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Thread: Friday with(out) Means - August 13th, 2010: Friday the whatnow?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Now, of course, this could potentially come with its own set of issues; naturally there's a chance that it will split the populace some, making BS run a bit less frequently. ... Do you guys think we should tie the new PvP playfield to the BS or not? And if we do, should we force people to join the BS after signing up if they're using this playfield? This is a tough decision on all fronts, so by all means share your opinion here in the thread. =)
    So what about all the people that go with no interest in PvP at all as they just want VP or to do their BS daily? Let's just forget about them, is that it?

    I have to say when it comes to this sort of thing you guys are extremely short sighted regardless of the crew in charge at the time. You added the BSs at a wide range of lvls expecting them to be used and promptly at release you found they weren't as the supposedly interested populace never showed up. Then just to get BSs used you try to pull in anyone through a greatly increased general reward (VP) not directly for use or interest to those that PvP. Later compounding that with more and more VP then recently XP/SK and tokens through the daily mission. Yet BSs still never saw wide use and the population in AO is lower than at the time of the launch of LE.

    Now we have a new PvP play field coming along and shock, gasp, it may muck up participating player numbers causing less activity. Imagine that, who could possibly have seen that coming? Actually some of us (self included) did and told you as such from the time it was first mentioned. Since "active" BSs have been having a hard time getting going at times for ages with most generally dead since launch how on earth did anyone over there not realize that another PvP zone would cause problems about 1.5 years ago when it was first mentioned?

    So now you want feedback on what people want. Here's what I want, kill the BS daily mission, strip all or almost all the VP out of both PvP zones and put it somewhere else not PvP related so those that want VP can get it reasonably at any lvl. Make the BSs and new PvP PF for the PvPers so they can fight people that came to PvP. So then those that claim PvP is the best thing out there as it gives them real thinking difficult opponents other like minded opponents rather than a collection of clay pigeons to pick off. Meanwhile those that want VP can get it without having to deal with all that mess. Both parties then should enjoy things more than when you keep trying to cram them together. PvP in AO given the difference between the PvP twink and whatever else you may be is not fun. It is only potentially fun if you came in willing and at least somewhat prepared.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    One thing I should add in and note is that we *do* want the BS to still be the main source of VP for an individual; we will be adjusting the VP rewards in the new playfield to ensure that our goal of the rewards not overshadowing the amount of VP an individual can receive in the Battle Stations. So while the playfield will maintain rewards and fill in it's own niche, we don't want it to be seen as a greater alternative to receiving VP in the BS.
    Ok, so why is that? Why is VP so critical to BSs? How is VP so relevant to PvP? Why, why, why? I don't get it, really I don't. It makes no sense at all as all I've been hearing for years from those that live in BSs is how useless VP is to them. Not how great it is that they have all this awesome VP to buy useful stuff with. So for what reason are BSs or PvP in general suppose to be the main source of VP, why?

    From what I've seen a growing number of PvP fans have been saying while they like PvP VP isn't related and not a motivation for them. So really, why do you guys insist on that point so much? Some kind of answer after all these years would be great. I don't expect it but I'm sure I'm not alone in asking that question.

  3. #63
    Do it like the bs daily mission if a player signs up for bs while in or before they enter the new pf and stays on bs till one side or the other gets 400 they get between 1-2k vp. If they win aswell that would be even better.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Ok, so why is that? Why is VP so critical to BSs? How is VP so relevant to PvP? Why, why, why? I don't get it, really I don't. It makes no sense at all as all I've been hearing for years from those that live in BSs is how useless VP is to them. Not how great it is that they have all this awesome VP to buy useful stuff with. So for what reason are BSs or PvP in general suppose to be the main source of VP, why?

    From what I've seen a growing number of PvP fans have been saying while they like PvP VP isn't related and not a motivation for them. So really, why do you guys insist on that point so much? Some kind of answer after all these years would be great. I don't expect it but I'm sure I'm not alone in asking that question.
    VP is gasoline!
    It helps get the fire started

    VP attracts random people, random people attracts PVP'ers, PvPers and random people attract more PvP'ers.

    If you take away the VP, the random people wont go there, which leaves a few bored PVP'ers that go there to look for action. Sometimes they go there at the same time and then they tell people that there's action going on and that attracts more PvP'ers because they in turn knows that there's stuff going on. OR Some PvP'ers go and find no one and then they leave and then some other PvP'ers come and find no one and then they leave and then it's empty. Both can happen.

    VP just helps it get started and stay active more often.

    VP is gasoline, random people is the wood and kindling and PvP'ers are sitting around that BBQ'ing
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  5. #65
    I'm eagerly waiting to see just how much this absolutely kills TL2 BS. Can't wait to see it go from running-if-lucky to dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  6. #66
    LOL at the PVPers begging for "red vs blue" BS.

    Especially after years of the big PVP orgs threatening to ban neuts from all the major PVM raids just because they wanted to make BS run when one line or the other was too short to get things started.
    Last edited by Keldros; Aug 13th, 2010 at 19:29:09.

  7. #67
    I'm a bit confused atm though.
    FC is making it so that people can't warp in low levels to this new PF and they say that low levels are not supposed to go there.

    Does that mean:

    1. That this new PF will only be available for the 210-220 crowd

    or

    2. Does it mean that the PF on live servers now is just for high levels but when the PF is tested and finished and polished, it will end up on live servers for ALL levels? As in, 150-174 will get their own PF, 200-209 will get 1 PF and 210-220 will get 1 PF?
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    we will be adjusting the VP rewards in the new playfield to ensure that our goal of the rewards not overshadowing the amount of VP an individual can receive in the Battle Stations.
    So.. VP rewards from that new PF will be less than zero?
    I took a BS daily mission on live when I hit the level range of first BS. Every time I loged in I entered the BS queue and went to do other stuff.
    About 100 slow levels later I still had that mission and was still sitting in queue... I have never been on battlestation on live.. If I can see BS action more on test than on live, then you know there is something seriously wrong.
    I would say it's hard to not overshadow the VP rewards from BS...

    Why don't you do a test.. remove VP from BS for week or 2.. see how much PvPers actually care about VP (They want to buy these gloves with B&E mod, I know.. PvP armor).

    And LE missions are a joke when it comes to VP.. at lvl 10 I get 4 VP from few aliens and at 220 I get 4 VP from few aliens... at least make ALL VP items scale and make them scale well.
    <Means> I always laugh when I have to type "/get sex" when debugging

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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    VP is gasoline!
    It helps get the fire started
    ...
    Based on what evidence? BSs were mostly dead at the launch of LE and even with all the BS missions and insane VP in them they are still mostly dead. Any time they have added more VP there was no real marked increase in activity. The BS dailies at times collect enough people at a dead BS with some help from widely used chat bots to get it going once now and then just for the function of completing the daily, not for PvP. All they've been doing is adding more and more reasons to hopefully pull those that aren't interested in PvPing (at least at the time) in there. They have never once tried the reverse so that theory is nothing but that, a theory. It's completely untested and nothing we've seen so far shows it to be a fact.

    Also you shouldn't use gasoline to start a fire. At least not a controlled one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    I'm a bit confused atm though.
    FC is making it so that people can't warp in low levels to this new PF and they say that low levels are not supposed to go there.

    Does that mean:

    1. That this new PF will only be available for the 210-220 crowd

    or

    2. Does it mean that the PF on live servers now is just for high levels but when the PF is tested and finished and polished, it will end up on live servers for ALL levels? As in, 150-174 will get their own PF, 200-209 will get 1 PF and 210-220 will get 1 PF?
    They said earlier that there would be versions for multiple lvl ranges, I'd imagine the same as the current BS lvl ranges. The current one is just a test version and we were told they didn't want to make adjustments then copy that over multiple times for each lvl range during the test.

  10. #70
    Whatever you end up doing with the new playfield (making it a BS queue or an independent area), please ensure that you are never forced to go there in order to join BS. For some of us, the daily trip to BS to get the VP mission done is already more than enough alpha online.
    Why play melee when crat pets can do your job?
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    Simple, why the melee hate?
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    ...Melee people/pets are needed...

  11. #71
    I reckon a few choice playfields would be better 45-60 90-110 150-170 etc at least in level ranges with high enough interest

  12. #72
    Hi.
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    Bump this thread for Black Atroxes!

  13. #73

    Get on Testlive Then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatess View Post
    So, guess I wasan't so wrong afterall.

    Cause I almost got crucified on Test for saying that the way that server works doesen't test anything at all...

    ATM :

    Testing PvM with Test Server feedback will get you easy instances.
    Testing PvP with Test Server feeback will get you imbalanced pvp.

    Now that you guys have broken your own rules and tested stuff on live, whats the difference on the feedback ? Way better I bet.


    Let me post my petition again :

    1. Delete all characters on Test Server every 2 weeks.

    2. Motivate people to join Test Server by providing them "phatz" on LIVE server (lets say.. a T-shirt ? ;P )


    /rant over
    Test has a low low low population right now.
    Gates I have seen you there, briefly, but at least you do go when the issue interests you.
    Kudos for that.
    And on the same note, when you asked for help testing something, I volunteered immediately.

    Now, Testing mechanics and stuff is a little different than testing balance. obviously you need a large group to test balance, while checking if a new piece of gear is working can be done by much fewer people.
    How do you expect 3 people to test a new raid, or a mass pvp zone or anything that requires a high level balanced team?
    saying testlive doesn't work is stupid. Testlive works and is implemented just fine. the problem is that you(read playerbase) are not using it.

    SO in a nutshell, if you don't like the state that things are being released, get on test, get your friends on test, test things and send bug reports instead of qq.

    ...If you want things to be right the first time.

    otherwise you can stick to the way things are now: patch gets tested minimally by those few who ARE on test and stuff slips by which then has to be fixed later. the only way to improve the results obtained from testlive is to have a more representative sample of the live population.

    deleting toons on test would not encourage people to go there.

    you mention testing on live bringing better feedback. well testing on live is nothing more then FC adding incomplete broken content. the only difference is that they told us they were going to do it.

    This brings us to the fact that even when things are reported, they may not be fixed. I have seen Means say that a patch will be going out on Tuesday and then spoke to a dev the same day who said "he said when?!? we have like 3 more weeks of work before that is ready to go live.. "
    Tir Muffin Co-op : Free muffin lovin' for all teh clanners

  14. #74
    An interesting thought came to my mind....
    How about something (dunno, a nano or...er..something) that, once you spend enough time in the pvp pf modifies the amount of VP gotten in BS?
    As in "uve been warming up @ new pvp field, u get +50% VP from BS!" ?
    I know that it sounds wicked to code (at least to me?) but it'd be a nice bait to stick to both of these.

    Also: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE make the "grab vp from a dead-person-stick-item" either insta or 1 sec...pretty PLEASEEE!!
    Last edited by Koizumi; Aug 13th, 2010 at 20:02:51.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  15. #75

    BS Idea

    1. Make Neuts their own side. There is after all a C starting position.
    2. Make it run when there is any 3x3 match up combination.
    3. When a side takes control of the BS that side has Orbital Strike enabled (for the level ranges associated with each BS) until another sides takes control back. It is after all Orbital Strike enabled by the battle stations being in orbit. So one would assume story line wise that the side calling for an orbital strike would have control of the BS.
    4. After a server restart the battle station is under no ones control and must be taken to enable orbital strikes.
    5. If a battle station sits idle for 1 hour then the level range that it enables orbital strike for is disabled for all sides.

    In short tie all the story line stuff together with the BS mechanics. You can bet the BS's would run a good deal more just so that Orbital strike is availabe. A good example. Clan wants to launch a huge effort for the top tower fields held by omni. First they run BS and get control thus removing OS from omni and then launch the tower attack. The clan BS crew has one - job keep OS disabled for Omni. The tower attack team has to get the field down before the BS team is overwhelmed. Mean while the omnis see some TL5 fields go hot because of the clan attack and take the TL5 BS and then attack the clan TL5 sites. Clan not wanting to loose the TL5 sites has to shed some of the attack force to go defend. They get there and see no OS available so they now shed more poeple from the TL7 forces to the TL5 BS and fight for control. Omni sees a chance to win the defense of the TL7 spots by logging in all thier TL7's and letting clan keep the TL5 sites and winning without OS. Clan though does not see this till it is to late and loose their bid for the TL7 sites.

    Anyway just an idea.
    Lheann
    President of When I Grow Up

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  16. #76
    Or maybe you could add a new reward to BS that can be used on PVP fields (bs and new field).

    For example, you get a medal at the end, victory doesn't matter here, and you exchange it with a npc at the lounge area who will give you a buff, a proc, a temp ring, a one use item that will work only in these areas, rod of dismissal style...

    I won't pretend to know what bonus can be small enough yet useful enough for a pvper to go in BS from time to time to get their medal, plus different TLs swould mean different bonuses. Said bonuses wouldn't be farmed through unique tags (I don't like timers so much).

    We can give some stats (damage shield, max hp, hot, a small set of prof buffs), or we can go the less traveled road like +25% skill lock, -10k AC perk action, a wen wen pet, -100 specials (may work nice at lower TL)...

    Dunno how good of an idea it is but perhaps we can all walk happy if BS had it's own reason to exist besides 'well, it's 25% more vp per hour'.

    Edit : 2 more beat me to it (neut side on bs would lock towers out even more for neuts, I don't care a lot but I know some will). I think we're getting the point, such field was really needed aoutise of TL5 and 7 but solid unique and reusable stuff to collect helps on the long term.

    About BS queue :
    - Remove LD, offline people
    - Add a side button, perk/level up style to show you're on bs, clicking on it reopen the BS window
    - Don't remove the leave queue button on zoning, seriously WTF ?
    - 30 mins in AFK => out of queue
    - Add such button for afk and lft while you're at it.
    Last edited by boltgun; Aug 13th, 2010 at 20:10:33.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Based on what evidence? BSs were mostly dead at the launch of LE and even with all the BS missions and insane VP in them they are still mostly dead. Any time they have added more VP there was no real marked increase in activity. The BS dailies at times collect enough people at a dead BS with some help from widely used chat bots to get it going once now and then just for the function of completing the daily, not for PvP. All they've been doing is adding more and more reasons to hopefully pull those that aren't interested in PvPing (at least at the time) in there. They have never once tried the reverse so that theory is nothing but that, a theory. It's completely untested and nothing we've seen so far shows it to be a fact.

    Also you shouldn't use gasoline to start a fire. At least not a controlled one.
    How effective BS is without VP and with VP is besides the point I was making. Pure logic tells us that VP acts as gasoline. The only thing we can discuss around that specific topic is how effective it is. You seem to believe that VP has very little effect on how active BS is and I don't have much empirical evidence to point to from AO to counter your beliefs. The only thing I know is that VP does help keep BS active. The one thing I don't know is exactly how much effect it really has. It might be a minute effect. But again, the scale of it is besides the point I was trying to make. VP is gasoline and this gasoline is a tried and true formula for a lot of different games. I have seen games before and after developers added "gasoline" and I have seen what has happened in games when gasoline was part of the original game but was later taken away. The affect was always bigger than anticipated because gasoline has an accumulative effect on a playerbase.

    Exactly how AO would be affected if VP was removed from BS, I can't tell you but I can make a very educated guess and that would be that BS would run less by a factor of x (x being "unknown but larger than 0"). This is only logical anyway. If you know that some people go on BS mainly to get VP then you know that less people would go to BS if you removed it. The accumulative affect I mentioned earlier is that if fewer people go on BS then it will run less. If it runs less then PvP'ers will check it out less. If they do get BS to run then it will be less fun because there are much less people inside, which again will make it run less. 4 vs 5 is not as fun as 20 vs 20. It's like a landslide and I have seen it happen both in AO and other MMO's. It's because of these small changes that cause accumulative affects, that PvP spots, hangout spots, PvM spots and such change location in MMO's. AO has many examples of this.

    All I can ask you is, if VP is not gasoline, then what is it? Why is it a part of BS? Why is PvP-points part of instanced PvP in WOW? Why is it part of instanced PVP in AoC? Why do developers keep adding it? Is it because it helps keep PvP more active? I personally think so. Is it to give PvP'ers a reason to go there beyond just PvP'ing for no reason? Yes, sure. It is however anything but pointless and such PvP-currency that we see in AO and WOW and AOC and all the other MMO's out there are made just as much for PvP'ers as it is for PvM'ers, if not more so.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Aug 13th, 2010 at 20:13:56.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  18. #78
    Edit: Nvm, I'm not good with walls of text.
    Last edited by drops; Aug 13th, 2010 at 20:12:25.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Love you too, dude.
    I love you Brad.
    Shuzzy bureacrat

  20. #80
    Hat please.

    And pics of new engine or it's not real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if all the attributes were combined into one skill called "goodness?"

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