Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 205

Thread: Friday with Means - August 20th, 2010 - Enforcers + Fixers

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Well, all this is very interesting, but there seems to be way too much being changed with just PvP in mind without consideration of the other effects on PvM.

    Ao has gone from very few level locks to increasingly more over time.. which goes against the original nature of AO to my mind. I echo the previous comments about buffing low level toons with Hots/Rs for PvM.

    Bear in mind that regardless of the impression one might get from some of these forums, a large majority of AO players dont give a **** about PvP, and wont be at all pleased to find things nerfed just to give some ( attempt at ) balance to a minority for PvP.

    Take Rage as an example.... I can see, kindof, what you are trying to achieve, but because you consider it to be unbalanced for PvP, that means every other enf in PvM has to move around in treacle forever. The same applies to enf absorbs, an unneeded nerf as far as PvM is concerned...

    I understand that you have to "balance" your balancing, but I'm not sure the PvP centric focus in this process will be rewarded with anything other than disapproval by those who dont PvP.
    So balance and fun in pvm isn't something those people who don't care about pvp will want? I personally would say that a balanced pvm experience would be a far more fun experience. Having challenging encounters and having to think about using one's tools would be more fun in my mind than the meaningless grind that 98% of pvm is today.
    Better balance and numerous changes, especially nerfs, are a part of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    It's on the same retardedness level as LE nukes, and we all know how "fast" FC realized those were op'd.

    And ppl are saying others that voice their opinions about these laurel and Hardy class changes are whiners.... I hope they will be the ones on the recieving end of something equally class destroying this time

    I for one am not prepared to reroll if my toons get nerfed into nothingness. Spent too much time twinking and leveling already.
    Nerfing is required heavily in almost every area of the game. You can complain that you'll be nerfed, but the overall experience of everyone involved will be better. So what do you want most, a game where you're insanely overpowered, can kill almost anyone easily, except similarly overpowered people, or a game where things require you to think about your moves and act accordingly with the events going on, with time to think other than a few split seconds of an alpha kill, and a more varied set of possible setups. I personally would go for the latter, regardless of the fact that compared to the present, my main character will be nerfed to hell. But point is, I'm not looking at the present, but the future. And hey, even if it isn't perfect balance from the get-go, we have all this work laid out detailing the direction that things are meant to be moving in, and a willingness to change things instead of letting them sit written in stone. Meaning that we'll very likely see swift action taken following the rebalance act to properly execute the move from overpowered 3 professions online, to more of everything online.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    So balance and fun in pvm isn't something those people who don't care about pvp will want? I personally would say that a balanced pvm experience would be a far more fun experience. Having challenging encounters and having to think about using one's tools would be more fun in my mind than the meaningless grind that 98% of pvm is today.
    Better balance and numerous changes, especially nerfs, are a part of that.
    I dont find anything especially unbalanced or unfun about pvm, until high level, and even then it is entirely possible to find plenty of challenges if you dont try to make things too easy.

    What I would find unfun, would be trying to level a low level toon, with no team as there rarely are any, with the added restriction of not being able to buff them with decent HOTs/rs etc. Of course, the alt could always do something a bit easier - with sukky xp, which also isnt fun.

    Maybe if FC introduced a new "Summon Team Nano" things might be better.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    I dont find anything especially unbalanced or unfun about pvm, until high level, and even then it is entirely possible to find plenty of challenges if you dont try to make things too easy.

    What I would find unfun, would be trying to level a low level toon, with no team as there rarely are any, with the added restriction of not being able to buff them with decent HOTs/rs etc. Of course, the alt could always do something a bit easier - with sukky xp, which also isnt fun.

    Maybe if FC introduced a new "Summon Team Nano" things might be better.
    There's the lack of any desire to bring several professions in your team, at low lvls it's all about dmg dealers and healers and other things aren't really needed. At high lvls dmg is so high you don't even need healers for the most part.
    Having more interesting combat overall because of things being different and better balance between professions opening up new avenues to lvl for everyone instead of sitting on lfg going "lvl 160 engie lfg" because noone wants you and your gimp pet on their team...
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  4. #164
    What I would find unfun, would be trying to level a low level toon, with no team as there rarely are any, with the added restriction of not being able to buff them with decent HOTs/rs etc. Of course, the alt could always do something a bit easier - with sukky xp, which also isnt fun.
    Maybe having less overpowered chars results in more teaming.


    Interesting link by Richard Bartle

    Especially the part about:
    When a virtual world changes (as it must), all but its most experienced players will consider the change on its short-term merits only. They look at how the change affects them, personally, right now. They will only make mention of possible long-term effects to help buttress a short-termist argument. They don't care that things will be majorly better for them later if things are minorly worse for them today - it's only the now that matters.
    [...]
    This short-termist attitude has two outcomes. Firstly, something short-term good but long-term bad is hard for developers to remove, because players are mainly in favor of it. Secondly, something short-term bad but long-term good is hard to keep because players are mainly not in favor of it.
    [...]
    Design that is short-term good but long-term bad I call "poor". Virtual worlds are primarily a mixture of good and poor design, because the other two possibilities (outright bad and short-term bad, long-term good) either aren't implemented or are swiftly removed. Good design keeps players; poor design drives them away (when the short term becomes the long term and the game becomes unfun).
    So, yeah, if it takes some nerfs I'm willing to take them.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

  5. #165
    its not about crying "dont nerf me" as some of you try to illustrate it, its about the end result of the reballance, ofc we so far didnt even get half of the "big picture", but from what we already were shown it doesnt look that optimistic ( not saying i dislike all proposed changes, in fact i like many if not most, but some are just beyond ridiculous )


    still hoping to see a confirmation that 50% NR check on Program Override was just a TYPO
    The most obvious MB on Rubi-Ka
    Insane666 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Soldier Insanity669 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage Doc Insanity699 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage MP
    Insanity696 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Bureaucrat Insane669 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Fixer Insanity666 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage NT

    Insane699 ( 164/22 ) Solitus Trader Insane969 ( 150/20 ) S10 Trox Smurf


    Omni-Tek
    Hells Hero for a decade, now a Punk
    spreading insanity all over rk, since 2005

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    There's the lack of any desire to bring several professions in your team, at low lvls it's all about dmg dealers and healers and other things aren't really needed. At high lvls dmg is so high you don't even need healers for the most part.
    Having more interesting combat overall because of things being different and better balance between professions opening up new avenues to lvl for everyone instead of sitting on lfg going "lvl 160 engie lfg" because noone wants you and your gimp pet on their team...
    What you say is true, and it would be nice if every profession had something that made them as desirable in a team as every other, but really is that going to happen?

    Many other things besides this balancing act would need to be changed before max dps team was no longer the fastest xp/sk team. If you attempt to achieve that by nerfing professions you drive people away.

    It isnt easy to find a leveling team on my doc, but does that mean I want my enf to be incapable of functioning without a doc? There are times for soloing and there are times for small teams of 2 or 3.

    Either way with regard to the Fixer Hot etc level limits, that is a change which is purely pvp motivated which I would/will find annoying.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus View Post
    Maybe having less overpowered chars results in more teaming.
    While playing on a lowbie over the weekend there was 1 other toon in level range on lft.

    I dont disagree with your point, the problem is there isnt the population at some/most ranges.

    If the solution is to make it harder to level without a team and there's nobody to team, all you did was make things worse.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Well, all this is very interesting, but there seems to be way too much being changed with just PvP in mind without consideration of the other effects on PvM.

    Ao has gone from very few level locks to increasingly more over time.. which goes against the original nature of AO to my mind. I echo the previous comments about buffing low level toons with Hots/Rs for PvM.

    Bear in mind that regardless of the impression one might get from some of these forums, a large majority of AO players dont give a **** about PvP, and wont be at all pleased to find things nerfed just to give some ( attempt at ) balance to a minority for PvP.

    Take Rage as an example.... I can see, kindof, what you are trying to achieve, but because you consider it to be unbalanced for PvP, that means every other enf in PvM has to move around in treacle forever. The same applies to enf absorbs, an unneeded nerf as far as PvM is concerned...

    I understand that you have to "balance" your balancing, but I'm not sure the PvP centric focus in this process will be rewarded with anything other than disapproval by those who dont PvP.
    Actually the Anarchy of this game brought me in:
    High lvls able to visit the newvcommer area, help out with buffs outside of the subway etc.

    A high lvl player can help a lower one, the requirement: NCU.
    NCU is the RAM of tomorrow, the more you have, teh more programs you can have running.

    A great game mechanic.

    A re-balancing of AO would mean re-adjusting either the CL costs for NCU or the NCU cost for nanos.

    Adding lvl-locks to nanos and restricting the Fixer summonings to only be of the casters lvl, will not be a balancing act, but a change away from AO and that which was good.

    A challenge is good, and getting NCU on your low lvl toons is a challenge.
    When I introduce newcommers to the mechanic of NCU they rejoice too; cool that they have to prioritice, make a choice.
    With limited NCU you have to make a choice; what to sacrifice.

    Most professions can have all there nanos PLUS outside buffs in there viral, infused NCU. No Choice on what to sacrifice.
    Just have to lvl and be like everyone else of your lvl.

    Ask the Engineers and Docs if they like the lvl locked nanos..
    ..they do not, because they might have teh nano-skills, but an artificial lock keeps them from using them.


    My view of balance would be:
    Get rid of the skill caps, so you can min-max by eg. spend all your IP in nanoskills, but have no health.
    It leaves a choice and it is up to the player to do good.

    The current TL caps in skills makes people spread out there points, which will be removed in this way of balancing, but a full IPR could be given at each new TL.
    At least for me the full IPR enabled me to first fix my toon and later experiment (as we have been promised a full IPR later, so it can be fixed).

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


    Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  9. #169
    btw, why you need a fixer in team or as a backup when you can log ur froob TL6 fixer to buff u long hot for 4 hours.

    DrHNQ @ TL4. good now I dont really need a doc and I dont need a fixer to hot me too for 4 hours.
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta
    So balance and fun in pvm isn't something those people who don't care about pvp will want? I personally would say that a balanced pvm experience would be a far more fun experience. Having challenging encounters and having to think about using one's tools would be more fun in my mind than the meaningless grind that 98% of pvm is today.
    Allow me to contradict you. There will be nothing challenging and fun, just same grind, more tedious.

  11. #171
    Hi, this is a bit late, but could the devs consider one simple nano for fixers please? It's a nano that doesn't do anything but lasts exactly 6 hours. Either that, or display the time remaining on Grid Armor, whichever is easier to do. Or possibly a mission with a 6 hour timer that's automatically started when you cast GA.....

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by drops View Post
    Allow me to contradict you. There will be nothing challenging and fun, just same grind, more tedious.
    This is because you've seen it all and been there, done that. Mechanics won't help there except by enabling you to skip / speed up what you've already done on lots of toons.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Well, all this is very interesting, but there seems to be way too much being changed with just PvP in mind without consideration of the other effects on PvM.

    Ao has gone from very few level locks to increasingly more over time.. which goes against the original nature of AO to my mind. I echo the previous comments about buffing low level toons with Hots/Rs for PvM.

    Bear in mind that regardless of the impression one might get from some of these forums, a large majority of AO players dont give a **** about PvP, and wont be at all pleased to find things nerfed just to give some ( attempt at ) balance to a minority for PvP.

    Take Rage as an example.... I can see, kindof, what you are trying to achieve, but because you consider it to be unbalanced for PvP, that means every other enf in PvM has to move around in treacle forever. The same applies to enf absorbs, an unneeded nerf as far as PvM is concerned...

    I understand that you have to "balance" your balancing, but I'm not sure the PvP centric focus in this process will be rewarded with anything other than disapproval by those who dont PvP.
    AO Team: Read all of this. Then read it again.
    Believe nothing, no matter where you read, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
    -Buddha

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Bear in mind that regardless of the impression one might get from some of these forums, a large majority of AO players dont give a **** about PvP, and wont be at all pleased to find things nerfed just to give some ( attempt at ) balance to a minority for PvP.
    Which is why I've said different times that the devs need to try to talk to as many actual players as possible in not just the forums but other places as well. In game, log-in window polls, in game polls through the interactive billboards and other options exist to do that. Some of the people barking orders as to what they want over the years have even been those that aren't playing as they got tired of some aspect of AO but still come around to tell us what they think on the forums. The focus on what the loud minority on the forums wants is what gave us stuff like BSs that fell flat at launch as the silent majority weren't interested.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus View Post
    Richard Bertle Quote...
    Good thing then that most of the player base, except the more/most experienced players, don't post much here on the forums. otherwise you would see a lot of short term viewpoints about the changes.

    the question is, why do people play this game for years on end, and what drives them to do so? I think one of the reasons, is that ao allows people to plan long term, and have long term goals in mind for their toons. ao currently has so much replayability, and possibilities to twink to a level unrivaled by any other game. there is no set path to follow. this is one of the main things that sets ao apart from other mmo's. I've played many other mmo's, and very quickly became tired of being forced along a singular path, where i could only use this weapon, or i could only use this spell/ability at the current level. this in turn makes pvp outcomes rock paper scissor because everyone is by default average or slightly above average, and this is quite frankly, "boring".

    I don't think ao is necessarily following this model with the rebalancing changes, but it appears to be taking a rather large step in that direction. And for those that are saying, "this will make the game more enjoyable for everyone", you don't speak for everyone, and neither do I, end of story.
    wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?

    I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.

  16. #176
    with how easy in current state pvm in ao is ( at least 99% of it ), will it really be a bad change, even if we all gonna end up nerfed after the reballance from current perspective?

    another thing, the inballance in pvp right now might be discouraging part of those who otherwise would take part in and enjoy ao pvp
    The most obvious MB on Rubi-Ka
    Insane666 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Soldier Insanity669 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage Doc Insanity699 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage MP
    Insanity696 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Bureaucrat Insane669 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Fixer Insanity666 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage NT

    Insane699 ( 164/22 ) Solitus Trader Insane969 ( 150/20 ) S10 Trox Smurf


    Omni-Tek
    Hells Hero for a decade, now a Punk
    spreading insanity all over rk, since 2005

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Which is why I've said different times that the devs need to try to talk to as many actual players as possible in not just the forums but other places as well. In game, log-in window polls, in game polls through the interactive billboards and other options exist to do that. Some of the people barking orders as to what they want over the years have even been those that aren't playing as they got tired of some aspect of AO but still come around to tell us what they think on the forums. The focus on what the loud minority on the forums wants is what gave us stuff like BSs that fell flat at launch as the silent majority weren't interested.
    this is true, a few forum trolls does not a game make.

    FC just admit LE screwed up any game balance there was,
    widespread nerfs will ruin anything for people that spent years on their toons playing.
    lots people that have lots of time and effort in multiple accounts over the years will end up just leaving for another game.
    as it will feel like you just wasted all that time and insane amounts of grinding and farming for a toon YOU say they cant play like they planned.
    gee, more grinding and farming and rerolling :/ no thanks
    what if the hokey pokey?...is what its all about
    I AM BORED!!!!
    Capnsfix, Capncaveman, Denamari, Monkeylips, and boatloads of others
    Insanity inc. still waiting on our in game strait jacket

  18. #178
    People who doesn't want changes in PvM either have enf, sol, doc or crat, so they don't want to loose their sweet spot in all raids. God forbid some MP, trader or NT will be wanted in PvM, just blame PvPers because they stole selected OPed profs megapowers.
    i R not spik engrish

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by SSK
    God forbid some MP, trader or NT will be wanted in PvM, just blame PvPers because they stole selected OPed profs megapowers.
    Don't you think the PVP abilities of the traders will get "balanced", with huge repercussions on their already appalling PVM performance, and all that because "waaaaaaaah my 2 billion twink got pwned by a trader, neeeeeeeeeeeerf" ?

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Capncaveman View Post
    this is true, a few forum trolls does not a game make.

    FC just admit LE screwed up any game balance there was,
    widespread nerfs will ruin anything for people that spent years on their toons playing.
    lots people that have lots of time and effort in multiple accounts over the years will end up just leaving for another game.
    as it will feel like you just wasted all that time and insane amounts of grinding and farming for a toon YOU say they cant play like they planned.
    gee, more grinding and farming and rerolling :/ no thanks

    imo, the best thing LE brougth along, was the fact that after its release several proffesions that were lolworthy in pvp brefore, could now pvp and be more or less competitive, even tho it gave us new imbalances pvp wise

    with the exception of enfs and shades being screwed over for a few months or maybe the first year, there wasnt and isnt no prof no more that cant pvp
    The most obvious MB on Rubi-Ka
    Insane666 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Soldier Insanity669 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage Doc Insanity699 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage MP
    Insanity696 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Bureaucrat Insane669 ( 220/30/70 ) Solitus Fixer Insanity666 ( 220/30/70 ) NanoMage NT

    Insane699 ( 164/22 ) Solitus Trader Insane969 ( 150/20 ) S10 Trox Smurf


    Omni-Tek
    Hells Hero for a decade, now a Punk
    spreading insanity all over rk, since 2005

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •