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Thread: ALL Melee Users Need To Catch Up To Their Target

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    How long is ur arm? How long is ur sword? That is ur range.
    You really don't want to base things on real life or common sense in an MMO, because oh how so many profs could be so screwed over.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    This is the biggest QFT of the year. Gzz gatester......
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    I'm gunna vote this for best rant of the year, and second best QFT...
    I don't know which is more amusing.. the fact the two of you are repeating the same nonsense over and over in every thread, or the fact you can't two pages without giving eachother a reacharound.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    How long is ur arm? How long is ur sword? That is ur range.
    How much does it wind (meter/sec)? how much there is fog and rain? How unexpected moves your target is doing? How much practice you have had with long distance aiming? How much recoil does your weapon produce? What kind of reflexes do you have? How good posture you have when aiming?

    Do you really wanna go there?
    /Jekonam | 220 ma
    /Jekoslap | 220 crat
    /Jekoblack | 220 sold
    /Jekoblastah | 164 trader
    /Jekolandsubt | 158 doc
    /Jeko | 150 fixer
    /Jekonuke | 150 nt

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I forgot! Melee professions can interrupt insta cast nanos. They are also given a +400 Sneak Attack scope with +9% crit chance that also increases melee range to 20 meters and is useable at level 1.

    And someone totally said MA crits are not halved in pvp, so it must be true despite the complete lack of testing which no one needs in order to verify anything, obviously. Crit resistance does not apply to MA fists too, or so someone said once on teh forums.
    Yes, all nanos are instacast, no melee profession has any tools that affect nano init negatively and definitely not stuns to help increase the window since nano init is nerfed already, all ranged professions use aimed shot and there is no drawbacks to using a crit scope and definitely not any other items you might lose out on when using that.

    And MA unarmed crit rate not being halved in PvP is just a forum legend, which has not been announced or even tested by anyone. Plus everyone runs around with a full deck of Spirit Infused Yuttos mems these days in addition to the fantabulous OFAB pieces that give crit resist, with these even the mighty MA crit rate is reduced to uselessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    How long is ur arm? How long is ur sword? That is ur range.
    Unless you have a scope on which magically attaches a rubber band to your sword grip, increasing range by 40%. Oh and symbiants that enable flex in the hand itself.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Doniger View Post
    Ma/Enfs sure do craptastic damage to crats? indeed


    MAs/Shades have really low evades/defenses? ha


    Again laughable since if the Doc goes MA, I can use the same argument against ranged. Ranged have much more healing than a MA doc? sure

    But Ill give another; Soldiers/Engies/Crats/Traders/Fixers have much more healing than a MA/Enf/Adv/Keeper? sure


    Enfs have much more effective HP than a engie period.


    Just as all melee seems to conveniently forget about their own CC immunities and cc removale tools.

    See how I conveniently used only the profs to state my point just like you did? How I just happened to not compare the professions that are exceptions? Funny how that works when you just choose to ignore it.

    OK ok ok I was gonna read everything before actually posting, but now I have got to speak out...
    First MA/enf vs crat is COMPLETELY uncomparable, MA's has less NR (abit more resist) but if you don't perk SD (which makes u lose some of ur greatest offense) you have only 15 % Root resist or so...

    MA bases the damage mainly from Aimed shot/sneak and white hits... We cannot crit crats because they run with at LEAST 80% decrit. So we will do normals only... The crat will take about 5 seconds to debuff an MA to the point where he can BARLEY heal and not do ANY damage with his normal hits... For an MA though, crat pets / aimed shot and nukes WILL kill him within 20 seconds after debuffs are landed... AS from an MA is very unreliable, not to say sneak attack is even more unreliable.. so he'll only cap if he's lucky, and in any case that's not enough to kill a crat that fast... Crats will have insane amounts of defense while dodge the blame is up and ES.... so the first minute and a half almost of the fight the MA wouldn't even land 1 normal attack even it not debuffed.... And in ANY case I strongly doubt a MA can stay alive for over 40-50 seconds against a crat... Debuffed, our healing is just completely disabled.. takes 20+ seconds to cast...

    Now compare MA to the other evade professions at their current state... In a pretty defensive setup MA has less evades than Fixer, shield MP, Ranged advy in normal setup, Melee advy in pure defensive setup, less than shades in a mixed setup, and less than crats... Crat static VS MA static+limber - Crat has more def.... Keepers has about the same as MA defense in the same kind of def setup, abit under in duck and dodge but evade clsc is on par, if not greater.
    So yet again, you have proven your ignorance and incompetence.

    Ok and if you do the math, you'd find that HP per second from a soldier greatly outnumbers MA healing. Traders don't need the same healing due to their destructive toolset, they can use nano shield then just use the time to debuff you then hit HHAB ring for 100% nano pool refill and stay alive long enough to debuff you down to TL 5 AR. Engineers has coon/blockers and bio healing perks, and at their current state NOTHING lives long enough against them to kill them 1v1 through their healing if solitus then it's even more improved. (also access to Kung Fu master) healing for 2-3k.. (abit shady though since they have to de-equip weps)..

    If you take into account that an engi can aimed shot an enf for 9-10k reliably, and the enf will most likely never land a special attack on an engi, NO that's again incorrect if you count the tools (Reflects and blockers) Engi's actually have more effective hp(wrong to calculate like this, but you started it)...

    CC immunities and CC removal tools, why don't you go on and note down the immunities' how long they last, and the removals and how long the recharge of all those are. And then explain to me how melee can kill a range between all those... If what you said was indeed true that would mean ranged had ZERO defenses... But case is ranged has defensive abilities, and they can just counter our "immunities" with that... And after that it's gglol..

    See how I just totally demolished every bit of your post, that you thought you so cleverly put together? Funny how every single statement in that post was incorrect in one way or another...


    ON ANOTHER NOTE --

    In my humble opinion, the difficulties of kiting versus the difficulties of the chase is not alligned... That is the main issue, it's very very easy to kite and it's hard to follow the kiter and sometimes just jumping back and forth between to objects while spamming O is more than enough to make it almost impossible for a melee to do much to the ranged prof..

    Melee needs something as stated before to close the gap, and to stay there for alittle bit..

    I feel that some of you ranged guys speak as if you have zero defense, in which case is completely false... If it was the fact that a melee prof IF caught up with you would without doubt make a applepie out of your face at first contact then I would agree, melee has too much damage to be in a position to ask for a gap-closer, but thats NOT the case... Tell me what melee profession that 100% kills you everything they reach you? And I'll tell you what YOU'RE doing wrong if you can't avoid that... : )

    all love
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekonam View Post
    How much does it wind (meter/sec)? how much there is fog and rain? How unexpected moves your target is doing? How much practice you have had with long distance aiming? How much recoil does your weapon produce? What kind of reflexes do you have? How good posture you have when aiming?

    Do you really wanna go there?
    Sure, Ill go there. After all, thats wat I do FOR A LIVING.

    edit: Btw, 40 meters? Chump shot. I can do that with a pistol.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by borriss View Post
    Melee needs something as stated before to close the gap, and to stay there for alittle bit...
    ...and it was confirmed numerous times that they are going to get it and some of those things are already in game (fears) plus, parry/riposte will be totally reworked into something useful, so...
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by borriss View Post
    snipperdesnap
    Bull****. If I start off a duel versus a MA by casting all my debuffs it means I'm standing still, considering they're not all instacast. That means I get splatted by a MA that knows how to hotswap.
    Further more, kiting an MA is really a bit pointless on a crat. Sure, I can just spam AS, but that won't kill a MA. And when kiting, the MA chases me, my pets chase him and won't be much of a threat. Or would you now like to put forward that somehow you have more difficulties chasing a moving opponent than my pets?

    Not saying MAs pwn crats. They don't. But please don't pretend a crat can just stand there without a MA being able to as much as dent me. Crat vs MA duels are explosive ones, where it's just a matter of who goes splat first.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    ...and it was confirmed numerous times that they are going to get it and some of those things are already in game (fears) plus, parry/riposte will be totally reworked into something useful, so...
    You really can't count fears as what I mentioned, parry riposte will probably be some kind of mitigate damage / counterattack sort of thing.. We don't need that..

    Fear usually makes the target run straight away from u anyways so the duration of the fear is usually waste, then 4 seconds after the fear they are slowed by 1k... That's actually usually enough to almost get close enough to perk them... And this has 2 minute recharge Pretty damn useless if you ask me.
    MA fear is unessesary and almost useless, remove it please.
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by crattey View Post
    Bull****. If I start off a duel versus a MA by casting all my debuffs it means I'm standing still, considering they're not all instacast. That means I get splatted by a MA that knows how to hotswap.
    Further more, kiting an MA is really a bit pointless on a crat. Sure, I can just spam AS, but that won't kill a MA. And when kiting, the MA chases me, my pets chase him and won't be much of a threat. Or would you now like to put forward that somehow you have more difficulties chasing a moving opponent than my pets?

    Not saying MAs pwn crats. They don't. But please don't pretend a crat can just stand there without a MA being able to as much as dent me. Crat vs MA duels are explosive ones, where it's just a matter of who goes splat first.
    OK so the MA has 3 attacks that will do potentially 30 % each to you, sneak as Dimach... Ok sure, fine let's say AS and sneak both caps (which happens once every leap year)... Then you have 10% hp left, if you used the nano absordb prisoner cloak you'll have 20 % or more hp left.. with dodge the blame up we won't land ANYTHING else on you for the next 11 seconds and then it will be another AS... Then after DTB you should relly have a MA almost fully debuffed at least to the point where he can't heal well or hit regulars.. So it would be our almost never capping AS that has to finish you between ur HD and ur first aid stimming, sit downsetc.. which is highly unlikely that the MA will be alive long enough to get more than 2-3 aimed shots on a Crat
    Last edited by borriss; Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:56:02.
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  11. #91
    Er, DTB is hardly a magical 100% immunity perk. It boosts our evades to insanely high levels for a very short duration. But to claim that neither fast attack, brawl or regular attacks can land through it? If that's the way you want to go, that's fine with me. But I do believe I should point out that with dof/limber/def stance up, a MA becomes immune to our pets by your reasoning, and the crat can only touch you with a AS every 11 seconds.

    I'd say the difference between an MAs AR and a crat's def with def stance up is less than the difference between Carlo's AR and an MAs def with dof/limber or def stance up. Yet pets still manage to hit every so often. The same way a MA -will- land regular hits on a crat. Maybe not a lot, but with a crat's natural low hp versus a MAs fist damage, regulars hurt like bloody hell In fact, if, and I agree that's it certainly not a given, but if you manage to cap AS and SA, you'll more than likely take off the remaining 10% with a fast attack, brawl or regular that lands.

    p.s. capping AS on a crat is not that hard. Even though you won't crit, with your add. dmg. and capped AS skill, it's not really necessary to crit, anyway.

    That being said, there's what, one or two proper PvP MAs around at tl7 these days? Your average MA is cannon fodder to a good PvP crat.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekonam View Post
    How much does it wind (meter/sec)? how much there is fog and rain? How unexpected moves your target is doing? How much practice you have had with long distance aiming? How much recoil does your weapon produce? What kind of reflexes do you have? How good posture you have when aiming?

    Do you really wanna go there?
    Don't be silly, the point is not to imitate every possible aspect of real life combat, but some sense need to be preserved. Melee does mean melee, aka close combat.

    If melee are always in range, there is no sense left for ranged weapons to be ingame.
    If ranged are always out of melee reach, there's no point going melee.

    Several things are highly arguable imo in a sci-fi game like AO, like it would have made a lot more sense for every profession to have a degree of melee abilities and ranged abilities, differently balanced to stick to the professions' template (like in the old Cyberpunk dice and paper game where you would use ranged weapons for ranged fights and monofilament katanas/wakisahis/rippers in melee).
    Now that I think of it, a rebalancing focused on devising melee and ranged toolsets for each profession would have a been a fantastic idea.
    For the time being, it's not the direction taken by FC though, so I can't think of a way FC could offer "catch up" tools for every melee user without nerfing those who chose ranged fight style.

    PS : I see a lot of "downgrading my melee prof outrageously to get the dev's pity" in this thread. I hope it makes them laugh as much as it does to me.
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    PS : I see a lot of "downgrading my melee prof outrageously to get the dev's pity" in this thread. I hope it makes them laugh as much as it does to me.
    Yes and no.

    Yes in the sense that they've already given up on moderating this forum and allowed it to degenerate into the same kind of cesspool of stupidity as the Game Forums is.

    No in the sense that all the crying Enforcers did generated immediate results.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by crattey View Post
    Er, DTB is hardly a magical 100% immunity perk. It boosts our evades to insanely high levels for a very short duration. But to claim that neither fast attack, brawl or regular attacks can land through it? If that's the way you want to go, that's fine with me. But I do believe I should point out that with dof/limber/def stance up, a MA becomes immune to our pets by your reasoning, and the crat can only touch you with a AS every 11 seconds.

    I'd say the difference between an MAs AR and a crat's def with def stance up is less than the difference between Carlo's AR and an MAs def with dof/limber or def stance up. Yet pets still manage to hit every so often. The same way a MA -will- land regular hits on a crat. Maybe not a lot, but with a crat's natural low hp versus a MAs fist damage, regulars hurt like bloody hell In fact, if, and I agree that's it certainly not a given, but if you manage to cap AS and SA, you'll more than likely take off the remaining 10% with a fast attack, brawl or regular that lands.

    p.s. capping AS on a crat is not that hard. Even though you won't crit, with your add. dmg. and capped AS skill, it's not really necessary to crit, anyway.

    That being said, there's what, one or two proper PvP MAs around at tl7 these days? Your average MA is cannon fodder to a good PvP crat.
    Ok just to prove to you, recently in omni entertainment last Friday I think it was... I had 6550 def rating, and it just so happens to be that 2 crat pets hit me 2 normal hits and procced upon that + by the time their recharge swing timer was ready again I was dead, so never got to see if they landed their seconds hits on me too..

    HOWEVER dodge the blame is 3800 more def for 17 seconds... and if you're even half decent you'll be at 3800-3900 static def... Add those two up, and I'm quite sure we won't land no Fast attack or brawl on you (note that MA fast attack should have around 2.3-2,4k AR since it's our piercing it goes off from... And well I did some testing with a crat, he used DTB 10 times... Not once of those 10 times could I land a single hit on him during the 17 seconds it lasted But I guess that's not expected since his def ratings double + 300-600 over double my AR in a high AR setup... so yeah funny that you say what you actually do say maybe you should get DTB and try it...

    My experience at least: Crat pets hit's me hell of alot more often through ES (1k def) + dof/limber than I can hit the crat through DTB.. Sure if you only got ES up on your crat you'll see some heavy hitting 2k+ normal hits on you... But by the time DTB is out you really should have fully debuffed an MA... And just to note, you only need to put malaise on the MA to make sure he won't heal very efficient at all (6-7 seconds cast on heal after malaise) +2-3 of the tape's are quickly applied... So I actually doubt the MA will be able to heal more than once, maybe 2 times and highly unlikely 3 times in the entire fight...
    At least the crats I've fought did exactly this; ES, DTB 4800 more def.. Then debuffed me into infinity... And within 10 seconds I was completely debuffed... My physical inits at a staggering -430 and my nano inits at -1470... And well yeah as you say, if a brawl lands (not gonna count FA, since you'll have 4-5 times the evades of an MA's AR) that may take 10% hp from you... But if you first aid at once when you're hit with the aimed shot... AND if you used prisoner cloak to absorb 15% of everything you'll be at 50% by the time that brawl will be able to land... EVEN with sneak AS and dimach having been pumped into you

    MA will dent you and hurt you badly, but fact is....

    try this next time you duel a MA: Start with prisoner cloak and spamming Malaise... MOST likely you'll land it on first or second attempt...
    Start with ES And DTB up... once he aimed shots, fire off first aid and also withered flesh absorb... (due to MA's unreliable sneak AS maybe you'll shave some off a AS or Sneak).. Now after malaise do your 3 tapes, and watch as the MA just can't heal and as he targets ur pet to do Flower of life just to stay up for a few more seconds... I'm guessing you panic if the MA starts with sneak AS dimach on you, and you don't use ES DTB and prisoner cloak/withered flesh absorb... Use a 250 battle prepared after done debuffing and you'll be very safe on HP..

    Who's your toon btw? are you on RK 2 I'll test this with u, I even got towers now I'll show you what I mean.. I'm not saying it's one way or another Im just saying my experiences and the testing that we did..
    Last edited by borriss; Sep 1st, 2010 at 14:00:04.
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    PS : I see a lot of "downgrading my melee prof outrageously to get the dev's pity" in this thread. I hope it makes them laugh as much as it does to me.

    I'll let you play on my MA for a week, while playing a root/debuff profession against u in BS let's see how much fun you'll have =)

    MA is struggling in the sense that, we really can't just use a root graft then start 14 DD perks and wait for them to trigger and maybe get a kill.. If we use root graft we have to wait 4 seconds for our main burst to be available (beeing hotswap).. And with melee hits and what not... Usually if I want to kill a agent or other sort of ranged.. I pretty much need to use touch of sai fung to stun them and to debuff RS/inits.. This locks my dimach =) so now I have got to kill my target with white hits and perks (MA DD perks aren't great atm)...

    I agree that MA's are not weak.. But as I've stated before, the skill required to kite and how easy it is to do does not allign with how hard it is to gain/re-gain momentum as a melee vs ranged...
    And well it's true that we have powerful debuffs... But it's really simple to kite those 10 seconds, and maybe use a root graft or something on us...

    Actually a good agent in mimic doc, kiting our debuffs won't have any trouble beating a MA easily... I just see that myself playing on my friends Agent... Just hit motr unstunnable/unrootable and run, if MA is thinking about grafting agent after that keep free movement ready... instantly gone root... And I donno about agent's but my MA has 2.2k RS 2.3k depending abit... So not completely capped atm :<

    MA imo needs NO other love than something to pin down their opponents, because we rely so much on normal swings to do any damage at all reliably...
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  16. #96
    Carlo has ~2250 AR. The def rating you mention would be well over 4K more than his AR. Funnily enough, it's pretty much the "double +300-600" you mentioned. If he manages to hit you, common sense would suggest you can hit a crat. Again, I'd say it's about as unlikely for crat pets to land string hits on an MA as it is for an MA to land string hits on a crat. However, the occasional hit will always land.

    Btw, you do realize how unlikely it is for both pets to connect on their first hit and proc as well in the scenario you described above, right? The proc is 25%, and that's assuming both pets even hit in the first place.

    Also, more of a technicality, really; anecdotal evidence isn't exactly proof, is it now? People have been know to exaggerate a wee bit on the forums. The same discussion with Gatester would have been about how crats can dodge AS and his pets can alpha a MA in two seconds flat.
    Last edited by crattey; Sep 1st, 2010 at 13:42:05.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by crattey View Post
    Carlo has ~2250 AR. The def rating you mention would be well over 4K more than his AR. Funnily enough, it's pretty much the "double +300-600" you mentioned. If he manages to hit you, common sense would suggest you can hit a crat. Again, I'd say it's about as unlikely for crat pets to land string hits on an MA as it is for an MA to land string hits on a crat. However, the occasional hit will always land.

    Btw, you do realize how unlikely it is for both pets to connect on their first hit and proc as well in the scenario you described above, right? The proc is 25%, and that's assuming both pets even hit in the first place.

    Also, more of a technicality, really; anecdotal evidence isn't exactly proof, is it now? People have been know to exaggerate a wee bit on the forums. The same discussion with Gatester would have been about how crats can dodge AS and his pets can alpha a MA in two seconds flat.
    I want to know where you have that AR from though? 2250 AR on Carlo has to be wrong...


    I know it should be highly unlikely, but pet's really work differently.. Ask Yikinomi, Toxicmen, Soulhuntress, Ymmot2 and Harios they all watched as those two pets landed those hits and procced immediately with 6550 def... Because that happened in the pvp tourny. And yes with that reasoning I SHOULD be able to hit... But I really don't :S As I said I tested this, did you? And well you can do the math, 300 tower site with 250 evade contracts 220 MA with full alpha's and normal setup, notucom def hud mother wolf Limber dof ES / sphere up and DB 1/2 and 12m buff running.. I was at 6.5k Def, no exaggergating here..

    If you're on RK 2 I'll show you, again who's your character?
    Borris2 - 220/30 Martial Artist

    Andarsmann - 100/10 Trader

    Borris1 - 30/3 Enforcer

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by borriss View Post
    I want to know where you have that AR from though? 2250 AR on Carlo has to be wrong...
    From memory. But there should be some thread somewhere on the forum with the figures in there. Btw, one one of his weapons he has even lower AR, about 1800 AR or something CEO has roughly 2900 AR iirc.

    Keep in mind crat pets have a faster attack speed than the engi pets, which offsets the larger number of misses on some targets. (too many variables to pinpoint it, really.. but roughly: engi pets > crat pets on fixers and crat pets > engi pets on full agg docs. Somewhere inbetween it'll shift.)

    Quote Originally Posted by borriss View Post
    I know it should be highly unlikely, but pet's really work differently.. Ask Yikinomi, Toxicmen, Soulhuntress, Ymmot2 and Harios they all watched as those two pets landed those hits and procced immediately with 6550 def... Because that happened in the pvp tourny. And yes with that reasoning I SHOULD be able to hit... But I really don't :S As I said I tested this, did you? And well you can do the math, 300 tower site with 250 evade contracts 220 MA with full alpha's and normal setup, notucom def hud mother wolf Limber dof ES / sphere up and DB 1/2 and 12m buff running.. I was at 6.5k Def, no exaggergating here..

    If you're on RK 2 I'll show you, again who's your character?
    Not saying it couldn't happen, just that it's unlikely. The odds of both pets proccing is what, 8%? That's not even counting the the very real chance that neither of them even connect.

    And I believe you on your def rating. I';m in an even far better position to judge, considering I can speak for both sides, considering I play a high def pet prof. I've had pets hit me while I had DTB and stance up and I've seen pets miss on engis. It's more likely to happen the other way around, but it does and can happen.

    As for testing, I think all those duels I did versus MAs count as enough testing. Obviously I tend to remember the duels against, say, ange, better than the duels against some random shen stick hecknoob. But more often than not they managed to squeeze in a regular hit, fast attack or brawl in with their alpha. If it's paired with a capped sneak attack, the crat is pretty much dead. If the sneak attack doesn't cap and you don't get a reg hit in, whilst both crat pets connect and proc; it'll go the other way around and the MA gets splatted like a 5-year old under a garbage truck.

    p.s. account is frozen, I only forum peeveepee

  19. #99
    Ok Borriss ,I really like you because you are saving my keyboard.
    /Jekonam | 220 ma
    /Jekoslap | 220 crat
    /Jekoblack | 220 sold
    /Jekoblastah | 164 trader
    /Jekolandsubt | 158 doc
    /Jeko | 150 fixer
    /Jekonuke | 150 nt

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    Sure, Ill go there. After all, thats wat I do FOR A LIVING.
    You forgot the argument.
    /Jekonam | 220 ma
    /Jekoslap | 220 crat
    /Jekoblack | 220 sold
    /Jekoblastah | 164 trader
    /Jekolandsubt | 158 doc
    /Jeko | 150 fixer
    /Jekonuke | 150 nt

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