. I can't see how anyone would have problems killing this "bad adv". and if all i said sin't true, then you're not dealing with a bad adv, you're dealing with a bad player attacking the adv.

[Lime]

Ah, you missed my point. I wasn't referring to bad adventurers throwing up everything and being non-stop death machines, I just meant that the short-term escability/survivability of bad adventurers is much, much, much higher than any other class. If a mediocre adventurer is able to survive my alpha (which, let's face it: with RRFE/non-capped SA it's pretty common), and hit a def perk, I can't do anything against them. No amount of skill will allow me to circumvent their oncoming attacks unless I run, abuse LoS, or something along those lines.

Regardless of whether or not they faceroll their defense bar, or hit Acro/Bio at different times; chances are that an Adventurer is going to be able to escape via a BY, BS warp, or anything else like that, unless there's a ridiculous zerg attempting to stop that from happening.

[Frubaliscious]

I do understand what you're saying, but, if a mediocre adv is smokin your alpha, then your timing is off. and what's wrong with running and using los to kill it? that IS a legit tactic. people /care way too much, it's about winning, you do what whatever you can to gain an advantage. and your argument applies to many other professions as well, it's not exclusive to adventurers.

[Lime]

Nah, my time's pretty spot on. All of my perks go off while their stunned.. I simply don't do enough damage to kill some. I blame the low min damage on Shade perks, but well.. that's for a different topic. Here's a damage log taken ~5 minutes ago in the new zone, from an extremely well-geared adventurer.. who I could perk (drained a MP pet) but I know from experience that they don't cycle acro, for some reason.

You hit Arcticangel for 2381 points of Sneak Atck damage.
You hit Arcticangel with nanobots for 1788 points of energy damage.
You successfully perform the Chaos Ritual.
You hit Arcticangel for 595 points of Fast Attack damage.
You hit Arcticangel with nanobots for 205 points of melee damage.
You successfully perform a Disorientate attack.
You hit Arcticangel with nanobots for 2080 points of melee damage.
You successfully perform an Impale attack.
You hit Arcticangel with nanobots for 2191 points of melee damage.
You successfully perform a Gore attack.
You hit Arcticangel with nanobots for 2228 points of melee damage.
You successfully perform a Hecatomb attack.

I cut out all of the shield spam, but they were running RRFE at that time. I'll sum up my damage for you quickly: 11528.

Nothing's wrong with LoSing, I do it all the time. But if you think I'm going to make another pass at an Adventurer, or anyone for that matter, you're mistaken. By the time their def is down, my drains are out and I can't perk them

My argument being that..? Abusing LoS is the only way to beat some classes, or what?

[Frubaliscious]

well ofc, if you start your kill alpha when they're full hp. which it looks like you did. (a capped SA would have helped) if you're complaining that you can't just run up to an adv, stun it, alpha and expect it to die, then you rly have no argument. nice dmg tho. adv's die similar to docs, you wear them down, fake alpha with fast recharge perks, scare them into wasting major dfenses, then plan your kill. nobosy shoudl be able to walk right up to one and expect them to die from full hp within the period of a stun. it happens, but it's not really much of a a tactic.

and yes, USING los is the only way to effectively kill some classes, it;s not abuse, if it was there wouldn't be any walls or buildings in this game

[Jekonam]

Its funny how people actually try to make argument defending radvies. It just makes me laugh, seriously. Is there any honest advy on these forums that can accept that their defences overall are utterly superior compared to any other profession in the game.

[Insane666]

Before the AS pistol, this was about how it was. JEPP anyone?

that was still (way) more killingpower then a shield mp



PS. any1 that claims theres nothing wrong with adve's defense is either:

1) completely clueless

2) shamelessly trying to defend their unfair advantage in pvp



-the disproportion between adventurers and the rest of the professions defensive toolsets is so huge, that each dying adventurer should just delete his toon out of shame

-the disproportion in defense compared to other profs is in no way justified with a lower offensive capabilitie, since suprise suprise, adventurers are close to the top when it comes to offense




sad fact: there are proffessions with sole defense being evades ( crats ), or heals ( docs ),,,, theres is one proffesion out of 14. tho, that utilises all defensive mechanincs in our beloved game ( with the exception of only blockers ) --- the adventurer




and pls dont say this game is ballanced arround team pvp, becouse in team or even zerg pvp an adventurer is still way out off ballance

[Obtena]

advs are easy...at least for my doc it is. They also die with my crat, enf, shade and even fixer. They aint what you call so OP, just learn to play your prof.

You killed advy's so they aren't OP ... that's completely irrelevant and ridiculous on so many levels. It proves absolutely nothing.

1. On the low end of the spectrum, where you have upcoming, learning players, advy's are very much advantaged by their access to almost every play in the book.

2. On the high end of the spectrum, where you have end-game toons played by seasoned players, advy's are pushed even further up the ladder because those players don't let themselves get into situations where they are zerged or can't win anyways. I have rarely seen a situation where an advy couldn't just run away if things got too hot for them.

[bitnykk]

just learn to play your prof.

irrelevant. i know how to play my prof but i still consider advys need lotta balancing for several reasons given in this thread (but not only here).

[Frubaliscious]

if you're pointing that finger at me, Jeko, let me assure you, I am not by any means defending ranged adv's. I hate em as much as the next person. what i am defending is the shrinking, almost negligible community of melee adv's, which you guys seem to bundle in with ranged. you have 2 completely different fights here, and people don't seem to understand that.

[Obtena]

I don't think melee advy's have much to complain about either. Just because it's not the preferred advy setup doesn't mean that it's still not near the top of the ladder for PVP. Melee advys have to think a bit more about how to get and stay in range where ranged don't. Not a hard task when you are unrootable and have good runspeed.

[alderwaran]

you have 2 completely different fights here, and people don't seem to understand that.

also when demanding changes most pvp'ers accept without hesitation the nerf of the non-pvp community which, by the amount of whines about the dying bs if vp is given to pvm'ers without forcing them to go to the bs, should be the vast mayority.

[Frubaliscious]

I don't think melee advy's have much to complain about either. Just because it's not the preferred advy setup doesn't mean that it's still not near the top of the ladder for PVP. Melee advys have to think a bit more about how to get and stay in range where ranged don't. Not a hard task when you are unrootable and have good runspeed.

I'm not complaining in fact I think melee adv is just fine. and enough with this unrootable stuff, lol..just like any other class with access to SD, few perk it past 2 or 4 for 9% at 4 with 1 snare removal, 1 root removal. most only perk SD 2, if at all. Freedom of the Wanderer gives 20%, and Boon gives 13%, (inate 4%? cant remember) for a grand total of 46% with SD 4 perked. and as far as run speed, have you chased an adv lately? it's not what it used to be. you can run away from us just as easily as we can run from you in most cases.

[Weltall]

I'm not complaining in fact I think melee adv is just fine. and enough with this unrootable stuff, lol..just like any other class with access to SD, few perk it past 2 or 4 for 9% at 4 with 1 snare removal, 1 root removal. most only perk SD 2, if at all. Freedom of the Wanderer gives 20%, and Boon gives 13%, (inate 4%? cant remember) for a grand total of 46% with SD 4 perked. and as far as run speed, have you chased an adv lately? it's not what it used to be. you can run away from us just as easily as we can run from you in most cases.

You serious? It's to the point where I don't even bother trying to root them or root graft them even...

[Frubaliscious]

You serious? It's to the point where I don't even bother trying to root them or root graft them even...

well I'm not saying it's easy. I'm sick of people saying they're unrootable though, tough to root, and impossible to root are worlds apart.