Friday with Means - September 3rd, 2010 - Battlestation changes

[Akiiras]

Uhm... Imho this won't fix anything!
You are still putting the majority of players in two BS groups!
150-200 will have all the S10, and tower twinks out there!
I agree that joining 201-220 together is a good idea to make it envelop more ppl, but wouldn't it be better to look to the future?:P
I mean there's gonna be a new sector right? For 150-200?
So people out there will have lots of twinks for it!
What I'm proposing is to make a small tweak to the lvl range:

1-30
31-60
61-99
(Obviously those won't run anyways -,- maybe with the exception of 31-60, but will still require those 49 twinks out there to do sthing :P)
100-150 (INCLUDE the S10 twinks here!)
151-200 (INCLUDE the S07 twink here!)
201-220

Whatcha guys think?

1-30 <-- agree 100%
31-60 <-- agree 100%
61-100 (INCLUDE the Foremans twinks here!) <-- my opinion
(Obviously those won't run anyways -,- maybe with the exception of 31-60, but will still require those 49 twinks out there to do sthing :P)
101-150 (INCLUDE the S10 twinks here!) <-- agree 100%
151-200 (INCLUDE the S07 twink here!) <-- agree 100%
201-220 <-- agree 100%

edit: 201-219 and a separate 220 would make sense, but the 201-219 would prolly never run then. give them a chance to join for dailys will prolly be the best solution, as it will be evenly across both sides anyways i guess.

[Luziciona]

Right now there are 51 players with AI online, level 140-164, on Atlantean (RK1).

The numbers for 165-189 is 33 with AI, and 7 SL/fr00bs.

If BS was fun, many of these would be on the battle Station.
So would many of the other players with alts in this range.

Edit:
...repeating my previous suggestions:
100-139 - "beginner" - preventing evade classes from ruling too hard (acro 4: DoF)...
140-164 - "middle league" - S10, NW twinks, ++
165-189 - "hardcore" - BS twinks, ++

[Animistic]

a bunch of us are watching and laughing at your frustration, while we just roll 200's and have fun.

Such attitude still isnt answering to the issues related to TL5 changes such as lvl 200 twinks with 220 pocket docs turning TL5 wars into series of TL7 pocket wars. Or how HHAB will screw royally over all nanocasting profs. Or how some lvl 200 profs will become just way too powerful compared to lower ones when they get access to new items and ai30/le70. McKnuckle already gave good example about enfos earlier.

So yeah, keep on laughing and not caring at all, it just comes out as ignorance and not being able to see all the concequences to someone else.

If FC is to gonna go through with this, then they better also concider changing some things at the 175-200 levels. Perk accessability, LE research level caps perhaps higher, HHAB to give +500 NR only if user is lvl 201+ etc. (so the silly PVMer argument of "i wanna take my 190 to Pande" wont be affected by all this in anyway).

lol @ people saying 150s stand a chance vs 165s/174s.

Enfos are the only exception to the rule I can think of.

Slightly off-topic already but... If you are refering to my earlier comment, then i still stand by it. Got 150 MA and it can do fine against many 164-174 profs/toons.

150 Docs can also do fine as support healers and survive many higher level twinks too. Also 150 soljas if properly AR twinked, can both do nice dmg and survive decently against many higher level ones. And enfos you mentioned already. Only thing not mentioned from my earlier list left is trader, and yeah its not best at 150, but it can still do great support work as debuffer.

[Animistic]

...repeating my previous suggestions:
100-139 - "beginner" - preventing evade classes from ruling too hard (acro 4: DoF)...
140-164 - "middle league" - S10, NW twinks, ++
165-189 - "hardcore" - BS twinks, ++

It's not bad suggestion IF servers were full to the brink. But as they are not, we dont need to split the current Tl5 BS population into two and make em run even less.

[Coldan]

Such attitude still isnt answering to the issues related to TL5 changes such as lvl 200 twinks with 220 pocket docs turning TL5 wars into series of TL7 pocket wars. Or how HHAB will screw royally over all nanocasting profs. Or how some lvl 200 profs will become just way too powerful compared to lower ones when they get access to new items and ai30/le70. McKnuckle already gave good example about enfos earlier.

So yeah, keep on laughing and not caring at all, it just comes out as ignorance and not being able to see all the concequences to someone else.

If FC is to gonna go through with this, then they better also concider changing some things at the 175-200 levels. Perk accessability, LE research level caps perhaps higher, HHAB to give +500 NR only if user is lvl 201+ etc. (so the silly PVMer argument of "i wanna take my 190 to Pande" wont be affected by all this in anyway).

If I understand correctly, the changes are in the BS only, while the normal pvp ranges outside the BS's will still exist (please correct me if i'm wrong). Which is one of the reasons i'm laughing so damn hard...AND if i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'll still have more fun though.

Also, I would never ASSUME funcom wouldn't retrofit/alter items to fit better into level range changes...but IF THEY DO...there's not much you can do about that, other than talk about it more, complain more, hope it changes, or adapt. Yes this is my attitude, because I roll with punches, I adapt, I change, and I don't expect the "beast" to.

What i'm trying to aim at here, is that the whole point of this game is having fun. And if I become so serious as to worry my toons are "destroyed" and there's no longer a possible way for me to play or enjoy, and now i have to put in more "work"....maybe i need to quit and find something more fun to do. This is a game, have fun guys!

[Redbar]

If I understand correctly, the changes are in the BS only, while the normal pvp ranges outside the BS's will still exist (please correct me if i'm wrong). Which is one of the reasons i'm laughing so damn hard...AND if i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'll still have more fun though.

The changes are BS only, and will not change the attackable level ranges outside BS. (and in BS, everyone can already attack everyone regardless of level range).

As I understand it, the hypothesis that the BS range of 150-200 will negatively affect TL5 wars is based chiefly on the following assumptions:
* Instead of the 174 BS chars we have today, we'll have 200s that can also be significantly more effective "twink killers" in TL5 NW. Basically, the 150-200 BS gives you something fun to do on your twink killer when there's no war on.
* TL5 BS currently gives the 160ish NW twinks something to do when there's no war on. The 200 BS twinks will be more effective against them than the 174 twinks are today, so less fun BS for NW players (getting chain killed) and less incentive to play their chars.

[Luziciona]

Right now there are 51 players with AI online, level 140-164, on Atlantean (RK1).

The numbers for 165-189 is 33 with AI, and 7 SL/fr00bs.

If BS was fun, many of these would be on the battle Station.
So would many of the other players with alts in this range.

Edit:
...repeating my previous suggestions:
100-139 - "beginner" - preventing evade classes from ruling too hard (acro 4: DoF)...
140-164 - "middle league" - S10, NW twinks, ++
165-189 - "hardcore" - BS twinks, ++

Animistic, Littlelion: Read what I write, please.

[-LL-]

Since if you aren't twinked, BS isn't fun, you need to wider the range of pvm toons being able to get VPs in a "always" running BS, therefore
100-139
140-189
has more sense. Then the next will be
190-216/219 and this BS would still run quite enough (due to S7 twinks and leveling people)
and at the end 220 elite BS
population actually is too low and BS not so attractive to make it worth to split the TL5 BS in two

[Animistic]

If I understand correctly, the changes are in the BS only, while the normal pvp ranges outside the BS's will still exist (please correct me if i'm wrong). Which is one of the reasons i'm laughing so damn hard...AND if i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'll still have more fun though.

Ill quote myself from several pages before:

Thing many dont seem to grasp here. Is that the new 200 twinks, will completely destroy also Tl5 NW wars. Imagine bunch of lvl 200 agents, enfos and NTs pocketed by 220 docs. Those can kill everything down to 159, turning every tl5 war into tl7 war instead. There are already those Tl5 twink killers, but this will make them lot more common. And the issue isnt about if 170 can kill 200 in this case, but how to deal with the 220 pocket the 200 can have.

~~~

Also, I would never ASSUME funcom wouldn't retrofit/alter items to fit better into level range changes...but IF THEY DO...there's not much you can do about that, other than talk about it more, complain more, hope it changes, or adapt. Yes this is my attitude, because I roll with punches, I adapt, I change, and I don't expect the "beast" to.

These forums are open for commenting also so the Devs and FC can listen opinions of players. I personally like TL5 even more so than TL7, so if it aint broken, why 'fix' it? In this case it might prove pretty devastating. But in the end, if all their changes go through as it is now, then i will also adapt and change and go with the flow, but what im trying to basicly do here is alter some of the very unbalanced things that currently are coming with it.

What i'm trying to aim at here, is that the whole point of this game is having fun. And if I become so serious as to worry my toons are "destroyed" and there's no longer a possible way for me to play or enjoy, and now i have to put in more "work"....maybe i need to quit and find something more fun to do. This is a game, have fun guys!

It's a game, but ive also invested countless hours of my gametime to my currently active 4x TL5 twinks. So id rather not see them go broken. For example my Crat is going to be pretty much useless against people running around with HHABs in the BS when my toolset (which is already weak) ceases to completely work anymore against too high NR. Should i just take the punch and laugh in this case?



ps. I also understand if all this whine/crying/constructive criticism seems silly to people who mainly play 220s and do PVM, since its not their game experience then that gets altered. But people have different ways of playing this game, and for me TL5 has been something ive focused a lot on past years, why all these posts in this thread.

[RedWatr]

these changes are about as well thought out as the debuff bracers for bs ><

[Luziciona]

Since if you aren't twinked, BS isn't fun, you need to wider the range of pvm toons being able to get VPs in a "always" running BS, therefore
100-139
140-189
has more sense. Then the next will be 190-216/219 and this BS would still run quite enough (due to S7 twinks and leveling people) and at the end 220 elite BS population actually is too low and BS not so attractive to make it worth to split the TL5 BS in two

First of all: Glad we agree on 100 - 139.

Second: 140-189 is less horrible than 150-200, since you remove TL6 and 200 players.

Still, it is not good. Some people might be able to fit in QL240 symbs and I've heard of NTs with Special Ed headwear/300 scout at 174!
Considering this, meeting a 189 twinked player at 140 will be traumatic. No one likes to be mowed down like grass...

[Tazalanche]

I assumed that a FWM thread with over 450 posts would have had some comments from the Devs by now.


I guess that's what I get for assuming.

[Autohead]

I assumed that a FWM thread with over 450 posts would have had some comments from the Devs by now.


I guess that's what I get for assuming.

I'm predicting this week's FWM to be a full retraction...we'll see I guess!

[Lheann]

It is just no ones wants to own up to be the party that suggested this lame idea. And they realize at this point that it is not a defendable position. I would go as far as guess that the decision was made before anyone had actually looked at armor/items/perks/ai levels that this change would allow to come into play across the board. While we are making a big deal about TL5 in this thread there are other level ranges that just don't make sense as well.

I am beginning to question if FC knows just what of level twinking can be accomplished in the TL5-6 range. To suggest the 150-200 range comes off as not understanding the very game they are working on. Within an hour of this post going up it was clear that the players could see the gap they are creating in that range.

I have a150 twink and stand my ground in the TL5 BS as it is. But I would not want to go up against 200/30/70 twinks. That is just a level difference I can't overcome. And I have no desire to be slaughter over and over. I have all my VP items on that toon already so I do BS for fun. And trust me getting chain killed by 200 twinks is not even close to fun.

For those that don't see how this effects NW events. When BS and PVM content line up like 150-200 presents there will be twinks built there. As has been indicated a 200 twink can attack down to 159's. That is pretty close to the entire TL5 range. But since a 220 can pocket heal the 200's any TL5 event will be full of TL6/7 toons. So unless your entire TL5 field is level 150-158 towers, which I do see becoming common field configurations, these 200 twinks with 220 pockets will just mow your field down. No where is that fun.

[Armus]

I like the idea of 150-200.

Will it make 174's get pwned by uber 200 twinks? A couple. But most 174 twinks will **** the /wannabe 200 pvpers. 8p

You're forgetting the 200 twink crews to which any toon that is also useful fortl5 NW will be targetting practice for.

(useful as in actually able to hit the towers)

[Armus]

Removing 150s from Tl5 BS (that 151-200 suggestion), would be like taking away half of the playerbase from there. It would then end up in two BSes that neither runs actively enough, instead of 1 active one.

Exactly.

[Armus]

Here is a great idea:

Put some quests in that has lowbie ofab armour as reward. The ql ofab you get would depend on your level.
Make it repeatable so you can farm a set that way.
Make it so you can only do it up until level 99.

There you go, problem with the lower tl's all solved.

Then leave 150-174 and 210-220 bs alone and make one range for 175-209. This will be the range where ppl who MUST farm vp before they level on can struggle.

Letting 201's into current 220 bs is going to kill the fun there completely, just as letting 200's into tl5 bs, but in the opposite way.
Say you get 5 sub 205's on your side while the other side have decked out 220's.

There is nothing you can do then. Your side will get plastered all over the walls over and over and over.

You can NOT widen the ranges this much and hope anyone who is even remotely interested in the actual PVP to enjoy it.
Not even the VP farmers will benefit from this. When the pvpers leave for another game BS won't run!

[Armus]

It is just no ones wants to own up to be the party that suggested this lame idea. And they realize at this point that it is not a defendable position. I would go as far as guess that the decision was made before anyone had actually looked at armor/items/perks/ai levels that this change would allow to come into play across the board. While we are making a big deal about TL5 in this thread there are other level ranges that just don't make sense as well.

I am beginning to question if FC knows just what of level twinking can be accomplished in the TL5-6 range. To suggest the 150-200 range comes off as not understanding the very game they are working on. Within an hour of this post going up it was clear that the players could see the gap they are creating in that range.

I have a150 twink and stand my ground in the TL5 BS as it is. But I would not want to go up against 200/30/70 twinks. That is just a level difference I can't overcome. And I have no desire to be slaughter over and over. I have all my VP items on that toon already so I do BS for fun. And trust me getting chain killed by 200 twinks is not even close to fun.

For those that don't see how this effects NW events. When BS and PVM content line up like 150-200 presents there will be twinks built there. As has been indicated a 200 twink can attack down to 159's. That is pretty close to the entire TL5 range. But since a 220 can pocket heal the 200's any TL5 event will be full of TL6/7 toons. So unless your entire TL5 field is level 150-158 towers, which I do see becoming common field configurations, these 200 twinks with 220 pockets will just mow your field down. No where is that fun.

Well said

[Redgrid]

Make four BS's.

60
150
200
220

Many will cry for a while..

[Lusos101]

The BSs where created specifically to turn the toons of a vast majority of players into cannonfooder for the enjoyment of a few twinks. Making those twinks feel a bit of their own remedy is called justice. :P

/whine moar 101