Thread: Friday with Means - September 3rd, 2010 - Battlestation changes

  1. #361
    so many people stating "this is going to happen" or "that is going to ruin this". in truth, you have no idea how it will effect things until it happens. the only thing i know, is that so far some (not all) pvp twinkies are upset, and that some pvp'ers (pretending to speak for pvm vp and dailie mish goers) are arguing that noone wants to do a daily/regular bs run where they get killed all the time. NEWS FLASH, that happens already to the pvm vp dailie mish goers, and yet bs is full of them, more than ever because of daily, and many stick around to get extra vp while still getting squashed, so the argument that they would stop going is not based in reality, but in fantasy, because with proposed level changes, they would be able to do their dailies at levels where bs wasn't running before. and if you're squishy, but don't like getting squashed, then team up with other people on your side and have fun.

    and yeah, I'll say it again, if you were gonna leave the game, you would just do it. if you need to use the threat of leaving (or try to convince others of the same) to convince the devs to change something, than obviously you must believe that your argument isn't convincing enough by itself to have an impact. calling me a forum fascist for saying this is your opinion, nothing more. and what i say is my opinion. consider it as just that and don't have a cow about it.
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  2. #362
    The suggested ranges will be very "top-heavy".
    So far no one have successfully argued against that.
    Ending range at a new title level or with new perks is not wise.

    Due to S10, Tower Wars and TL5 BS, most people have some sort of TL4-TL5 toon.
    Check auno.org and see for yourself! Many of these never go to BS due to 165-174 dominance.

    I am certain BS at 140-164 and 165-189 will see lots of action.

    There's mainly two reason people go to BS:
    1. to have fun PvP'ing.
    2. to farm VP

    PvP won't be fun when you get chain-killed, and if getting VP for OFAB takes weeks,
    people will farm pearls and buy AI armor instead. (Or buy from cred farmers...)

    Ranges should be narrowed, grouping together toons with similar, equal opportunities.

    So far, no one has convinced me that the suggested ranges will bring more (new) people to BS.
    Last edited by Luziciona; Sep 5th, 2010 at 18:19:37.
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  3. #363
    Two better ways of dealing with BS issues, rather than ruining it:

    1. Make it Red/Blue team oriented, not Omni/Clan. No one cares about the RP element, and if you're so worried about protecting the RPers (probably less than 0.01% of the community), make a mercenary/mole option available which works like Neutrals do now and fills up the lacking team (RP fix that does nothing gamewise).

    2. Make it server/dimension crossing. Why have 2 sets of inactive BS when we can have 1 set of active BS? (Easy fix for you to make, all you need is 1 tiny TINY extra server.)

    There, 15 seconds of thinking = suggestions far superior to the ones FC present us with.

    Now excuse me, just got invited to BS after 2 mins waiting =)

  4. #364
    Means:
    Hi guys, where is the crat documentation so i post it on FWM to show our progress?
    Team:
    Ohhhhh , That's not finished since we are so busy doing other things.
    Means:
    Oke, well id like to show some nice progress, so anyone has fraps yet ? No ? DAMN.
    How about a nice screenshot via actual game? Ah, sorry yeah forgot, that doesn't work in current pf because of the way we have exported the pf.
    Team:
    Well this is no good, they wont be to impressed or distracted with a post saying we are unable to give them anything. I mean we dont even have a general idea about what is wrong with proffesion's and we haven't got some random nano changes PDF which would show them we are at least changing some stuff, so that they will believe we are working on rebalance.
    Means:
    What did u say there ? We have general idea about what is wrong with proffesion and we can post that and our idea's about how to fix it ? No ? Oke, sorry scratch that then, that would have been a great idea to actually show them that we have a clue.
    Team:
    Well how about we just post something about some controversial issue so that takes main focus of their whining for the next week and they forget about other issues ?
    Means:
    Good idea , let's pick a random thing out of the bowl of idea's that wont progress that game or progress it backwards.
    Oh, nice guys look , it is CHANGE BS PVP RANGES, this is a great one , who put this one in ?
    Anyway, ill let you guys get back to your plans for your weekend or plans to get a gf/bf from the AO fan meet, i'll have a ball posting this one so dont worry about it anymore. Thanks cya next week.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldofalts View Post
    so many people stating "this is going to happen" or "that is going to ruin this". in truth, you have no idea how it will effect things until it happens. the only thing i know, is that so far some (not all) pvp twinkies are upset, and that some pvp'ers (pretending to speak for pvm vp and dailie mish goers) are arguing that noone wants to do a daily/regular bs run where they get killed all the time. NEWS FLASH, that happens already to the pvm vp dailie mish goers, and yet bs is full of them, more than ever because of daily, and many stick around to get extra vp while still getting squashed, so the argument that they would stop going is not based in reality, but in fantasy, because with proposed level changes, they would be able to do their dailies at levels where bs wasn't running before. and if you're squishy, but don't like getting squashed, then team up with other people on your side and have fun.

    and yeah, I'll say it again, if you were gonna leave the game, you would just do it. if you need to use the threat of leaving (or try to convince others of the same) to convince the devs to change something, than obviously you must believe that your argument isn't convincing enough by itself to have an impact. calling me a forum fascist for saying this is your opinion, nothing more. and what i say is my opinion. consider it as just that and don't have a cow about it.
    You seem to not understand the threat of leaving the game. There comes a point when their is a final straw. And you seem to not understand the logc that people like the bs now as is and pvp somewhat as is. And your whole idea of just do it, well your not thinking at all. Why would i leave something if i like it as is. If i think the game is going in the toliet why would i keep overpaying for it?

    You really are unaware of Tl5 tatics on RK2. The ddaily mish goers go once most the time unless 1 side dominates. 1 Avergae twink ruins the pvm crowd.

    And your wrong your coming off as a forum facist bashing anyways views or opinions which object with your own. There is a reason the devs allow Friday with means to have replies. And yes people will leave the game, you think the threats are empty but would you like me to go back and copy forum links to other huge changes which caused AO poputlation to suffer?

    O and the major complaint isnt just the bs range opening its the pvp range. Because i can speak for rk2 when i say Tl5 happens once in a blue moon because tl7s have destroyed the level range. You dont beleive me or thin kthis is an empty statement go search the forums for TL5 level range and Tl7s hitting tl5s. Then you tell me if you think the threats are empty. Many of us who enjoy pvp have been wiating for ranges to get a bit smaller since all this new gear is open and FC makes it bigger. But all your going to do is bash this and anyone who objects because after looking at some of your forum post in this topic is you just want to create arguements. BTW 174s arnt pvp twinks their just bs people.
    Last edited by viktory22; Sep 5th, 2010 at 19:18:52.

  6. #366
    Woah. 19 pages already.

    Anyone else think Funcom touched a nerve with this proposed change?

    Since none of the other devs piped in for their obligatory "wat", "Stuff! Things!", "I was here too" type posts (or the Tsherman Translashion link), it almost feels intentional.
    Last edited by tazalanche; Sep 5th, 2010 at 19:28:14.
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  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Unfortunately we did not get a chance to complete the documentation for Crats this week...despite working on it pretty much the entire time. This is the first pet class we have touched and there is a significant amount of change and adjustment that was required and we wanted to make sure all the changes/improvements we wanted for the profession were considered carefully before they were released...unfortunately we ran out of time...but the work is going well. The document will be released to the professionals next week.

    Changes to the Battlestation + PvP Open Playfield

    We have been tweaking the level ranges of the battlestations to "open it up" to allow larger level ranges to participate..hopefully including ranges that did not run consistently. The new level ranges (along with removing the pet-bane "steps" around teleporters) will be coming in the next version. Players will likely not be very competitive with an average setup at the bottom of their level range...but at least they will be able to participate.

    New Level ranges:

    1-30
    31-60
    61-99
    100-149
    150-200
    201-220

    Currently to sign up for the Battlestation you have to travel to "your" level range Sign-Up terminal...this is also being changed. The terminals are being "centralized" in a PvP signup area and the terminals that will be distributed throughout Rubi-Ka will now transport you directly to this location. Access to the new open PvP area will also be from this central location and in the same level ranges. A version of this significant change should be on TestLive next week.

    Looking forward to seeing a great many of you next weekend...the response has been a bit overwhelming

    Have a great weekend!
    Anyone else see how FC contradicted themselves?"Players will likely not be very competitive with an average setup at the bottom of their level range...but at least they will be able to participate." Didnt we all think the rebalancing was suppose to help this.Guess not...

  8. #368
    FIRST! Oh yeah baby!
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  9. #369
    maybe Funcom should consider a plan to benefit "lower" levels on BS, like a specific Boost to apt/avb (why not for example make them the "same" inside a level range, so a level 155 player would get the same apt AR/DMG/DEF etc like a 195 Player in an APT...

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by ElBoogy View Post
    maybe Funcom should consider a plan to benefit "lower" levels on BS, like a specific Boost to apt/avb (why not for example make them the "same" inside a level range, so a level 155 player would get the same apt AR/DMG/DEF etc like a 195 Player in an APT...
    The true pvpers dont APT/AVB. Since the only pvp thats active is the bs. Tl5 bs is 99% of the pvp in the last 3months. The big reason is that no tl7s or toons twinked with more abilites and unfair advantges can hit tl5 in there.

    But seeing that this will be on test server they will say look 200s are getting destroyed by 170s so its fine. They will put it in game and the people will twink and make them look foolish. Look at past examplse like difficulty in LoX area. "Hard on test live" doable by 1-5people on live.

  11. #371
    true pvpers will maybe level up to 190+ just for BS, but this leaves the "normal pvmers" or people who are just trying to level all alone facing more uber twinks than now... so all i am saying is, changing the BS range is not just all that they are able to do and by far not all what they have to do to revive the BS for all Ranges.

  12. #372
    No as i stated, the true pvpers dont wanna be hit by toons with unfair advantages. The BS wont be revived like many think. And any person who levels to 195+ would just be hit by 220s who would also have unfair advantages. So leveling to 195+ makes no sense at all.

    When they do this the bs will be active for 1week like every other major change and then people will get sick of squishing to toons 0-50 levels higher. Look at LoX/Collector farmed nonstop for a week and now they stuggle run them daily..
    Last edited by viktory22; Sep 5th, 2010 at 21:30:15.

  13. #373
    Give people +4 AAO / AAD for every level under the max level of that BS range? Works like a charm in Warhammer online, and max levels and twinks still get a big advantage from gear.. -.^

    A nano decon room thingy casts on all who enter BS, with a certain amount of + AAO/AAD added depending on the targets level. Lasts 10min (If you survive more then 10min you dont deserve it anyway )
    Last edited by Rktim; Sep 5th, 2010 at 21:35:13.
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
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  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Rktim View Post
    Give people +4 AAO / AAD for every level under the max level of that BS range? Works like a charm in Warhammer online, and max levels and twinks still get a big advantage from gear.. -.^
    If they get a big advantage from gear problem is obviously not solved. And the +4 AAO/AAd per level wont make up for anything. Ip alone covers that not to mention gear.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    If they get a big advantage from gear problem is obviously not solved. And the +4 AAO/AAd per level wont make up for anything. Ip alone covers that not to mention gear.
    IP alone only covers that for pure combat professions.. Also you could throw in a runspeed boost thats the same amount for all in that BS range independent of level for the lowbies.. Or make it +5 DHU! IT WAS A FREAKING SUGGESTED NUMBER!

    Ok i wasn't going to go down this route but im so sick of people discarding entire ideas based on the fact that someone didn't suggest what they think is a perfect number.. Really, if you think its not enough then say it should be +5 or +6 instead and be constructive instead of just bitching... If you cant do that or argue against the idea as such because you think its flawed at its core then OR MAYBE come up with a suggestion of your own then STFU! FFS -.-

    It doesn't solve the problem of 200 twinks ganking 150s but its something that should have been there from the beginning.. I still say make it 150-199 and 200-220..
    Last edited by Rktim; Sep 5th, 2010 at 21:44:35.
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Messiah has spoken.

  16. #376
    You can´t compare BS to a pvm instance.

    and 220 can´t go to medlevel BS anyways.

    So some people will make a 190-220 twink for battlestation, but if all "true pvpers" (lol who should that be btw) don´t make a 190+ because it´s unfair i don´t get the point why bothering in QQing if being killed by those then.

    The idea of Rktim isn´t too bad too, maybe doing something like this to "balance" the different levels on BS more, the ones that twink will for sure get major advantage from the gear anyways but it could help the ones at the bottom end of a range.

    Of course it is only 1 piece of the puzzle to solve the incoming problems.

  17. #377
    By saying you need to add something like +aao/aad then your obviously agreeing lower levels are very weak. And in AO doing something like that would be very very tricky (or impossible based on coding) considering not every time you versus someone are they the same level distance from you.

    But if the idea is too boost skills of lower pvpers then do they really belong in that BS?

    Fine i wont compare to a pvm instance, how about that new pvp instance... People go in there and nuke themselves to make mobs spawn...

    And to oppose your point, I dont see anyone happy when a 207fixer with Envy/Onehander alphas an entire RI.

    And yes some will make a 200 twink. They will keep their old tl5 who at tl5 wars will now be ganked by 200s with pocket docs. What will happen is the same thing everytime, start with tl5s end up with tl7 war.
    Last edited by viktory22; Sep 5th, 2010 at 21:55:07.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    By saying you need to add something like +aao/aad then your obviously agreeing lower levels are very weak. And in AO doing something like that would be very very tricky (or impossible based on coding) considering not every time you versus someone are they the same level distance from you.

    But if the idea is too boost skills of lower pvpers then do they really belong in that BS?

    Fine i wont compare to a pvm instance, how about that new pvp instance... People go in there and nuke themselves to make mobs spawn...

    And to oppose your point, I dont see anyone happy when a 207fixer with Envy/Onehander alphas an entire RI.
    To clarify: Im only talking about inside the BS...

    Well say that a level 150 gets +125 AAO/AAD to make up for the pure differences in levels (calculating that skills are capped out at around 175, basically making him the same level as a 199 but with worse gear and less perks) If he runs in to a 160 it will still be equal because the 160 will have say +75 AAO/ADD. The total AAO/AAD will corespond to what they would be if both characters would be 199. Also its not that hard to code..

    The Decontamination unit already gives us HP/Nano/Nano C int and could just as easily buff everyone with a nano that has tons of "If level == 150 User modify AAO 125 and user modify AAD 125" "If level == 151 "--" " etc...

    a stripped 207 fixer would get.. about 300 AAO in the TL 7 BS putting him at the same AR as a stripped 220 fixer (Yes... the differences are that big, in reality with an aditional 13 perks and 215+ gear its WAY more..) while a 220 gets.. nothing..

    Sure it doesn't make them equal but it levels the playfeild within the Battle Stations alittle..

    As i said, it works like a charm in Warhammer Online (Everyone thats 1-11 are set to level 11 when they enter the battle ground but they ofcourse lack some of the skills and more importantly they lack the gear of a true level 11..)

    Only problem is that the nano would need 220 level checks and like 500+ lines of code, but if its possible to make the decontamination units in different battle stations cast different nanos, then that problem will kinda disappear..
    Last edited by Rktim; Sep 5th, 2010 at 22:04:59.
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
    Quote Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick View Post
    Messiah has spoken.

  19. #379
    I don´t care for new pvp instance pvp in ao is a bad joke since the day it was implemented.

    But the problem with BS is another one, we have some specific levels in AO, where you get a major boost just because you hit the level and get access to some new nanos/items etc. which are locked to a level or title level.

    Of course i am saying a level 150 one is very weak and has no chance against a 190 one or something like this, but what if it wasn´t like that?

    Would you be happy with leveling 40 out of 200 levels and doesn´t get ANYTHING that makes you stronger than before?

    If you want to have it "fair" or "balanced" you should make BS ranges much SMALLER instead of bigger, like level 150-159 because with 160 you get another perk, next range 160-169 and then 170-189, then 190 which btw is a very very interesting level because you get TL6 which enables you to wear alot of items, so level 190-199. and then maybe only 2-3 levels, because you get 1 perk with each shadowlevel?

    This would maybe be one of the most balanced system ever, because you only face oppononents that have more or less the same possibilitys you have.

    BUT with this the BS would run not really often...

    Funcom needs to get a balance between offering a system with open and big ranges to make BS run more often, and make BS run for almost every Range, and at the same time they try to get something that makes you able to compete in the low ends of the ranges (which is not really possible at all, but they should put their focus on that maybe).

    And with the ranges that are existing right now all we have really running is 150-174 and 210-220, this leaves the 150-210 people (and of course smaller ones) totally out of BS Rounds, ok letting them to the other 2 BS that are actually running may not be really fair, but i don´t think it would change too much after all because in BS it should be about teams and not only 1 person, and a 150 Doc can help his team survive too, ok a 175+ doc has a much better heal, but i think both would use mainly CH on BS and with NCR/Humidity buff both should be able to cast it more than once.

  20. #380
    The AAO/AAD change you propose seems to have some valid points, but, to me, the whole thing doesn't seem very AOish (excuse the lack of clarification, but I think you may understand what I mean when I say it doesn't seem like a mechanic you'd find in AO).

    Seems to me that such implementation would be making something more complex than it has to be in order to fix something that didn't need to be fuxxed up to begin with.

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