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Thread: Friday with(out) Means - August 13th, 2010: Friday the whatnow?

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Galilei View Post
    Here's my thoughts how these pvp zones could work together:

    New zone doesn't drop VPs (or extremely low amount) - this ensures that Battlestations are the best way to obtain VPs.

    The new pvp zone drops profession specific items that require solo pvp titles to use! What the items are, that's for devs to decide. Each profession would have it's own nodrop unique item and to gain those, you'd need to fight in this new pvp zone to get it... each solo pvp rank would allow higher ql of item to be used.

    Also this new zone would be the place to gain (buy/loot) the "Remote battlestation sign-up beacon" that "sends a shuttle at your location for pick-up when battlestation starts"...
    My name is Rktim and i condone this message..

    Look at that post, now look at me.. Aint i awesome?
    And if im awesome and i condone this message, then it must surely be awesome also.
    Look at my hand, theres a QFT in it.
    Now look at you and then me again, i got OT-shades on and im still awesome.
    So if you want to be awesome then implement the ideas above.

    Im on a hoverboard...
    Last edited by Rktim; Aug 18th, 2010 at 09:22:26.
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Messiah has spoken.

  2. #162
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and compare some argumentation used on BS to PvM situations. TLDR: It's the same with PvP and PvM.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    If VP was gone VP farmers wouldn't go. If BS dailies were gone, those just trying to get some more XP/SK and tokens along with some more VP wouldn't go.
    People would not go to Beast if it didn't drop armor, BoC or weapons even though the raid is supposed to be challenging and fun. Same for Collector - with loot nerf it became quite dead. It's no different.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Some have set up VP farm rounds where no actual PvP goes on at all. On RK2 the 200-209 BS was used like that for months with a dedicated bot to organize it. No actual PvP would go on and if much at all did people left causing it to go dead.

    Just because a BS runs doesn't make it a success. It supposedly was to be a place to PvP. So if people go not looking to PvP and avoid it when inside, that's not working as intended. If those not looking to PvP discourage people that want to PvP from going in, that's not working as intended. Having all these things not related to PvP in BSs is the cause of that. It may get some people to go but they aren't going to PvP and that is taking away from a place meant for PvP.
    So, PvM. Instanced Pande. Why do people actively avoid PvM by running past most of the mobs, not killing side bosses and quite usually the important professions on LFT say "LF beast, clear instance only". Little actual PvM is going on with the focus on just getting past most of it as easily as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    In AO the strength of some PvP twink at the top or near the top of a BS range versus some I'm just trying to get VP and levels char can be huge. The PvP twink can just plain obliterate the other player without even trying. Even a group of VP farming leveling chars will get splattered by one good PvP twink. So tell me how that is or should be fun to either.
    How is it fun to do raids, say, Beast, as a 210 MP when compared to a decked out 220 crat? How useful will you feel, will your contribution be felt, would it matter if you wiped? You're going to be at or damn near useless in the raid, and to make matters worse - even at 220, decked out, in the above situation you're going to feel the pain of being obliterated in terms of PvM performance by the important professions, in turn meaning that getting a pick up group - and even making your own is going to be tricky - while some get invited the minute they show up on LFT. How is that supposed to be fun?

    So, the above things are related to both PvP and PvM and you shouldn't go judging battle stations because of them.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  3. #163
    I don't know if it's mentioned yet, but an important factor in making BS work is making it so that you are kicked from the queue when you log off. Half of the BSes fail because there only is offline people in queue... and those don't show up :P. I'm not sure you guys are aware of this issue and I hope this is not "make Macrosun cry"-territory. At the other hand, I'm not sure how important this issue is, since there will still be too few people; it merely just saves us some frustration with BS failing after a minute...
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    YEs, tie them together, in the sence of upon bs join you get auto placed in the pvp area
    And lose everyone who does BS only for the daily, having NO desire to be warped into another pvp area.

  5. #165
    HAI! I WISH shrinking BRACER worked IN social.
    RK
    Roxburry 220/30/70 Cratz0r
    Roxbury 220/25/70 Shadez0r
    Bolrn 220/27/70 Mpz0r
    Arrow83 220/27/70 Solz0r

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Edta View Post
    I don't know if it's mentioned yet, but an important factor in making BS work is making it so that you are kicked from the queue when you log off. Half of the BSes fail because there only is offline people in queue... and those don't show up :P. I'm not sure you guys are aware of this issue and I hope this is not "make Macrosun cry"-territory. At the other hand, I'm not sure how important this issue is, since there will still be too few people; it merely just saves us some frustration with BS failing after a minute...
    I don't think it should kick them from the queue immediately on log off, but after a period of inactivity like being AFK, e.g. after 3 minutes of being logged off, allowing people to re-log to another character quickly if needed and back without loosing their spot in the queue. Other than that, yes.
    Ebondevil - Omni Level 220 Agent on Atlantean, Feel free to contact me any time if you have questions, in game or out.
    Varinox - Omni Level 220 Meta-Physicist on Atlantean
    Yamarra - Omni Level 150 Shade on Atlantean

    Feel free to send me any tell in game or a Private Message if you require anything.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    People would not go to Beast if it didn't drop armor, BoC or weapons even though the raid is supposed to be challenging and fun. Same for Collector - with loot nerf it became quite dead. It's no different.
    PvM in AO has always been the bread and butter way of improving your char. You always got your levels and gear that way. PvP though was and still really is a thing to do when your char is basically done.

    VP buying gear, nanos and such gained through PvP to make your char more useful though does not fit into that order. Since if you need that then your char is not ready so can easily fall prey to those that are given the power difference between the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    So, PvM. Instanced Pande. Why do people actively avoid PvM by running past most of the mobs, not killing side bosses and quite usually the important professions on LFT say "LF beast, clear instance only". Little actual PvM is going on with the focus on just getting past most of it as easily as possible.
    In Pand and such skipping what you don't want to deal with is an option due to how it's set up. It's not uncommon for some boss types to be over here, others over there and so on. Many zones are even set up so you can skip ahead easily enough if you have some sort of pass or transportation (Biomare/Foremans & IS (passes), SL (statues) and RK (whom-pahs, grid, fgrid, yalms) for instance). If they want you to deal with everything they design it that way such as in team Dark Ruins where if you leave some valley mobs they get summoned and set after you by the Spirit Goddess later.

    Although at BSs its primary function is suppose to be PvP. If people go to a place designed to be a place people PvP in but they don't it's not being used as intended. So then when it's used by this group one way and another group another we get situations like we have now where neither group is happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    How is it fun to do raids, say, Beast, as a 210 MP when compared to a decked out 220 crat? How useful will you feel, will your contribution be felt, would it matter if you wiped? You're going to be at or damn near useless in the raid, and to make matters worse - even at 220, decked out, in the above situation you're going to feel the pain of being obliterated in terms of PvM performance by the important professions, in turn meaning that getting a pick up group - and even making your own is going to be tricky - while some get invited the minute they show up on LFT. How is that supposed to be fun?
    The reason people look for just those tiny pick-up teams for loot farming is as more people in the group lower your odds of getting what you want. That's just the way the old random loot function works. Some profs have some special function others don't or are clearly better at so they will always be picked up faster when that special function is of use and they want very small teams.

    Although some for example being able to put in more damage than char A making char A feel less useful is a world apart from char A getting splattered constantly by char B, C, D and so on. In the PvM example you're still always making a contribution, it just isn't as significant as higher more special purpose chars and profs. In the PvP example you can really only do something if no one attacks you, as if they do you're dead again. Try to hop in an APT to be of use that way and even then are still those that can easily ignore you, cap and run off.

    Then with the way loot and zones generally work in PvM you can help kill the mob with one char then loot with another. This way you could even bring your highly desired char, get teams easily then log and loot with your unwanted one. Can't get pick-up teams? Get things going with those in your org and/or allied orgs. You certainly can't do any of that well at all with VP aside from the VP nanos.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    I only read the first half of your post and I stopped there because you apparently didn't read the post you were quoting, so I'm not going to keep ping-ponging in depth replies with you.

    If nothing else, at least read the last part of my post. That part explains the things you once again seem to have missed in this latest reply of yours. I would just be repeating myself for the n'th time if I were to say any more than this now.
    I read it. The problem is as I told you in the prior posts you can't just ignore how effective it is. This isn't years ago before all the bumps when there was no way of telling how effective VP would be to get people both in and happily PvPing in BSs. This is now, we and they can look at how effective it has been, what has happened to BSs and what people do in them.

    So you can't just say it's to get people in and that's that any more. It doesn't work now. This is now, not then. No matter how much you want to say the effectiveness doesn't matter, it does. That's a big reason why I was asking why in the first place. Since it hasn't helped to bring people looking to PvP into BSs why keep adding it and insisting it be the main source? I said as such even in that first post where I asked the question, you just chose to ignore that from the start.

    You can't answer a question by ignoring the parts you don't want to deal with, it doesn't answer the question that way. You're the one dragging this out by ignoring the crux of my question. And of course as a player you can't exactly answer what the motivations of the devs are now. Although as I said even then I don't expect them to answer it but I'm sure others want to know why as well.

  9. #169

    Funcom employee

    Just as a note: Something went dumb with the PvP playfield on exporting it and the Beacon Warp issue is *not* fixed yet. This should be addressed next time we ship out the playfield.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  10. #170
    What's the plan with level ranges of the pvp pf? Same as BS? I guess that might have advantages (such as no need to think about it, and maybe it might help to keep BS more active), but a different set of level ranges could be very interesting. More variation, more spreading out of twinks, more anarchy are some advantages.
    One thing froob pvpers will surely appreciate is lvl 200 being the highest level allowed. Joining BS with a lvl 200 froob between all those people with shadowlevels is simply madness.
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  11. #171
    even lvl 200 froobs vs tl5 players is madness

  12. #172
    If you d lower the amount of people needed to start a BS round, it wouldn't matter much if the new PF were to be linked to BS or not, since the remaining BS fans could attend it. 1 vs 1 should suffice to have fun. If you are too scared of the possible VP abuse, makes it 2 vs 2. 3 vs 3 and is risky and won't run all the time.

    If you are still scared that at 3 vs 3 people multi box toons to farm pvp, it s just your concern to makes boring VP grind interesting so players don't have to cheat in the first place.

  13. #173
    i dont know if its been stated....im NOT reading the entire thread to find out....but my idea for the waiting area is to PARTIALLY tie it into BS....that is...a lot of ppl do bs for the VP ONLY...and a lot of ppl do BS for the pvp...ONLY....so i dont see why anyone in the second category wouldnt MIND doing at least 1 round of BS...because it includes pvp of course...plenty of it.

    so give incentive to BOTH groups of ppl to want to do either....give VP to kills in the waiting area...PLUS:

    give credits (not to buy with, but for lack of a better word) to those who "successfully complete a round of BS, either win or lose....they have to stay in till the round is over"...initially, you would earn a 1:1 ratio of credits/tokens....that means without any special credits, u cant enter the waiting pvp zone, which means u wait outside the boring bs terminal like normal.....as your pvp rank goes up...u get more "special" credits per completion of BS. this will reward ppl for earning those "worthless" pvp titles...as the higher rank you have, the more credits you get for entering the pvp zone.

    that way, you still have to occasionally join BS if you are a pro and earn 10 credits per round of BS....but even if you are their for VP, you arent stuck sitting there waiting outside a stupid BS terminal for nothing...u can get some extra VP by going into the pvp zone, while u wait for the round to start....PLUS...wouldnt it be great to have a few daily missions for the new zone ie, collect 20 vp awards in a day for added bonus, from the pvp area...daily mission...things like that. this gives added VP incentive to ppl that want VP only in BS to do a little bit more pvp.

    team kills could also count for a daily mission reward, for those that arent comfortable doing pvp solo but still want VP.

  14. #174
    Whatever option you decide to go with, I think this new PF will inevitably reduce BS participation, which is a pity as it had been a bit more active recently ( in the few active ranges ), mainly due to the daily missions.

    As you point out, forcing people to join BS from this PF is neither desirable nor likely to work, so that seems like a bad direction to go.

    As its unlikely you are going to uninvent this PF, I think the end result will be a lot of non pvp-enthusiasts being stuck for a viable way of getting VP.

    I dont think just adding VP to the new PF ( and effectively replacing the BS) will work, as this PF sounds even less fun than BS for non-pvpers - enough so that many will just not go even if thats the only place to find VP.

    Without thinking up an entirely new way of getting VP, I think you will need to consider some daily missions with VP rewards that dont involve a non-running BS
    or reducing the numbers per side required to get the BS running.

    This is only speculation at this point, but if this is the way things go, I dont think waiting months for people to be able to get their VP again would do much for player retention.

  15. #175
    as you have already said, BS has increased, if for only because of dailies. under MY plan...a person would not be required to enter the pvp pf to enter BS....they WOULD be required to enter BS .....minimally in order to enter the pvp pf.

    adding daily missions to the pvp pf would entice those ppl who already only do BS for the dailies to also participate in the pvp pf....

    ppl who want to ONLY do the pvp pf will HAVE to occasionally do BS....

    when bs rounds start...many ppl will leave, making the pf less playable... so perhaps that will entice pvpers to enter bs to continue their pvp.

    the only difference of this pf SHOULD be...is that it is a waiting area to enter bs...in principle. much like the area outside the bs terminals in which many ppl duel. those who duel outside that terminal are not required to sign up for bs...but most do, as they are generally there for bs anyway, and duel as a means of passing the time.

    in this respect, i dont believe that you should be required to enter BS once you have entered the pvp area, however, in order to access the pvp area, i believe u should have to earn the right to be in it...its sort of a reverse thought behind requiring ppl to enter bs if they are in the pvp area. that kind of logic is kind of backwards...i think this makes more sense.

  16. #176
    just something I'd like to say...

    I can haz avatar hat?

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Just as a note: Beacon Warp
    Mmmmmm. Bacon wrap.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Flipyap View Post
    Mmmmmm. Bacon wrap.
    gruuuul wrapolisous....
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Messiah has spoken.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Rktim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flipyap View Post
    Mmmmmm. Bacon wrap.
    gruuuul wrapolisous....
    Hope next post contains some bacon wrap too. World is better with Bacon, Ao would be better with bacon too!

    Edit: *ME SAD* No Bacon in AO! What is dev-team going to do to fix this HUGE issue?
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
    Ekaslave 220/low Female Solitus Trader, FLAT(TM) pricing TS, almost all can do!
    Ekaros almost there/almost there too Male Solitus Martial-Artist.
    Ekadv gimp/gimp Female Opifex Adventurer

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekarona View Post
    No Bacon in AO!
    What? No bacon in AO? We have Alien Bacon. Recall Bacon. Bacon Wrap.
    See? Plenty of bacon right there!

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