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Thread: Friday with Means - October 1st, 2010 - Gratitude

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Taking something that's a "hope" and turning it into a promise is imo arguing semantics that everyone raves about something that's not really important anyway is just silly. It's not like there's that long left till you get to see it for yourself.
    And as a software lead on governmnet contracts I can promise you that had I said "I hope" to have something for you that the government would have expected it and when it did not come would have expected relief for failure to deliver. Those words in part of the software industry I work in mean you are making a commitment to do something.

    Given that I would have thought that some would could have Fraps 30 seconds here and there to show us. Truthfully, they should have Fraps the entire demo during the event in Oslo. Then put it out for everyone to see.

    Can't tell me that FC cannot afford one Fraps license.

    The point being baiting the players and not providing something really really erks the players.
    Lheann
    President of When I Grow Up

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    "If you find yourself loosing a fight, your tatics suck."

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Lheann View Post
    And as a software lead on governmnet contracts
    Government contracts and game development are practically the same thing...

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Lheann View Post
    And as a software lead on governmnet contracts
    Government is not even comparable to any game company, even Blizzard or EA. They are in an entirely separate field of work.

    When governments start making games, and EA makes a government.. I'm offing myself. (Mostly for the latter part as a government made game would just suck as a game, EA made government would make the Mayans come back to life to rewrite their end of the world scenario.)
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

    Hunt, and be hunted: The Hunting Grounds | Alien Tower Field :Aliens, that really invade!
    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  4. #164
    Judges often are not able to make the distinction. In legalese a contract is a contract. Any way you formulate it. And if a game developer hopes to put a game out in a certain time frame they dont do it out of their kind hearts, they want clients to stay based on that "hope". If the client fullfills his part of the contract they have to fullfill theirs.
    Gustatus similis pullus.

  5. #165
    There is no contract. The self entitlement in here is overwhelming.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by MassDebater View Post
    There is no contract.
    This.

    The only legal (and even then it's only sorta legal) thing we deal with is the EULA and that's detailing our rules not Funcoms. Funcom can sit on their thumbs for all legality cares. So long as they keep the servers on for us paying them that's that. There is no rule or law or clause in some imagined contract that states they have to talk to us, update the game, fix bugs/exploits or anything of that sort.

    We pay for the game as is. Any improvements we get should be considered bonuses.
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

    Hunt, and be hunted: The Hunting Grounds | Alien Tower Field :Aliens, that really invade!
    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    This.

    The only legal (and even then it's only sorta legal) thing we deal with is the EULA and that's detailing our rules not Funcoms. Funcom can sit on their thumbs for all legality cares. So long as they keep the servers on for us paying them that's that. There is no rule or law or clause in some imagined contract that states they have to talk to us, update the game, fix bugs/exploits or anything of that sort.

    We pay for the game as is. Any improvements we get should be considered bonuses.
    This is an extremely black and white view of the world, and you should be ashamed for being so naive.

  8. #168
    If someone important (bit more complicated, but you get the idea) in Funcom stated to one/all or some of us a statement to the effect: If you keep subscribing we will have a new engine by XX or "around XX". Especially in writing.


    And you did continue to subscribe.

    And if they didn't release an engine on XX-or if the release was deemed unreasonably far away from "around XX" by the court- then you would likely have an action in lack of performance or w/e you would call it in norwayland.

    Of course the money you would get back would be what? $300 maximum per person.


    I'm sure you could try to argue that you subscribed merely because of the words of the game director or w/e. But Funcom would counter with "We allow you to subscribe to play the game as it currently is".

    Again, I don't know what its like in Norway, but here you can be excused for "lying/misrepresenting" under the guise of "marketing fluff". (within reason). Therefore I don't think arguing that marketing saying things like "come join a constantly evolving world" will be persuasive enough to convince the court that a reasonable person would subscribe under the condition the engine be released at a certain time.


    I think you will find that FC have made no mention anywhere of the speed/quality/content of their updates anywhere in regards to time frames or promises. And using that as some marketing lure to get you to subscribe.

    Obviously you have to look at cases/legislation etc to be sure, but you would not have a very strong case.

    Oh and finally, I think the court would be reluctant to rule in your favour because of the precedent of companies like FC being forced to some kind of time frame with updates...or force legal action and compensation.
    Last edited by MassDebater; Oct 7th, 2010 at 05:00:12.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  9. #169
    They actually stated it would be done this year. Not "hoped" or anything like that. Flat-out said so.


    Not that it matters. I'm sure none of us wants to sue them about it. If we get dissatisfied enough, we'll cancel our subscriptions, which will hit them a lot harder than attempted legal action.

  10. #170
    /popcorn

    A handfull of people rebuilding an intire game, I am sure the AO team have picked up that giving dead lines apart from the normal content through the year is, at best, a big gamble.

    Look at it this way, its 2 years closer to a release, than it was 2 years ago in FC terms.
    "Death is as big a part of life, as life it self".
    First wizard, Sword of Truth.


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  11. #171
    at what point can we get some pics or a small movie about the new engine??
    all im hearing is bunch of words. no real evidence.... well exept those movies on youtube made in 2006..
    Rylourne 220/21 enf

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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMacdk View Post
    /popcorn

    A handfull of people rebuilding an intire game, I am sure the AO team have picked up that giving dead lines apart from the normal content through the year is, at best, a big gamble.

    Look at it this way, its 2 years closer to a release, than it was 2 years ago in FC terms.
    But it needs deadlines, what happened to Duke Nukem Forever is that they never had deadlines, and no pressure other then the playerbase.

    And I fear that AO do something similar, not that bad because they don't have Broussard, but I wonder who, besides us, are following this seriously, AoC and TSW seems to be the focus here. I think it need a date when Means and the team says "there, it's stable, it's compatible, we've done enough, let's release v1".

    About legal limbo,I only found the privacy policy, maybe you get to read the sales policy when creating an account, otherwise there is only the EULA. None of them will mention "Whatever Means write on Friday will be done or you'll be reimbursed.". In fact it's pretty much the contrary.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    This is an extremely black and white view of the world, and you should be ashamed for being so naive.
    Go figure.

    Someone who wants to throw in all mixes and matches of shades of grey to get what he wants thinks simplicity is akin to naivety.

    Facts are simple, they state things; like, the Earth is a sphere. You don't just say "Omg what a black and white view because you don't leave your mind open to the possibility that it's a torus". Fact is fact.

    And the fact in this case is that Funcom is under no legal obligation to provide us with any content other then what was advertised at the time we agreed to pay them. Seeing as we continually pay that advertised content is constantly updated - however if they so choose to not update content they can choose to do that and legally speaking they've done nothing wrong and are in no breach of any agreement or contract so long as they continue to provide us with the content that was advertised at the time of payment that we agreed upon. This is also why you don't just get things like LE or LoX for free when they come out, they're extra additions to the game not advertised in the original sale price and cost extra.

    Simply because you want them to be held to such an absurd requirement doesn't mean you get to just dismiss facts and throw in a bunch of random things that pertain little, if at all, to the matter.
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

    Hunt, and be hunted: The Hunting Grounds | Alien Tower Field :Aliens, that really invade!
    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    Go figure.

    Someone who wants to throw in all mixes and matches of shades of grey to get what he wants thinks simplicity is akin to naivety.

    Facts are simple, they state things; like, the Earth is a sphere. You don't just say "Omg what a black and white view because you don't leave your mind open to the possibility that it's a torus". Fact is fact.

    And the fact in this case is that Funcom is under no legal obligation to provide us with any content other then what was advertised at the time we agreed to pay them. Seeing as we continually pay that advertised content is constantly updated - however if they so choose to not update content they can choose to do that and legally speaking they've done nothing wrong and are in no breach of any agreement or contract so long as they continue to provide us with the content that was advertised at the time of payment that we agreed upon. This is also why you don't just get things like LE or LoX for free when they come out, they're extra additions to the game not advertised in the original sale price and cost extra.

    Simply because you want them to be held to such an absurd requirement doesn't mean you get to just dismiss facts and throw in a bunch of random things that pertain little, if at all, to the matter.
    You're putting words in my mouth, attempting to say I want to bring legal action into this. Come back when you have a real argument.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    Facts are simple, they state things; like, the Earth is a sphere. You don't just say "Omg what a black and white view because you don't leave your mind open to the possibility that it's a torus". Fact is fact.
    Get your facts straight. Earth is not a sphere.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    You're putting words in my mouth, attempting to say I want to bring legal action into this. Come back when you have a real argument.
    What else am I to do? I am discussing legality, you post in rebuttal of me, thus I have to assume you disagree with my view on the legality in this situation.

    If you have no desire, as you so say, to bring legal action into this: why respond to me when I am discussing legal? If you don't agree with my view but don't want to discuss it.. why post anything in response to me at all?

    Right. Because despite what you're saying now, you wanted to illicit a response from me.

    It's the basics of forums, of any discussion, responding to someone generally causes them to respond back. For someone labeling others as naive I should hope you already know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Get your facts straight. Earth is not a sphere.
    Sphere-like.
    Enter the Information Age
    Proc Descriptions

    Hunt, and be hunted: The Hunting Grounds | Alien Tower Field :Aliens, that really invade!
    Pet argo management: Servants Protection | Expand the Notum Silo :Make it worthwhile


    Rimor
    Tesgri - 220|17|58 (Omni Agent)
    Leara - 220|25|62 (Omni Doctor)
    Ponygirl - 220|25|56 (Omni Bureaucrat)
    Means: "We have done way dumber things than this..."

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    It's the basics of forums, of any discussion, responding to someone generally causes them to respond back. For someone labeling others as naive I should hope you already know this.
    It's hilarious that you still apparently have no idea why I said you were naive. Keep digging your hole!

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Get your facts straight.
    Get your facts round.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



  19. #179
    gosh, you guys still defending FC, claiming they didnt broke any word by failing to deliver 32 weeks after means "hoped" to get us a new video, 2 or 3 years after initially the new engine was supposed to be out ( yes, im aware they scratched ogre in between thus a longer wait time )

    im not saying FC is all bad or something, but a fail is a fail, and if not managing to fraps a 1min vid in 32 weeks time ( when "hoped" to do it in 3 ) aint a fail, then theres none fail on earth at all
    The most obvious MB on Rubi-Ka
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  20. #180
    *shrug* I won't defend that at all, it's just some people tried to make out that there is a contract issue and that they can sue FC.
    This was what I was wearing. Tell me I asked for it

    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Soldier reflects just flat out need to be much stronger all the time (70%~ at level 220 at all times...)
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowgod View Post
    the day our pets last forever, like yours, is the day your reqs will be lowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    To be fair, you are lucky the mods are as forgiving as they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    your an idiot



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