Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 205

Thread: Friday with Means - August 20th, 2010 - Enforcers + Fixers

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Overall, thanks for the max health nerfs, it might make all my PVM sacrifices meaningful and we can use our full health in any situation now. Damage mitigation is completely trashed, survival is non-existant, and chances to properly modify enforcer offense levels are so far ignored. I like the thought of helping my teammates in pvp for once, but it seems I won't survive long enough for other players to try to ignore me in pvp anymore.
    So, as I read this all actually, you're saying that cooldown on layers - 1/3 of what you could theoretically cast now - means damage mitigation is gone even though there's a new toy thrown in. Secondly, the loss of runspeed means that survival is non-existant, even though the effective usable HP in PvP has gone up rather than down? The "properly modifying enf offense" means "I didn't get more AR".

    I could maybe understand the above if they removed NR from Rage, removed caps on special attacks and kept the snare on SL essences.

    You even forgot the PvP taunts from your summary, which are something that have come up time and time again in these enf discussions - in the vein of "We need the run speed from rage to pwn because we're not really tanks as we can't taunt people".
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  2. #122
    Would it be possible for dev posts/patch notes to post a human readable summary of the actual, detailed changes, rather than just some spreadsheets?
    Primordiax RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
    http://www.primordiax.com

    Muckbeast - MMO Game Developer Blog
    http://www.muckbeast.com

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by thresholdrpg View Post
    Would it be possible for dev posts/patch notes to post a human readable summary of the actual, detailed changes, rather than just some spreadsheets?
    They try to camouflage it!

  4. #124
    wow.... epic fail on the enf documents FC...
    way to kill a whole profession in pvp.
    way to ignore the enf professionals.
    way to completly ignore the enf playerbase.

    reduced alpha speed and power from the perk documents.
    reduced effective stun time from perks.
    reduced survivability from the nano spreadsheets.
    and a pvp taunt when we are losing ways of mitigate dmg?
    someone at FCs side has made a major f***up.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  5. #125

    Fixer Concerns

    1) maybe it's just eyestrain but i cant see 'Energize Rubi-Ka Grid Tunnel' in the spreadsheet
    2) Please, while you are working on the nano fix the clan garden landing spot for the 'Tap Notum Vein' line. Back in 2003 there were 4 transit statues at that spot but ever since then it's been the most pointless spot to possibly appear at
    Last edited by Neista; Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:14:02.
    ALTS: Alienhunter, Moonglum, Quellist, Quellcrist, Jesharet

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulTarder View Post
    when i saw that enfo rage had runspeed buff removed, I half expected to keep scrolling down and see a new enforcer "adrenaline/charge/sprint" nanoline, where for a duration of like 5-10 seconds (with appropriate cooldown) an enforcer would gain a sudden surge of speed and an increased crit/stun chance. good thing i only half expected to see a compromise.
    They said they will offer "unique" option for enfs to catch their opponents. Soon (tm)
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  7. #127
    It's funny, when people compare future nanos to current situation and cry how it sucks, instead of realizing, that after rebalancing most things will be different and things, they cry about, might be advantage. But i understand it, everyone wants to be king of the hill and get OP stuff with whines. It's human nature.
    i R not spik engrish

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    It's funny, when people compare future nanos to current situation and cry how it sucks, instead of realizing, that after rebalancing most things will be different and things, they cry about, might be advantage. But i understand it, everyone wants to be king of the hill and get OP stuff with whines. It's human nature.
    Got your whines ready for the crat changes yet? I was thinking of going along the lines of: "First stun procs, now this? MEANS HATEZ CRATZ!!11".

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    So, as I read this all actually, you're saying that cooldown on layers - 1/3 of what you could theoretically cast now - means damage mitigation is gone even though there's a new toy thrown in. Secondly, the loss of runspeed means that survival is non-existant, even though the effective usable HP in PvP has gone up rather than down?
    A 10 minute lockout on a buff that will damage the enforcer in a damage line used by 50% of AO and only lasts SEVEN SECONDS. How about we make your DoF, Limber, and Bio Cocoon last 7 seconds and watch you try to pvp with 1/3 the healing power to boot.

    The amount of max health we have is pointless when we are among the slowest professions, and even more pointless when our already low ability to heal+mitigate damage decreases on the scale it has in this documentation. How can we run from players, and how can we tank their damage with these changes? Parry+riposte which we have absolutely no support for? Even with MA's and keepers getting parry+riposted AND support for it, they only recieved large boosts to their toolsets that were already better defensively than enforcers.

    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    The "properly modifying enf offense" means "I didn't get more AR".
    No, I explained what that meant. We recieved no damage add, we recieved no crit chance, we recieved no weapon skill in exchange for AAO, we recieved no alternative that allows our perks to land "temporarily", we recieved no increase in exchange for removing our LE proc reliance. The only thing we recieved was that pvp taunt which is a support tool, and some special skill buffs.

    Shall I post the things keepers recieved boosting them in their nano doc or can you read all of that yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    I could maybe understand the above if they removed NR from Rage, removed caps on special attacks and kept the snare on SL essences.
    I honestly do not mind the loss of runspeed if it forces enforcers to fight, but ****ing give us some defenses to do that like we have asked for.

    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    You even forgot the PvP taunts from your summary, which are something that have come up time and time again in these enf discussions - in the vein of "We need the run speed from rage to pwn because we're not really tanks as we can't taunt people".
    Oh I remembered them, and no that is not what enforcers have said. We wanted taunts as a means to assist others, actually save another player like we do in pvm. We also do not use the runspeed to "pwn" people, we use it as our best means of surviving attackers.

    I am sure whatever tools FC gives us to help deal with the "runspeed" problem will be useless for keeping us alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSK View Post
    It's funny, when people compare future nanos to current situation and cry how it sucks, instead of realizing, that after rebalancing most things will be different and things, they cry about, might be advantage. But i understand it, everyone wants to be king of the hill and get OP stuff with whines. It's human nature.
    Did you SEE what other professions got boosted? Has FC said anything about completely nerfing PVM? Have those increases in profession offenses and damage in a lot of cases just been my imagination? There is no future of AO in which those changes are a good thing, period.




    If FC has some hidden benefits for enforcers to where these changes are justified, as someone who has supported FC through all the twists and turns, I absolutely cannot see it. Enforcers are a tanking profession, you want them to be a tank then they need massive damage mitigation.. You obviously are pulling us away from a run and gank profession, so what are you doing to enforcers? Solo PVM doesn't even seem to be a concern for FC staff.
    Last edited by Gatester; Aug 21st, 2010 at 17:45:55.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by crattey View Post
    Got your whines ready for the crat changes yet? I was thinking of going along the lines of: "First stun procs, now this? MEANS HATEZ CRATZ!!11".
    Oh yeah :evilface: I hope our changes will be last, so we can whine about most accurate future.
    i R not spik engrish

  11. #131
    I love this thread, people threatening to quit over trivial changes.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganiscol View Post
    Fear line - why not remove it entirely?
    Yes please...fears are one of the most retarded ideas for a nano iv ever seen.

    Am i reading right that enfs just got MORE NR added to rage lines? are you serious?! devs better be staying the hell away from CB if they are dishing out MORE rather than LESS.
    Vitaliy - 220/30 NM NT
    Vitiate - 220/30 Soli Crat
    Paralympics - 220/30 NM Agent
    Vitx - 150/20 Opi Tarder

    Paradise & Parasite

  13. #133
    As fix/enf are professions i know well & like to play, i gotta admit i was awaiting real tweakings. so i read everything several times in details and my first reaction is this (including 0% irony).

    I just wanted to start by pointing up a probable mistake on "New Line: Single Target NCU Buffs" : in the notes all requirement are "If target's level > 25". Over with negative feedback.

    Out of that dudes ... GG & THX ; usual instabuffing all team (hot, ncu, rs, essence, absorb, shield) & fixer won't need to swap/leave team anymore to buff/fgrid lone targets -wich was 100% annoyant. also i appreciate the way you regulated enfo RS (out of rage but unchanged by SL HP) for PVP rebalance without nerfing PVM, as much as evades now selfed (out of RS & suppressor buffs) back to us proud hackaz ! making smuggler's/bootlegs & all these useless archaisms replaced by worthy stuff + all the ncu cleaning options (self & other) really open to an extended fixer gameplay.

    Especially i agree the way you balanced PO all along levels/titles with simple AR-conditionned effect. if not in the tube already, i'd dream to see this similarly implemented on traders PVP-draining as the concept i suggested in a balancing thread. (mainly for low level PVP imo).

    All in all, that's a strike ; exhaustive rework for gameplay improvement fitting PVP rebalance context. hope to see that "excellence" on incoming tasks (other profs, startup, engine)

    ps : i see many people /nerf-alert-mode-on, but honestly PVP enfos had crazy 1HE/1HB alpha & lotta AR/NR/RS/HP. they weren't the most OPed (as e.g. lowbie trad or HL r-advys) but fixing perk-sploits and HP+RS for both PVM challenge and PVP balance is a nice choice. so try before you cry.
    Last edited by bitnykk; Aug 21st, 2010 at 21:28:07.
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    A 10 minute lockout on a buff that will damage the enforcer in a damage line used by 50% of AO and only lasts SEVEN SECONDS. How about we make your DoF, Limber, and Bio Cocoon last 7 seconds and watch you try to pvp with 1/3 the healing power to boot.

    ...

    I honestly do not mind the loss of runspeed if it forces enforcers to fight, but ****ing give us some defenses to do that like we have asked for.
    The comparison would be quite valid if advies receive something like a 7 second CIB on top. But tell you what - let's go out and see how long does it take to kill an enf with the HP values the nano changes suggest, usual end game HD, graft reflects (or why not even RRFE) with the enf only casting layers once every 15 seconds at maximum, plus casting mongo as usual. I won't use AS so it'll be more consistent with what's cooking.

    I do foresee a future where adv heals are a thing you can't spam 24/7 til the cows come home, as well. But that'll be seen so I digress. On challenger, I agree it probably would have been a better way of going if it was a temporary, significant AR boost.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  15. #135
    From what I read it seems like enforcer is being pushed more towards teaming with doctors for more survival, DD classes for faster killing and MP/NT/trader/keeper for nano maintenace.

    I would not be surprised if it turned out in the end that everything was done to make it necessary to team with others as solo abilities are getting hit with nerf stick in one way or the others.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    The comparison would be quite valid if advies receive something like a 7 second CIB on top. But tell you what - let's go out and see how long does it take to kill an enf with the HP values the nano changes suggest, usual end game HD, graft reflects (or why not even RRFE) with the enf only casting layers once every 15 seconds at maximum, plus casting mongo as usual. I won't use AS so it'll be more consistent with what's cooking.

    I do foresee a future where adv heals are a thing you can't spam 24/7 til the cows come home, as well. But that'll be seen so I digress. On challenger, I agree it probably would have been a better way of going if it was a temporary, significant AR boost.
    After Harios pointed it out I went and re-read it again and noticed a little note:

    Code:
    Team	Cast	Team Superior Fortify					Not Self
    Self	Hit	Health: Melee	-15000				User: Cyberdeck: & 6
    that means no absorb for the enforcer, just the 15000 nuke.

    Take into account the fact that the perk change documentation told us this:

    o Add All Offense will only be applied to weapon skills and weapon
    specials.


    Discounting challenger and other AAO buffs from our perk chances, and only including base weapon skill, we end up on the lower end of combat prof weapon skill.



    If FC is adjusting other aspects such as enforcer weapon skill amounts, HD effect, and absorb levels based on additional stats, then perhaps these changes will be ok, but FC needs to tell us these things more directly or at least our professionals because they obviously have heard nothing in this regard. And what really really pisses me off is that other professions are getting even more solo pvm love, and enforcers are more and more reliant on every other profession in AO just to do simple tasks.
    Last edited by Gatester; Aug 21st, 2010 at 23:26:31.

  17. #137
    Profession A is overpowered and Funcom nerfs it.
    Profession B is underpowered and Funcom boosts it.

    *PATCH*

    Profession B is overpowered and Funcom nerfs it.
    Profession A is underpowered and Funcom boosts it.

    Good examples are NT's and Traders...

    Now this might sound as a regular flame but here comes the thing:
    These 'balance changes' were done by adding a few big changes to the game.
    Borrow reflect, Triples, Unremovable Roots, Nemesis nano's, GTH, etc.
    From the current approach you can state that FC learned from this.
    They are now changing all the nano's in an effort to get to the root.
    The core of the profession is being redesigned and I find it scary as hell.
    One thing we can state is that enforcers will feel totally different after the balance patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrien View Post
    We have been commenting on these documents for 3 weeks now, and have gotten 0 feedback from FC after day one as to what you are thinking for enforcers. I figured that due to the delay in the feedback, you might delay an extra week to give the professionals, at least the enforcer professionals, a chance to give feedback. Instead you released the docs in this public location, forcing us to comment in public, which I truly regret.
    If you consider this approach and the intensity of the changes, I am worried.
    'The bigger picture' has been mentioned a lot along with these documents.
    I really hope the professionals see that bigger picture too.. because I don't.
    What is the use of showing us these documents when we can't understand the bigger picture?
    Examples: What will happen to run speed? What will happen to healing?
    Many enforcers have pointed out changes that could work out dramatically.
    The way how some key aspects got changed without feedback from professionals feels wrong.
    If funcom redesigns the core of a profession, then at least INCLUDE the community (professionals).

    Can't say much about the current changes but it makes me afraid of losing the profession I always loved.
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  18. #138
    I wonder how FC will implement the new nanos in terms of: What happens to the old nanos that a char has uploaded? Some will change to others, new ones need to be bought/blizzed (in terms of 1 nanoline now becomes two nanolines then), some will just disappear.

    In terms of fixer nanos: Summoning Homing Permorpha Bullets - (Fixer Special Attack) would be nice, too. (not only cluster bullets).

    Btw. All these Levelscalling buffstuff is a nice idea. Buffs that are used for twinking should not be touched by this or it will produce problems with already twinked in stuff on old chars vs. new chars.

    Could be a funny anarchic-chaotic time for all players when these changes (don't like the word "rebalance") hit live. I see some months of players getting new stuff + retwinking like hell.

  19. #139
    There are surprisingly few people complaining about the changes to Gridspace Freedom (and the rest of that line) in these documents. What's up with the level check in the single target version?

    I may only be one of those PvMers - good for nothing but VP farming - but this would be bad for me. For a start, it was really nice the first time a random fixer cast GSF on me. I know that runspeed will be faster after the rebalance for lower characters but it's still a nice boost for 40 minutes and it's one of those really visable changes to your character that lets new players know about how other profesions can help them. GSF is also just a really useful tool, good for running to Foremans or a player shop if you have a Fixer friend.

    Again, this isn't about PvP (mabey being PvP flagged/on a battlestation could activate this level check for buffs?) but I'm kind of worried about how far this check will go. It's fine in the team version (you press one button to buff your whole team, you pay the penalty of the level check) but it's target buffs I'm worried about; what about kind Doctors who heal up wounded toons in cities, or kind MPs buffing people with Neural Web? Will Trader Wrangles get a level lock too? This game is about twinking, not level locks. If you have the NCU and the right friends to get a really high nano running you, why on earth should it not be allowed?
    Hello and welcome to The Internet. Please leave your common sense, decency and humanity with the doorman. Have a nice stay.

    Squad Commander and resident Shade of When I Grow Up

    Is your GUI getting in the way of playing AO?
    Do you want to be able to take screenshots quickly and easily without hotbars, wings and chat windows getting in the way?
    Are you getting tired of that blue colour scheme?
    Try using my Uncluttered GUI!

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by crattey View Post
    Think they want to prevent fixers selling them from player shops, which would be the case if you'd get ql250-300 stims.
    Funny enough crats have an item(35s cooldown) that spits out infinite items for free and sell stacks of that in the playershops..

    The fixer summon nanoes have a credit cost..
    If you disagree with the cost, which is what it looks like you are, then suggest a reasonable price for the ql250-300 stims.

    There is a point in needing higher QL stims.
    I guess that is why the original developers made the summoning nanoes like they were, so you can get the QL you like..
    I like that could(can) choose the QL, that way I have helped many low lvl toons.
    Sure it means more missions to run for nanos (especially for agents), but it gives a community feeling to be able to help lower toons and rewards those being able to twink into higher QLs.

    High lvl toons are cool, they can spawn equipment and (in the future) health kits for the newcommers.

    PS. Will the "Heavy Galean Close Combat" set then come ingame in some other way?
    It has a VERY cool look, but currently the only way to obtain it (as I and others know it) is to summon it with the fixer nanos.
    Has been a status item for clothesoholics for the pasts years as it is temporary.

    Further more I liked that I could summon armors for social tab, and not having to worry about backpack space, as they are only temporary.
    Why delete and remove something that is enjoyed and working, instead of just adding new nanos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fixietrox View Post
    hope your right and understand that the community believes anything less than the speed at which you move with 1k runspeed is too slow (I would argue thats its some around 750)
    My comfort level is 600ish in cities, missioning etc. and as much as posible when traveling (long long SL quests).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagget View Post
    The color schemes in those spreadsheets are terrible - Pink/Purple backgrounds? I am suspecting the idea is to discourage ppl from reading these things.
    I have hated that colour setup from day 1 too..
    Almost impossible to read with the -white- writing on light pink background..

    Use dark letters and a very light background colour.
    It can be done..
    Yes the alternative of dark letters and dark background (black on dark purple) does not work optimal either..

    If you need two types of letter coloring, use black and green.
    Normal formatting is: Green: new addition, Red: deleted, Black: no change.

    Again, please include a legend to the coloring, at least as a minimum, if you do not want to change the colors also..

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


    Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •