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Thread: Friday with Means - September 17th, 2010 - No footage for the greater good

  1. #101
    Bump for level range free pvp, and battle station to match. Damn your twinks, grow up.
    ____ Equipment
    Kopo: There's nothing wrong with the (NT) profession itself, it's just that the other 99.9% of us playing it are deluded & incompetent.
    Unzipped: I'm right, Schmorgi is right... everyone else is wrong and /org lazy.... yep... that pretty much sums up my thoughts.
    Mangle: .... even still the leveling curve seems steep. Why must there be an exponential leveling curve? Who the hell invented that crap with MMOs to begin with?
    deniska: malewerecat h8 for making me agree with Masta
    sobeguy:Anyhow, Marius was evil regardless. Gaute was evil too. They are like, the Bat Man and Robin of evil. They probably run around in tights and masks, making vaguely homoerotic comments, and generally meddling anywhere people are trying to have fun!
    Righteous:Sil is in the kitchen making some sandwiches, he says you're lying and doesn't know who you are.
    Sephiroth:you managed to bother two people with one sentence. Nice
    I Remember The Missing: Nepenthia, Naraya, Satenia.

  2. #102
    TBH, the real problem isn't level ranges anyhow. By their own admission, the people who complain about BS never running acknowledge that they can't find 11 other people who feel the same way they do about the battlestations.

    The real problems are:
    • lack of variety in terrain or maps, so BS gets to be monotonous after a while (we need more maps)
    • current maps make it too easy for one side to spawncamp once they get the upper hand (can be fixed by multiple spawnpoints per side, and making sure each profession can fully buff before spawning)
    • too far for lowbies to run between points (requires more teleporters or smaller maps for lowbies)


    You need to get more people interested in doing BS, not concentrate the shrinking BS populations by reducing available instances.

  3. #103
    10-30, so no pvp for my level one and we still have Notum Repulsor twinks killing everyone as well as abusing zap nano (perks that do not require "in combat" to use and also do not damage a target will not unconceal you).

    31 to 60 will be running consistently.

    61 to 100 will almost never run, two dead levels combined equals a beaten dead level, but not sure what else could be down without extending the range to 60-100.

    101 to 150 and 151 to 175, you made 101-150 run occasionally and pretty much killed 151-174 battlestation. You seperated two large groups of BS participants meaning you crippled the population needed to start them. You will have a very hard time finding enough 151-174 tower twinks wanting to work on acquiring VP at the same time to start this level.

    175 to 214, froobs are screwed again, sector 7 twinks that would have populated a lower level get slaughtered, 207 gank toons get to spawn camp all day, leveling toons will actually not participate because they get farmed to death and just level instead of getting VP for ofab.

    215 to 220, cutting down population even further, not too much, but enough to make BS rounds slightly less frequent.

    My new suggested range is:

    1 to 24
    25 to 55
    56 to 100 (Yes a 56 twink can do fine)
    101 to 159
    160 to 200
    201 to 220

    No Notum Repulsor at the lowest BS, I do not care if you keep the minimum 10 range but that perk is way too strong to be allowed.

    The 25 to 55 range will run, that is the bulk of tl2 twinks.

    56 is the beginning of a tier of tower wars twinks and including 60's might actually get that range to run.

    Increasing the next to 159 actually includes some leveling pvmers and will help the round run more often without a major skill difference.

    160 to 200 will allow you to group the pre-SL inferno levelers as well as allowing froobs a fair battlestation to pvp in that will also run. The sector 7 twinks also need to be the highest point to include players that will be twinking into 300 ofabs and attempting ai 30.

    By putting all the shadowlevels in a single BS, it will run more often, 207 twinks can have a place for pvp outside of towers and ganking, and you will generally maintain a fair level of players due to 201+ leveling much more easily to higher or safer levels and strong gear that opens at 201+

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by omnesnox View Post
    So are there also plans to lower the number of people required to start/maintain BS? These proposed level changes are severely overestimating the amount of active players on rk2. 210-220 is already frequently dead during my evenings (US west coast), so 215-220 would be awful.
    Same on rk1 to be honest, in fact anything concerning US primetime timezone usually isn't happening.
    Solidstriker 220 Soldier- Pewpew Galore | Markerz 220 Engineer- Widowmaker
    Speedyadvy 165 Adventurer- PvP Gimp | Cruellia 164 Bureaucrat - Puppies!
    Nerf 219 Agent - From the Shadows | Swishswash 157 Fixer - Vector Tap
    Northaurora 85 Nano-Technician - Shimmering Light

  5. #105
    I agree with eroz about 189.

    and I also think it would be cool to have overlapping BS's.

    For example, levels like 150 where there are hundreds of players, you coul dhave two options, to be the highby, or to be the lowby.

    I think the optimal level ranges for BS would be:

    Same as suggested up to 150,

    then, overlap 150 into the TL5 group

    150-189

    then, the largest and most dominant BS as the high one as

    190 - 220

    Sure, a 190 won't compete vs a 220, but, it'll be active, and cannon fodder isn't so bad. GSF and just run to a point, cap it and run away.

    Either that, or :

    190-210

    and

    final range of

    210-220, with 210 overlapped also.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by nitr0 View Post
    to be honest it would be cool if 151-174ish bs would end up completely dead and the 101-150 would run all the time =)
    (after all this crying...)
    I'm personally counting on it. For 2 reasons:

    1. To say "I told you so"
    2. More interesting.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  7. #107
    nvm, posted in ignorance, about 50 people already got my issue.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    10-30, so no pvp for my level one and we still have Notum Repulsor twinks killing everyone as well as abusing zap nano (perks that do not require "in combat" to use and also do not damage a target will not unconceal you).

    31 to 60 will be running consistently.

    61 to 100 will almost never run, two dead levels combined equals a beaten dead level, but not sure what else could be down without extending the range to 60-100.

    101 to 150 and 151 to 175, you made 101-150 run occasionally and pretty much killed 151-174 battlestation. You seperated two large groups of BS participants meaning you crippled the population needed to start them. You will have a very hard time finding enough 151-174 tower twinks wanting to work on acquiring VP at the same time to start this level.

    175 to 214, froobs are screwed again, sector 7 twinks that would have populated a lower level get slaughtered, 207 gank toons get to spawn camp all day, leveling toons will actually not participate because they get farmed to death and just level instead of getting VP for ofab.

    215 to 220, cutting down population even further, not too much, but enough to make BS rounds slightly less frequent.

    My new suggested range is:

    1 to 24
    25 to 55
    56 to 100 (Yes a 56 twink can do fine)
    101 to 159
    160 to 200
    201 to 220

    No Notum Repulsor at the lowest BS, I do not care if you keep the minimum 10 range but that perk is way too strong to be allowed.

    The 25 to 55 range will run, that is the bulk of tl2 twinks.

    56 is the beginning of a tier of tower wars twinks and including 60's might actually get that range to run.

    Increasing the next to 159 actually includes some leveling pvmers and will help the round run more often without a major skill difference.

    160 to 200 will allow you to group the pre-SL inferno levelers as well as allowing froobs a fair battlestation to pvp in that will also run. The sector 7 twinks also need to be the highest point to include players that will be twinking into 300 ofabs and attempting ai 30.

    By putting all the shadowlevels in a single BS, it will run more often, 207 twinks can have a place for pvp outside of towers and ganking, and you will generally maintain a fair level of players due to 201+ leveling much more easily to higher or safer levels and strong gear that opens at 201+
    Almost exactly as I feel about the level ranges. Quoted the whole thing so that it hopefully gets viewed by Means too. Imo this is the best scenario overall, since it overlaps many twink ranges in almost every level-range, making it at least possible to make BS sometime run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    As far as the hardest professions to take down in mass pvp? Martial Artists and Adventurers.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMekon View Post
    abnormal? explain how that is, cuz most of us can statistically show, how soldiers are one of the poorest pvp professions in terms of both offense and defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I'm curious. Do you Martial Artists actually plan to have a thread about professionals that doesn't end in a flamewar about equipment setups? I think you're about 0/3 now.

  9. #109
    175-214

    214 soldiers with d-sharks are coming screaming over the hill to sign up for that

    I personally think 175-204 and 205-220 is better.

    I mean, no matter what range you choose for BS's, the lower levels are always gonna get creamed by the higher levels. But 175-214 is too wide a gap and 215-220 sounds a bit narrow.

    If I were to design instanced PvP, I wouldn't design it like the battlestations are, so if I have to constrict myself to the basic layout of battlestations then I don't have much more to say.
    Last edited by Wrangeline; Sep 18th, 2010 at 01:40:15.
    Veteran of Equilibrium

  10. #110

    Exclamation

    Originally Posted by Gatester
    10-30, so no pvp for my level one and we still have Notum Repulsor twinks killing everyone as well as abusing zap nano (perks that do not require "in combat" to use and also do not damage a target will not unconceal you).

    31 to 60 will be running consistently.

    61 to 100 will almost never run, two dead levels combined equals a beaten dead level, but not sure what else could be down without extending the range to 60-100.

    101 to 150 and 151 to 175, you made 101-150 run occasionally and pretty much killed 151-174 battlestation. You seperated two large groups of BS participants meaning you crippled the population needed to start them. You will have a very hard time finding enough 151-174 tower twinks wanting to work on acquiring VP at the same time to start this level.

    175 to 214, froobs are screwed again, sector 7 twinks that would have populated a lower level get slaughtered, 207 gank toons get to spawn camp all day, leveling toons will actually not participate because they get farmed to death and just level instead of getting VP for ofab.

    215 to 220, cutting down population even further, not too much, but enough to make BS rounds slightly less frequent.

    My new suggested range is:

    1 to 24
    25 to 55
    56 to 100 (Yes a 56 twink can do fine)
    101 to 159
    160 to 200
    201 to 220

    No Notum Repulsor at the lowest BS, I do not care if you keep the minimum 10 range but that perk is way too strong to be allowed.

    The 25 to 55 range will run, that is the bulk of tl2 twinks.

    56 is the beginning of a tier of tower wars twinks and including 60's might actually get that range to run.

    Increasing the next to 159 actually includes some leveling pvmers and will help the round run more often without a major skill difference.

    160 to 200 will allow you to group the pre-SL inferno levelers as well as allowing froobs a fair battlestation to pvp in that will also run. The sector 7 twinks also need to be the highest point to include players that will be twinking into 300 ofabs and attempting ai 30.

    By putting all the shadowlevels in a single BS, it will run more often, 207 twinks can have a place for pvp outside of towers and ganking, and you will generally maintain a fair level of players due to 201+ leveling much more easily to higher or safer levels and strong gear that opens at 201+
    Same, that'd definitely be the best option, from everything i have seen on this thread and on last week's, please, Means, SEE THIS

  11. #111
    Please let lvl 150 toons join the tl5 (151-174) BS. I m almost sure that lower range BS will never run.

    Most ppl atm aim for lvl 210 cause then can they join tl7 BS. for most BS its a fun break of grinding. Yoy believe that it will be better to make that lvl 215??? Dont think so.

    Few ideas for making other BS more active (wide lvl ranges isnt enough) :
    1. Let BS start with fewer ppl lets say 4 against 4.
    2. Give enough vp reward so ppl every 3 winning sessions can get a piece of ofab armor of their lvl.
    3. Let ppl subscribe for BS from everywhere (like team interface)
    4. Make BS available only for a certain time or twice a day (Lets say 8pm -10pm). Or start BS every hour. In general make ppl that intresting not to spread on whole day but force them to try on certain hours

  12. #112
    Battlestation should be only require 4 person on each side to run and.

    1-24
    25-60
    50-100
    90-150
    150-200
    190-214
    210-200

    Crat pet "office guardian" should be pet lvl 201(not 175), so it reflect it is stronger than lvl 200 pet director grade bodyguard and castable by 175 crat as written there.
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  13. #113
    Code:
    10-30
    31-60
    61-100
    101-150
    151-174
    175-214
    215-220

    I can tell right away that 175-214 will never be up and running.

    Why not stick to 151-200?
    *There isnt much "powergain" in those lvls due to TL Caps and breedcaps.
    *It will make max lvl froobs be able to participate in a battleground that is actually running, and if it occationaly runs they wont feel that they are mowed down by someone up to 14 shadowlvls above.
    *Will allso make S10 twinks more lucrative as they will be at the top end bracket of a BS aswell, same as with TOTW twinks and 31-60 brackets.
    *Currently in the game there is NOTHING worth checking out once you ding 175 and you pass 210 ish.

    My suggestion:
    Code:
    1-10
    11-30
    31-60
    61-100
    101-150
    151-200
    201-214
    215-220
    Why I think this a better sollution.
    *1-10 There are alot of people that enjoy low (1-5-10) pvp, but as it is today there is no "arena" where its natural to find other people wanting to pvp at those ranges.
    This is a nice way to introduce people to pvp at a early stage, maybe have terminal letting people sign up near subway.

    *LvL 31-60 totw toons will still be able to go to do totw while beeing best in their bracket.

    *lvl 61-100 same as above just with foremans.

    *lvl 101-150 same as above just with S10

    *lvl 151-200 This is where you guys got into abit of dilemma. This is the most active battleground and it is easy to screw up alot of stuff, yet again your chance to actually make this game fun 175+.

    Keeping the battlestation as a 151-174 will result in major downtime of BS and the reason is that S10 twinks often allso sign for "TL5 BS".
    You will now split the groups into S10 twinks BS and TL5 towertwink bs.

    I feel like the change back to this was more in fear of stepping on the current TL5 twinks toes, rather than to implement a fun and great feature for people lvling up.

    A lvl 164-174 will not be overrun by a lvl 200 the same way a 214 will destroy a 180 ish guy.


    TL;DR version.

    Don't let the QQ of a few TL5 twinks destroy one of the best ideas you have had for improving the BS!
    Fapfap - 220/19 Fixer
    Fappers - 220/22 NT
    Autoafk - 220/21 Crat
    Hisap - 220/20 Shade
    Autofil - 212/11 Enf
    Hisap1 - 211/13 Sol
    Autofap - 211/9 Agt

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    ^^ LOL some people never happy.

    ...

    Overall, thumbs up for the change.

    ...
    I love you Obtena, you are an awesome org member...but time to bring out the guns:

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=506 -- Most epic one (deal with it)
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=524 -- TL 5 isn't about wars, it's about love!
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=497 - PvP'ers don't care
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=496 - Stop Crying

    This is just for kicks, but here are some examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I'm personally counting on it. For 2 reasons:

    1. To say "I told you so"
    2. More interesting.
    Repeat performer? You told us last time, and it changed. We should 'deal with it' ...until it is changed again.
    Last edited by tharss; Sep 18th, 2010 at 05:07:28.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  15. #115
    I vote for one battlestation only with normal level ranges. Everybody and the dawg too can go PvP then.
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  16. #116
    For questions.
    1. Why is there such insistence on making BSs the source of VP? VP is more of a general use currency while PvP in AO is not really a general activity due to how things work here and unless you strip twinking in the rebalance never will be.
    2. How is the function where XP/SK goes to your pool when XP gains are turned off coming?
    3. 18.3.0 hit live almost a year ago, when will we see 18.4.0 or what will it take to get us out of 18.3?
    4. What do you see as the function of BSs and who are you expecting to participate in them?
    5. Once officially launched if the new PvP PF does not get the amount of activity you expected/wanted are you going to find some way to drag unwilling participants there too?
    6. Any chance you could add the missing expertise nanos (throwing weapons, parry, riposte & adventuring) to some of the composites?



    Regarding BSs no matter what you really do to BSs themselves with the population we have now there is just no way they will all run well so long as there are multiple BSs. Some will only run for the function of BS daily missions which in my mind is not real activity. While these level ranges are better than the last ones that won't be enough to get them all going.

    AO has 220 levels and there can be significant differences in power between chars of not all that many levels. That would be why multiple BSs exist so people can be at least semi competitive with those they would find inside. Although as there are not a lot of people to work with, that many levels and plenty of things to do it's a given some to all BSs will have activity issues. So if activity at any cost is so important you may as well just make a level 1-220 BS and be done with it.

    While the rebalance may help I can't see it fixing everything in regards to PvP in AO and BSs don't help. Here you clearly want try to introduce people to PvP in the hopes they will want to do it. Although due to the extreme degrees chars can be twinked in BSs new creds strapped players will be sent against those monster twinks and get obliterated constantly. That will not be enjoyable to most people. You need to have been playing for a good stretch to build things up to a point where you can make a solid char that could stand a good chance against PvP chars around your level.

    So as long as AO does have it's twink options PvP should really go back to being something for people to enter into when they want to, not something to get some general reward. By the time you have the means to make chars that can do well in PvP so it could be enjoyed aside from the odd items OFAB and VP can have little to no value to you anymore.

    Yes LE missions did get an increase in VP drops and common mobs there are weaker now. Although the bosses are still mostly unchanged and before that BSs saw a significant increase to their VP end reward, VP reward items on kills and BS dailies giving XP/SK, tokens and VP. So the difference in VP gains at BSs and LE missions is still astronomical. On top of that when we have AXP dailies, the upcoming APF and other APFs offering good AXP aside from farming some VP and LE types LE missions could have no measurable value before long.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Lusos101 View Post
    I vote for one battlestation only with normal level ranges. Everybody and the dawg too can go PvP then.
    yup, easier this way, and fix/tighten the 175-220 range issue.
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by tharss View Post
    I love you Obtena, you are an awesome org member...but time to bring out the guns:

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=506 -- Most epic one (deal with it)
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=524 -- TL 5 isn't about wars, it's about love!
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=497 - PvP'ers don't care
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=496 - Stop Crying

    This is just for kicks, but here are some examples.



    Repeat performer? You told us last time, and it changed. We should 'deal with it' ...until it is changed again.
    Hey, let's be clear here. I never complained about any of the changes that FC proposed. I don't think any of those things I said are contradicting regardless if the BS levels changes 1 or 50 times.

    What IS funny is that there are still people pushing for it to change. Based on what? Their NW twinks. My message is still the same.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  19. #119
    Such a shame. but i think the new proposed BS ranges will all be even less active than before any change was proposed....

    there was nothing wrong with 150-200, 200 twinks would be very scarce and even so they are not incredibly strong compared to the 170's anyway.

    People complaining about BS's being to challenging. well i beleive it is better than having no BS run at all

  20. #120
    Ranges looking much much better now. Thank you for listening for those who pointed out the flaws, specially in that 150-200 lol-range. 101-150... could be interesting for tl4 twinks, have to try some day. Good work!

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