Thread: Friday with Means - September 3rd, 2010 - Battlestation changes

  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by ElBoogy View Post
    I don´t care for new pvp instance pvp in ao is a bad joke since the day it was implemented.

    But the problem with BS is another one, we have some specific levels in AO, where you get a major boost just because you hit the level and get access to some new nanos/items etc. which are locked to a level or title level.
    >etc etc etc..<
    I agree with almost all of this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Joehoo725 View Post
    The AAO/AAD change you propose seems to have some valid points, but, to me, the whole thing doesn't seem very AOish (excuse the lack of clarification, but I think you may understand what I mean when I say it doesn't seem like a mechanic you'd find in AO).

    Seems to me that such implementation would be making something more complex than it has to be in order to fix something that didn't need to be fuxxed up to begin with.
    Its actually something that should already be there tbh...
    And no it doesn't feel weary AOish, i know what you mean and i agree, but apparently whats AOish simply aint good enough to keep people around, times change and so should AO... New and more modern approaches to basic things like this might actually be good.. (Dont even get me started on AOs weary AOish GUI that lacks almost all of modern GUI features like quest area markers (A arrow with a M that only can be active for one mission at a time doesn't qualify, if it was a new MMO it would be considered a joke..), GPS routes, Quest NPC markers etc..)

    Level ranges on BS also need to widen, but this shouldn't be done at the expanse of a BS thats actually running, hence let lowbies join the TL 5 BS and the TL 7 BS.. Aka new level ranges being like 130-174 and 175-220 or there abouts.. Sure the 180s will get slaughtered but atleast they will have a chance to get some VP (right now they dont even get to get slaughtered for VP, they just dont get them)
    Last edited by Rktim; Sep 5th, 2010 at 22:16:45.
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
    Imdrunknow - 157+/XX/15+ Omni MA
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  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by ElBoogy View Post
    I don´t care for new pvp instance pvp in ao is a bad joke since the day it was implemented.

    But the problem with BS is another one, we have some specific levels in AO, where you get a major boost just because you hit the level and get access to some new nanos/items etc. which are locked to a level or title level.

    Of course i am saying a level 150 one is very weak and has no chance against a 190 one or something like this, but what if it wasn´t like that?

    Would you be happy with leveling 40 out of 200 levels and doesn´t get ANYTHING that makes you stronger than before?

    If you want to have it "fair" or "balanced" you should make BS ranges much SMALLER instead of bigger, like level 150-159 because with 160 you get another perk, next range 160-169 and then 170-189, then 190 which btw is a very very interesting level because you get TL6 which enables you to wear alot of items, so level 190-199. and then maybe only 2-3 levels, because you get 1 perk with each shadowlevel?

    This would maybe be one of the most balanced system ever, because you only face oppononents that have more or less the same possibilitys you have.

    BUT with this the BS would run not really often...

    Funcom needs to get a balance between offering a system with open and big ranges to make BS run more often, and make BS run for almost every Range, and at the same time they try to get something that makes you able to compete in the low ends of the ranges (which is not really possible at all, but they should put their focus on that maybe).

    And with the ranges that are existing right now all we have really running is 150-174 and 210-220, this leaves the 150-210 people (and of course smaller ones) totally out of BS Rounds, ok letting them to the other 2 BS that are actually running may not be really fair, but i don´t think it would change too much after all because in BS it should be about teams and not only 1 person, and a 150 Doc can help his team survive too, ok a 175+ doc has a much better heal, but i think both would use mainly CH on BS and with NCR/Humidity buff both should be able to cast it more than once.

    1st) using "what if" arguements dont ever work
    2nd) why should a 150 be equal to a 190 thats pretty much telling FC to destroy 40 levels so i ding 150 to 200.
    3rd) The only way a BS runs is if there are people to make it run cant believe this point has been said over and over
    4th) The reason certain BS ranges dont run is because their is no need. Like 201-209 or w/e it is, B/c I can do 10infs and ding 210.
    5th) Having +aao/aad working only in BS would destroy Notum wars. Which iirc is way more important then vps... If FC really really wanted the bs to run they would allow a Red vs. Blue

    Finally your point about smaller bs ranges is true. Always will be. Closer the range more closely the toons are related. But the one thing the current tl5 range offers is all different types of twinks. Its not 220 were there are 1-3 possible ways to twink your toon.
    Last edited by viktory22; Sep 5th, 2010 at 22:12:50.

  3. #383
    Only.. Inside... The battle station...

    And if you mange to go 40 levels without getting 4 perks and >better gear<... Well then your a fr00b, and a horrible MMO player...

    Adjusting level ranges inside PvP battle grounds is a system that has been tried and proven to work...
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
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  4. #384
    Im confused at what your saying, adjusting the level range is what they plan on doing and most have pointed out to FC about all the stuff they put in game which they forget. You made the comment about Warhammer online with +4aao/aad and that works in a game with 40 as the max level and level locked gear.

    And when in AO has it been tried and proven to work. They had to make the ranges smaller every since the beggining to make PvP function...

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    Im confused at what your saying, adjusting the level range is what they plan on doing and most have pointed out to FC about all the stuff they put in game which they forget. You made the comment about Warhammer online with +4aao/aad and that works in a game with 40 as the max level and level locked gear.

    And when in AO has it been tried and proven to work. They had to make the ranges smaller every since the beggining to make PvP function...
    What?` Dude you best be trollin...

    Yes, and they need to adjust the level ranges, because BS ranges are mainly broken except for TL 5 and TL 7

    WAR having 40 levels and AO having 220 levels is a mute point, the same principles still apply independ of what number you set as max.. 150s in AO getting a amount of AAO/AAD that balances out the extra IP 190s have would be almost exactly the same as level 21s getting level 30 inside a WAR bg...

    Seeing how its AAO and AAD it doesn't matter if you have level locked gear or not, it doesn't allow you to equip better gear so thats also a mute point, In Warhammer online they actually set your level to the max level of that BG... That wont work in AO because you would have to distribute tons of IP every time you enter the BS, what does work in AO is adding an amount of AAO and AAD equal to what you would have gotten if you would have been the top level for that BS... (Tbh AAO and AAD should work for nanos/nr also... AND PERKS why they are chaining that is beyond me..)

    It would mean that whenever you entered a BS you could atleast feel useful instead of just beeing dead weigth even if you are still subpar to the people who have the "real" max level for that level range due to gear and perk differences..

    It would work in AO, crawl out of that box before you start wrapping tinfoil around your head..
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
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  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Rktim View Post
    To clarify: Im only talking about inside the BS...

    The Decontamination unit already gives us HP/Nano/Nano C int and could just as easily buff everyone with a nano that has tons of "If level == 150 User modify AAO 125 and user modify AAD 125" "If level == 151 "--" " etc...

    Only problem is that the nano would need 220 level checks and like 500+ lines of code, but if its possible to make the decontamination units in different battle stations cast different nanos, then that problem will kinda disappear..
    Suppressive Horde, for instance, already gives 1 point of additional damage per player's level, so this should not be that tricky to solve technically, really. Still, it's only a partial fix as there are professions who benefit from AAO and AAD, and those who really don't to the same extent. Particularly with AAO/AAD not affecting perks not checking weapon skills / evades in the near future.

    Another interesting consequence would be you'd be better of stopping leveling where you get title capped (except for perks and level locked stuff) - i.e. a 170 vs. at 179, for instance, the level 170 would have an edge.

    None the less this is still somewhat solvable via only accumulating buff bonus for each 10 levels or so, and having different BS ranges means you can have different sorts of buffs for each BS - so that you really don't need 220 level checks.

    Hell, you could add run speed here as well.

    Finally, the thought of having a "220 only" BS is interesting, but it would most likely mean that few PvMers would ever set foot there, farming everything they need beforehand if at all possible without having the top 220s stomping their head in. Consequentially, 220 BS would run less, and the PvP crowd would have their 207/214 twinks (or some other, even dedicated 219 twinks) to farm the PvMers, because you know there are these people.
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  7. #387
    Another difference between AO and other games is that AO is not linear. And yes the fact that you even suggest that toons get +aao/aad states that they dont belong in the same range as another toon. And if it only occurs in the BS then you destroy NW.

    And what your asking is not just a simple code.

    Nice comment at the bottom you must be trolling, o and btw your little AAO/AAD to make the extra ip differences is just plan silly, that means you dont get benefit for leveling which would mean based on your logic a 1-220 BS would mean the level 1 would have endgame AR. See the faults there?

    PS: And making the unit buff people isnt an easy script. Since it currently doesnt buff you.
    Last edited by viktory22; Sep 6th, 2010 at 00:08:53.

  8. #388
    OK this changes are a joke right?
    1-30 pvp - what chance stand a level 1 toon vs level 30 toon ? its just ridicilous...
    31-60 pvp - good for totw twinks or ppl that just want to have some fun at these levels - thats nice
    61-99 - lets see a level 61-74 toon can use ai tech 1 - max ql of AI armors is 75... in the other hand a 99 person can twink ~160 or even higher AI armors which give x2+ stats ... and 99 toon has 3 more perks + a couple more of AI levels ... thats rly not balanced aswell
    100-149 pvp - this BS terminal will be nice for tl4 twinks since they use mailny same gear / implants and close ql symbs ... then again - 4 perks + 8 AI perks difference is huge... but this will revive tl4 Battlestation probably so thats nice too!
    150-199.... you're joking right? what chance stand a 150 twink vs 199 toon with 300 armors and tl6 requirement stuff ? this will kinda ruin tl5/6 pvp ... even tl5 NW which is kinda bad aswell ...
    201-220 pvp - this doesnt rly sounds balanced but most of not-220 toons are just VP leachers so let them leach while PVP-ers are tryin to kill eachother or to have some fun??

    IF pvp ranges get nerfed same way Battlestation + Notum Wars PVP will change a lot which could be nice for everyone - should be a good idea for Funcom to think about this too!

  9. #389
    they should add +1 to max level from each AI30 toon on account!

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Breakme View Post
    OK this changes are a joke right?
    1-30 pvp - what chance stand a level 1 toon vs level 30 toon ? its just ridicilous...
    31-60 pvp - good for totw twinks or ppl that just want to have some fun at these levels - thats nice
    61-99 - lets see a level 61-74 toon can use ai tech 1 - max ql of AI armors is 75... in the other hand a 99 person can twink ~160 or even higher AI armors which give x2+ stats ... and 99 toon has 3 more perks + a couple more of AI levels ... thats rly not balanced aswell
    100-149 pvp - this BS terminal will be nice for tl4 twinks since they use mailny same gear / implants and close ql symbs ... then again - 4 perks + 8 AI perks difference is huge... but this will revive tl4 Battlestation probably so thats nice too!
    150-199.... you're joking right? what chance stand a 150 twink vs 199 toon with 300 armors and tl6 requirement stuff ? this will kinda ruin tl5/6 pvp ... even tl5 NW which is kinda bad aswell ...
    201-220 pvp - this doesnt rly sounds balanced but most of not-220 toons are just VP leachers so let them leach while PVP-ers are tryin to kill eachother or to have some fun??

    IF pvp ranges get nerfed same way Battlestation + Notum Wars PVP will change a lot which could be nice for everyone - should be a good idea for Funcom to think about this too!
    Bump for yet another pvper who actually DOES lowbie NW/BS and therefor knows what he/she is talking about.

  11. #391
    BS should be active first of all!

    You cant give every level range in AO a perfect entrance to BS, because of one simple reason:
    AO don't have enough players to fill the queues!

    If some feel that it not fair that their not fully equipped lvl 101 character (example out of my own wish 101-150) has to face several twinked lvl 150's in BS..? Then either skip the BS idea a couple days, or go APT/AVB! You wouldn't have a lot other things to do in there at 135 either unless you twinked up a bunch..

    Stop complaining.
    Make less BS entrances.

    If by chance there were only three BS entrances, one for top level 60, one for top level 150 and one for top level 220, there would be gaps where we wouldnt have anything to do at BS, but it would happen a lot more often at its ranges! Not saying that this would be a good solution, it just illustrates that having too many ranges is NOT the solution when all this is about making BS happen more often.


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  12. #392
    A few things, first regarding this BS change. So the idea seems to be to hopefully have all the BSs running at least occasionally, we all get that. What we don't get is why and for who? What do you see the role of BSs to be, who are they for and how does this change benefit them?

    Then as you're making a new zone for people to hang out in after they sign up at current terminals why not get rid of all but one to three of the BS terminals? Then put the terminals either just in a neutral location or one in a city for each faction. No real need for those terminals to be for each range when the real terminals are in the new zone.

    Next regarding the rebalancing info I think more general info would do us a lot more good than specific info. Since we don't know much at all about what will be changed on a whole and why we can't really properly comment on these nano changes and such. When people do comment it's in regards to how things are now, but the changes are for how things will be.

    So rather these specific figures on perks, nanos and so on why not give us more general info? That is say what you're thoughts are on changes regarding mobs, PvM, PvP, nanos in general, perks in general, items in general, concepts worked towards for each prof and so forth. Not all of it at once but a chunk here and a chunk there occasionally going back to comment on changes. That sort of info would give us a much better picture of what you're working towards and be something we could comment on more effectively.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Next regarding the rebalancing info I think more general info would do us a lot more good than specific info. Since we don't know much at all about what will be changed on a whole and why we can't really properly comment on these nano changes and such. When people do comment it's in regards to how things are now, but the changes are for how things will be.

    So rather these specific figures on perks, nanos and so on why not give us more general info? That is say what you're thoughts are on changes regarding mobs, PvM, PvP, nanos in general, perks in general, items in general, concepts worked towards for each prof and so forth. Not all of it at once but a chunk here and a chunk there occasionally going back to comment on changes. That sort of info would give us a much better picture of what you're working towards and be something we could comment on more effectively.
    /signed
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  14. #394
    Problem of it all is:

    From that change mostly PVM-Players who want to leech VPs will benefit.
    For PVP Players it brings very view benefits but much more disadvantages.

    Batlle Station is basically a PvP-area.
    As there are People who spent much time/effort in creating chars for PvP it's obvious that they complain.
    Same would happen if sector 10 would be announced to be locked for Level 140 for example
    (Only PvM wise here)

  15. #395
    Ofcourse, every change, esepcially touching twinks (which you have or think you have) will be controvercial, but its needed! Just take a look at sugested ranges, but LOWBIE (not l5, oh oh!)

    1-30:

    OK: Great, that those lvl 5-10-15 twinks will get BS. That was needed from long time ago.
    OK: Somehow lvl 10-15 is balanced, even 21 is still balanced - that makes those particular twinks on same level in fight.
    BAD: lvl 1 vs 10 or 15 is rubbish, not mentioning anything higher then that
    BAD: LVL 1-14 cant wear AI armor...

    30-60:

    OK: Those range will make TOTW twinks highly usabble.
    OK: Openning lvl 60 to lowbies will cause bigger diversity in classes attending BS
    OK: Since on Rimor lvl 60 and 49 are good occupied, it shall turn out that this BS will be most participated one.
    OK: Most welcome thing in that lvl range is AI armor - which aint changeing, since both lvl 30 and 60 can use AI1 AI armors.
    BAD: I doubt, that most will retwink/rebuild/build new twinks especially for lvl 60, if they have already those 49.

    60-100:

    OK: Haveing few lvl 74 I must say, its welcome change, cause BS 50-74 is dead since 2 years or so. Those twinks can still be good vs most lvl 100... but...
    BAD: (VERY BAD!) Biggest differance will be AI armor, and Jump from AI1 to AI2, which makes lvl 75 traders/Enfs/Keeper way to OP vs all others, and traders comes to my mind at first place, since I got one and I must say, lvl 100 will just own everything over there.
    BAD: lvl 60 Tokens vs lvl 100 tokens... I mean... what the hell?

    So, as you noticed, every change has its good sides, and bad ones. My sugestions, based on my whole experiance will be lill change over the top of Tl3 and very first lvls of characters.

    BS lvl ranges

    10-30
    30-60
    60-99
    100-149
    150-200

    That should be good!
    I like PvP
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  16. #396
    20 pages of whinning. Because the 174 twinks will have to level to 200 to continue spawncamping at the BS. You should be happy, leveling to 200 will make it even easier.


    Oh and mister developer dewd, give them the level adjustments they want. Having a twink for both ToTW and the BS will do much good to the little egos without any aditional work required.
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  17. #397
    yay for people playing at 220 only for the last 5 years and commenting on how should the lowbie PvP be.

    Please ...
    * changing drasticaly the range of BS that doesnt run = good
    * changing a tad the range of BS that do run constantly = why not ( 150 - 189 = ok for me)
    * changing stupidly the range of BS that already run = suicidal.


    (for those accusing to talk "save my twinks", I ve got a 150, and get pwned already by 174... so ...)
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  18. #398
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    A lot of people are complaining about future of lvl 200 characters farming 150s etc. so ive come with an easy solution: remove pvp score from the game so there it will be less tempting to farm those greenies and spawncamp. Once you get nothing, most likely youll try to find fights that are interesting, not “profitable” in terms of score. Same goes with duel score that prevents people from doing duels at all so they don’t get all those negative score.

    150-200 isnt a good idea. 150-199 would be much better so top geared lvl 200 pvm twinks would be bottom of food chain at BS in terms of levels. Their gear and effort spend in twiking wolud allow them to fight higher level opponents. It works for current tl5 BS where 150s are often very competitive against higher lvl opponents.

    Ive also come with a simple and nice solution to 150s issue and s10 failed design: a 12 - man like temporary aao/aad/dmg buff aviable from killing s10 generals.
    Last edited by Ciekafsky; Sep 6th, 2010 at 14:07:47.
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  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusos101 View Post
    20 pages of whinning. Because the 174 twinks will have to level to 200 to continue spawncamping at the BS. You should be happy, leveling to 200 will make it even easier.


    Oh and mister developer dewd, give them the level adjustments they want. Having a twink for both ToTW and the BS will do much good to the little egos without any aditional work required.
    if you believe its about 174s your wrong, they already chose a "BS noob" lvl, wich made them close to useless at tl5 NW, the twinks that will get screwed over in the process are mainly 159-164s, and those are the ppl/twinks not made for maximum advantage inside bs, but for not being attackable by 200-207 and even higher, twink killers

    what will change for them is:
    1) there will be a new breed of s7 pvm twinks, but aswell 200 bs pvp twinks, with ai30/le70/300 combined/ofabs/hhab equipped, a more in many cases, of wich at least a part will be comming to NW, but not on their own, but will be pocketed by 220s, and they will have tl7 7x self refreshing blockers from a 220 engy
    2) inside BS they wont have to compete with twinks 10 lvls higher then them like so far, but will have to compete with 36 lvls higher twinks


    so in short, they loose the advantage of not being attackable by ppl outside their title level at NW, and at same time they have to compete with twinks 36 lvls higher then them inside BS, 26 lvls more then so far( and ai30 le70 etc etc )

    159-164 will become useless overnight, all it will be good for is lvl up, ppl wanting the same functionality of a current 159-164 will have to reroll 158


    if you dont call it a slap in the face of part of theirs paying player base i dont know what would be it, i got enuff 220s, forcing me to make more out of my current twinks aint ok
    Last edited by Insane666; Sep 6th, 2010 at 13:55:45.
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  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Insane666 View Post
    159-164 will become useless overnight, all it will be good for is lvl up, ppl wanting the same functionality of a current 159-164 will have to reroll 158
    lol yup everyone and their grandmother is going to have 200/30/70 fully twinked toons over night... I currently play a 164 from time and time and when/if I get around to finishing my doc he will be 164 as well... noone is going to reroll 158 they will just use their 150s that they already have if 200s become a real issue.

    The only change I would like to see is 150s being dropped down to 100-149 instead of 150-200...

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