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Thread: Um k let's fail

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Keex View Post
    with death grip coming ingame for keepers, maybe enforcers will get charge
    That would be fitting for the enfs to jump right at the target and stun on landing, it can't really get more 'in your face' then that.

    I just hope there will be a creative way for enfs to keep people in range and justify being a tank. Hit and runs is more a gameplay expected from shades.

    Edit: I also think weapons lines should be locked from the main hand weapon only. I know that difference between two handed, one handed, multi one handeds, multi multi one handeds from different lines should be more stable. (ofc make one handed perk lines better then)
    Last edited by boltgun; Aug 26th, 2010 at 13:34:41.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    I have said it several times.
    If enforcers alpha power gets nerfed this heavy, we NEED to get something to compensate for it.
    Wrong, your alpha is getting nerfed. But on par other professions are getting their healing / surviavbility nerfed... So your alpha is still really powerful...

    Stop Whine now.

  3. #123
    Enfo Runspeed: Ok the enfo's in this thread are right, melee (this isn't just an enfo problem) Need a way to keep ranged profs from kiting. However I haven't seen a good reason other then "melee sucks" for enfo's to have great runspeed. But having the ability to to catch people shouldn't also give enfo's the ability to run away from other professions. Really who see's enfo's role as escape and evade?

    Leaping at somebody for an enfo just doesn't seem right either. Sounds more like something MA's or shades should have. How about enfo's get some kind of short term snare or root, call it "10 foot reach" or "long arm of the colossus" or "where do you think your going" that seems more "enfo" like to me, what do you think?

    Abosorbs: I have no idea why these got a lockout put on, could somebody clue me in. I mean there were some things enfo's shouldn't have had yes but if there was 2 things I felt enfo's should keep it was damage mitigation and nano resist. They greatly define an enfo and fit the profession to a T. Why are we nerfing this? Why aren't we taking the shade like alpha from enfo and the runspeed and giving them MORE damage mitigation?

    Hp: I'm seeing some mixed views on enfo hp in pvp. On the one hand it was a help against perks and regular hits, on the other fixers/agents/soldiers could tear an enfo up even easier since 10k fa/as made enfo's healing useless. I haven't seen a enfo consensus on this issue one of you guys want to fill me in on how this will effect you guys, good or bad?

    Perks: This had to change and I think everybody knew it. What I'm hoping and I think some people in this thread have forgetten is FC has already said they will bring melee special attacks more in line with ranged special attacks. If the details have been released I haven't seen it but I don't think enfo's will need the shade like perks after the change. Other changes should make insta kill alpha's less a central part of pvp. Combined with the healing nerf enfo's may very well end up fine in this department even with a nerf to 1hb/1he or 1hb/peircing nerf.
    Hazed Hematuria 220/30 Solitus Shade

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    differente points debated below
    Short term CC : if you read the documents acurately you'll see we get a short snare (upto -2K for 5 sec) into PVP fear line wich i think is all legitimate and goes into a snare/root shortenement direction of rebalance so far.

    RS/HP : i totally agree on enfos as tank, not gank & evaderun like shades. on the other hand essence RS debuffs are now removed, so rage RS nerf isn't that drastic neither ... that let PVP enfos choose between unremovable big HPs or lower HP & dmg taken (more variety !).

    Absorbs : only the team emergency will have long cooldown (i think 10 & 20 min). if you talk about regular absorbs, these are getting 15 sec cooldown but very short attack+recharge times in exchange. e.g. : SF goes from 11.7 to 5.5 sec wich seems acceptable with the rest of toolset.

    Perks : nothing to add you what you said, that's what FC announced & i'm glad they do it so.


    Conclusion : enfo seem to go into general RS/alpha balancing, with over all other profession but more reasonnable HPs, and keeping their essential capacities of tanking in a more dynamic way (e.g. cooldowns instead of long att/rech), opponent "blackhole" tactics (fear+snare & taking aggro in PVP too), without forgetting new team options (less nano used to buff team, emergency absorb).
    As for fixer's changes i think FC did good work so far. Can't wait to discover next profession's changes.
    Last edited by bitnykk; Aug 26th, 2010 at 16:28:35. Reason: conclusion
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    Enfo Runspeed: Ok the enfo's in this thread are right, melee (this isn't just an enfo problem) Need a way to keep ranged profs from kiting. However I haven't seen a good reason other then "melee sucks" for enfo's to have great runspeed. But having the ability to to catch people shouldn't also give enfo's the ability to run away from other professions. Really who see's enfo's role as escape and evade?
    ur correct there hema... enforcers shouldnt be escape artists.
    but when enforcers arnt edcape artists the survivability vs top geared players is just crappy with a few exceptions.
    ur are getting to that point aswell tho later in ur post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    Leaping at somebody for an enfo just doesn't seem right either. Sounds more like something MA's or shades should have. How about enfo's get some kind of short term snare or root, call it "10 foot reach" or "long arm of the colossus" or "where do you think your going" that seems more "enfo" like to me, what do you think?
    Well tbh a tracktor beam like ability like keepers are getting seemed to me as an enforcer like ability.
    Or giving us a short time snare and let our melee attacks Daze our targets to make them run slower for example.
    FC has said that they have a uniqe solution thought out for us tho if the coding will support it so i guess we will have to wait for the release notes on that one.
    On the other hand i dont see why a leap/charge ability wouldnt be possible within the current coding if they can make the keepers traktor beam skill work so i doubt its a leap skill they have planned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    Abosorbs: I have no idea why these got a lockout put on, could somebody clue me in. I mean there were some things enfo's shouldn't have had yes but if there was 2 things I felt enfo's should keep it was damage mitigation and nano resist. They greatly define an enfo and fit the profession to a T. Why are we nerfing this? Why aren't we taking the shade like alpha from enfo and the runspeed and giving them MORE damage mitigation?
    Completly agree with u Hematuria and i have said the same thing on several places over this forum.
    Enforcers are a tank class, even THE main tank class so the dmg mitigation should be superior to the rest of the classes in AO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    Hp: I'm seeing some mixed views on enfo hp in pvp. On the one hand it was a help against perks and regular hits, on the other fixers/agents/soldiers could tear an enfo up even easier since 10k fa/as made enfo's healing useless. I haven't seen a enfo consensus on this issue one of you guys want to fill me in on how this will effect you guys, good or bad?
    Well there are mixed weivs on how this will work according to people posting on the forums.
    Some think that AS and FAs will be less reliable etc etc etc.
    i think they will be just as reliable as they are atm with the exception of that AS might get interruptable by melee attacks.
    Myself i cant recall if the interruption was made as a sugesstion by players or if it was said to become that way from FC.
    I know i posted a while ago that i thought FA shuold have an excecution time and that it should be interuptable by melee attacks to more resemble an FA in real life.
    Emptying a clip of bullets takes a couple of seconds and getting hit at the same time defenately would decrease ur aim.
    Well i didnt want ti to be interruptable i wanted it to get a slightly shorter duration on every hit with the consequence of less dmg from the FA not completly interrupted.

    Anyhow i got way off topic there, so about max health.
    I dont realy see more HP being any real benefit at all except decrease our healing/HP rating even worse seing that enfs dont have enough def to actually get the top geared professions to not cap specials even with the extra HP.
    The only change we will see is that specials will hit us for 13k instead of 10k in pvp after the changes.
    It might increase our survivability a bit against professions like docs that generaly has very low dmg to us already, shades that relies on perks to kill us and MAs that relies on heavy hitting crits in PvP to kill us since none of those actually caps our HP atm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hematuria View Post
    Perks: This had to change and I think everybody knew it. What I'm hoping and I think some people in this thread have forgetten is FC has already said they will bring melee special attacks more in line with ranged special attacks. If the details have been released I haven't seen it but I don't think enfo's will need the shade like perks after the change. Other changes should make insta kill alpha's less a central part of pvp. Combined with the healing nerf enfo's may very well end up fine in this department even with a nerf to 1hb/1he or 1hb/peircing nerf.
    Hmm are u sure u have seen FC say that they will bring melee specials more in line with the ranged specials?
    Or is it just speculations u have heard from players?
    I can agree that enforcers 1he/1hb alpha is very powerfull and that it doesnt realy fit the enforcers profession role as main tanks.
    The problem with nerfing the alpha tho is that enforcers doesnt have the survivability to stand aruond and fight and not the sustained dmg to stay and fight as it stands today.
    There just isnt any reason to stick around and fight between alphas as an enf
    Not enough survivability unless were running away and no sustained dmg to make it worth staying.
    If FC however is bringing SA down to a 11 sec recharge, upgrading brawl to do similar dmg as burst tho there would be a reason to stick around and fight cause the sustained DPS during a minute would actually be good then.
    The problem i can see with this tho is enforcers dealing about same dmg as fixers, advs, soldiers, etc in PvM and far more then for example traders.

    Well if u what u say about the melee specials is correct then the situation for enfs loosing their alphas isnt so dire as i had previously thought but i must have missed that info somewhere.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post


    Well tbh a tracktor beam like ability like keepers are getting seemed to me as an enforcer like ability.
    Or giving us a short time snare and let our melee attacks Daze our targets to make them run slower for example.
    FC has said that they have a uniqe solution thought out for us tho if the coding will support it so i guess we will have to wait for the release notes on that one.
    On the other hand i dont see why a leap/charge ability wouldnt be possible within the current coding if they can make the keepers traktor beam skill work so i doubt its a leap skill they have planned out.
    That would be fantastic, Give shades and ma a leap to target ability and keepers and enfo's a grab them by the scruff of the neck ability. The details would need alot of testing, how long and in what way should it hold a person, how often could these things be used etc etc. I can only comment on the style i'd like it to take and an enfo grabbing a fleeing soldier by the scruff of the neck or an ma leaping foward and kicking a fleeing doc in the back just fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    Completly agree with u Hematuria and i have said the same thing on several places over this forum.
    Enforcers are a tank class, even THE main tank class so the dmg mitigation should be superior to the rest of the classes in AO.
    The only problem I see with maken enfo the best at damage mitigation is...were does that leave engi? That being said I'd rather engi roll shift to less damage mitigation and more towards bots and tools to mess with people similar to mines and remod.

    If the engi's have something other then "king of mitigation" then by all means let enfo's take up the crown, please. If they're to both share the crown or be close, well special attack is to prof defining for engi to give to enfo but something like a perk blocking version would be great. Upping shields and improving absorbs over nerfing them seemed to me to be a no brainer way to take enfo's. It just maks a enfo...well like an enfo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    Well there are mixed weivs on how this will work according to people posting on the forums.
    Some think that AS and FAs will be less reliable etc etc etc.
    i think they will be just as reliable as they are atm with the exception of that AS might get interruptable by melee attacks.
    Myself i cant recall if the interruption was made as a sugesstion by players or if it was said to become that way from FC.
    I know i posted a while ago that i thought FA shuold have an excecution time and that it should be interuptable by melee attacks to more resemble an FA in real life.
    Emptying a clip of bullets takes a couple of seconds and getting hit at the same time defenately would decrease ur aim.
    Well i didnt want ti to be interruptable i wanted it to get a slightly shorter duration on every hit with the consequence of less dmg from the FA not completly interrupted.

    Anyhow i got way off topic there, so about max health.
    I dont realy see more HP being any real benefit at all except decrease our healing/HP rating even worse seing that enfs dont have enough def to actually get the top geared professions to not cap specials even with the extra HP.
    The only change we will see is that specials will hit us for 13k instead of 10k in pvp after the changes.
    It might increase our survivability a bit against professions like docs that generaly has very low dmg to us already, shades that relies on perks to kill us and MAs that relies on heavy hitting crits in PvP to kill us since none of those actually caps our HP atm.
    There is a lot going on here so I wasn't sure if I should step in on this one. You could start a whole thread just on hp in pvp and what effect it has.

    IF things are made balanced by all this, and you see more profession diversity in pvp I think it will become more of an asset then it is now. Thats one giant IF though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    Hmm are u sure u have seen FC say that they will bring melee specials more in line with the ranged specials?
    Or is it just speculations u have heard from players?
    I can agree that enforcers 1he/1hb alpha is very powerfull and that it doesnt realy fit the enforcers profession role as main tanks.
    The problem with nerfing the alpha tho is that enforcers doesnt have the survivability to stand aruond and fight and not the sustained dmg to stay and fight as it stands today.
    There just isnt any reason to stick around and fight between alphas as an enf
    Not enough survivability unless were running away and no sustained dmg to make it worth staying.
    If FC however is bringing SA down to a 11 sec recharge, upgrading brawl to do similar dmg as burst tho there would be a reason to stick around and fight cause the sustained DPS during a minute would actually be good then.
    The problem i can see with this tho is enforcers dealing about same dmg as fixers, advs, soldiers, etc in PvM and far more then for example traders.

    Well if u what u say about the melee specials is correct then the situation for enfs loosing their alphas isnt so dire as i had previously thought but i must have missed that info somewhere.
    If I remember right sa wouldn't go to 11 sec but more like 20-25, I don't remember details being posted about the rest of melee specials, it was all "we're goin in this direction but no idea were the buss stops".
    I'm trying to find the post on it, sadly search is useless since everybody abreviates and doing a serch for SA or FA....well you can imagine lol. Or a dev could poke his head in and save me a few 100 hours reading old posts? Anybody? Anybody? Please?....*sigh* i'll try to find it.
    Hazed Hematuria 220/30 Solitus Shade

  7. #127
    Yeah... nerf enfs but leave ranged advies alone, ja?

    :/
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic1 View Post
    the thing with twink pvp. ppl know what's good at what range. There will nvr be a day when all profs are good all ranges. Kinda retarded to expect that. Why not leave it the same....
    Signed!
    RK1



    220/30 Soldier, 220/22 Shade, 170/24 Agent, 150/14 NT, 150/14 Adv, 150/19 Keeper, 150/20 Crat, 165/21 Fixer, 150/20 MA, 150/18 Doc, 100/10 MP, 150/11 Trader
    60/06 Enfo, 60/06 Engi, 60/06 Fixer

  9. #129
    it's not the first time someone has spent billions trusting the current mechanic settings, just like how in 2007 people spent billions on weapons that does as / fa or sa and combined commando pieces only to see the nerf ahead of us and they'll need to change their arsenal and gameplay.......life goes on.
    Unlimited "Millerna" Rifleworks (220 / 30 / 70) Agent

  10. #130
    1. Lowbie Enfs needed that runspeed nerf. Speaking from a non-healer POV - which most of my twinks are/were - even just standing still and tanking regular hits is too much from a well-twinked enf. Let alone the HUGE AR on the perks they have, or brawl/fa/sa.

    2. TL7 enfs, especially those with perks in both 1hb AND 1he. Learn your profession. Don't complain that you're not alphaing healers if you don't have the slightest clue what you're doing.

    I'll have a hint for you especially Moonbolt, seeing how I can pretty much ignore your sorry alpha. The key to alphaing healers is not "MOAR DAMAGE", it is "MOAR DEBUFFS". Make a perk setup to accommodate that, and I promise you that it'll be a lot easier to kill those Doctors/Agents/whatevers. Especially Groin Kick is a must, and if that proves to be insufficient maybe you should consider perking Followup Smash too. And fear the healer mid-alpha to guarantee interrupting their casting.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by ookamitr View Post
    it's not the first time someone has spent billions trusting the current mechanic settings, just like how in 2007 people spent billions on weapons that does as / fa or sa and combined commando pieces only to see the nerf ahead of us and they'll need to change their arsenal and gameplay.......life goes on.
    Shhh! It took very skilled people to build those twinks...we don't want the people who bought their twinks on Ebay to think they didn't get the player skills they paid for, right?

  12. #132
    When I saw rs getting nerfed on rage I was saddened, but then by seeing the removal of the snare on sl/db essences, I personally like it. (me = pvm'er)
    Even though it never made sense to me that I was the fastest around my lvl range, it always made me laugh and made me love it.
    Everyone's rs should be the same(ish) besides for fixers, but that's just my point of view.
    Tikay : : : : : 220-30-70 Trox Enf[E]
    Misstikay : :: 220-16-65 Soli Soldier
    Nanotikay : : 180-08-38 Soli NT
    Lykos : : : : :170-22-42 Opi Advy[E]
    Tikay150 : : :150-13-42 Opi Fix
    Sneakyitikay :132-00-13 Opi Shade
    Metatikay : ::126-08-24 Soli MP
    Engitikay : : :100-10-28 Nano Engi

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