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Thread: Announcement Concerning a New Anarchy Online In-Game Store

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    My concern, however, is that selling VP so PvMers don't have to do PvP is one step away from selling weapons and armor so PvPers don't have to do PvM.
    It's selling power, by selling VP you sell the whole LE-shop content.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    We have indicated at several points and in several posts throughout several threads that these buff cans are designed to be used for twinking purposes only, and not for combat.
    Good basis. More than that, i'd be to make these usable in shop/BY playfields only, and lost on zoning to avoid any exploit of them. I don't know if that's possible nor wanted, but i'd be glad.
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Maldek View Post
    If AO is to remain a subscription based game - it is vital to get the new players "hooked" up in the complexity and beauty that AO is. First impression counts.
    Yeh...also making WA etc less of a ghost town by adding more terminals, stones, access-ports, terminals etc would help. You basicly enter a DEAD game as for now...and fire those potent guards hm!

    It's good that new players meets advanced players and can make friends at the start.

    I still have friends I met in totw, which is kinda fun.




    Quote Originally Posted by Uaintseenme View Post
    Personaly i wouldnt, But for the sake of argument, why would someone pay money for vp that can ONLY be redeemed for ofab, when they can instead buy credits that can buy them Ofab AND anything else they want.

    Make Penultimate/MK6 easier to get than RK armor/weapon thats in the shops instead?

    Added suggestion here as to how to increase availabillity.

    Thats exactly why (intentionally) ofab is there, for lesser advanced players and totally new players (plenty download and try, too many leave)...then special editions and similar can be at high prices/harder to get so the BS don't go void for people. I do however like the idea to focus content on level ranges...50-100-150-210+

    Very fun ranges in the current game-system and disable xp-option

  4. #264
    Means,

    I am a player who left the game a year ago, after several years playing. I have one 220, one TL6, and a dozen TL5 toons. I am almost entirely interested in PvM, and perhaps hooked on the complexity of the twinking and configuration that is possible, and more interested in exploring than grinding.

    When I left the game, it was because I felt that the focus and content expansion at the time were focused on primarily PvP, and that (through the VP system) FC had basically dictated that only players who could gather VP would have an advantage end-game, for both PvP and PvM. Specifically, some weapons, nanos, and OFAB pieces had/have no equivalent outside of VP, and PvP was the only viable method of obtaining large amounts of VP. On top of this, the perk system introduced an extraordinarily large timesink into the game, the only exciting part (imo) of which was global research which is over; again, a huge time investment to stay competitive. I simply decided that (a) I would not loaf around BS to leech VP, in part as a matter of consideration to my fellow players who like PvP, (b) would never get there by AI mission VP drops, and (c) did not have the time to grind out 70 levels of research at 220.

    I returned recently just to say hello to some old friends, and have been debating staying in the game. Perhaps not surprisingly, the Age of Conan game has recently introduced a number of new advancement, armor, and buffage features that are similar to some under discussion here, and have generally been very well received in that game.

    This discussion has, to me, some interesting points:

    First, the VP issue: I do not object to buying VP, and don't think it will "ruin the game". I would however like to see FC examine additional, alternate, methods of earning VP. IMO, FC should examine PvM content aimed at the VP market. A quick example: make RK missions give VP instead of credits or XP. Make RK mission boss loot scalable, and include VP. Create froob-able RK instances that award VP. I bet not many folks run RK group missions compared to, say, two years ago..

    Second, the buffage: I have, finally, a stable of most of the buffing professions, but my reaction is more to support this option to save the aggravation of doing this just for twinking. I suggest that, in addition to preventing PvP during the buffs' effect, you also consider having a very short time frame on the buff effectiveness; maybe 5 minutes? If you need more time than that to twink, well, you need more cans..

    XP option: It has been available throughout the game, in the form of crats, rings, faction, and armor. Anything that will relieve the 200-220 grind somewhat is ok by me. Again, it would be considerate to make said XP "potions" drop in-game once in a while, even if rarely.

    The "instant 199" option also sounds good to me, although I am curious how that will be implemented (restrictions on how many, for example). Again, this was implemented in AoC with great results, little or no effect on the game, and results in folks learning other professions that they would not otherwise try.

    Also: It is clear to me, returning after over a year's absence, that the population overall is down despite the influx from DNW. FC could also examine which other instances and end-game raids are very much more difficult now with a lower population. As a neutral player, I haven't seen an open Beast raid or higher Alien Playfield raid in the month or more I've been back. If the response is "u r noob for being neut", say so; I think that having an active and healthy neut faction is part of the game, but if it's getting written off due to declining population, or becomes impractical for the same reason, let me know before I hit 200 on my next toon ;P.

    My 2 cents.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxi View Post
    Yes that is the impression I get as well. I would not pay for a toon that is easy to level fast if desired but I would I would buy a froob agent buff monkey. Maybe they will allow the purchase of froobs who knows. If money for FC is the goal then they should consider it. Purchasing utility toons would be worth it to me.
    Oh yeah, those are really handy. I have one that's 167, can roll lvl 200 missions and does all the major RK FPable buffs without outside buffs. Also have another at lvl 101, a 150 something fixer and some others. Of course if they allowed that it'd really cut into their buff can sales.

  6. #266
    atm i feel that FC is trying to rip me off. I paid for LE and now they expect me to give them more money because they refuse to add a decent source of VP in the pvm part of the game? It's a slap in the face tbh. The daily BS mission was nice and added a good VP boost that rewarded PVPing. And instead of adding a rewarding method in PVE they just took the easy road of VISA.

    All the good stuff is being undone because of this.
    Freedom or death!
    Anything then being an Omni Tek Corporate slave!

    Created 2005-11-16 (paid main that's all mine )
    Created 2005-02-03 (froobie)
    Created 2007-10-11 (second paid account because i wanted a freaking shade :P)

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by omegahealer View Post
    atm i feel that FC is trying to rip me off. I paid for LE and now they expect me to give them more money because they refuse to add a decent source of VP in the pvm part of the game? It's a slap in the face tbh. The daily BS mission was nice and added a good VP boost that rewarded PVPing. And instead of adding a rewarding method in PVE they just took the easy road of VISA.

    All the good stuff is being undone because of this.
    You want VP for items that are largely going to be yesdrop. So you can buy them with your credits from other players. You're actually going to be better off than you were. You don't have to buy a single VP.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    You want VP for items that are largely going to be yesdrop. So you can buy them with your credits from other players. You're actually going to be better off than you were. You don't have to buy a single VP.
    not to mention that daily bs mission has a very nice vp kick to it. so you not only get some nice xp, but a bigger chunk of vp...

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by omegahealer View Post
    atm i feel that FC is trying to rip me off. I paid for LE and now they expect me to give them more money because they refuse to add a decent source of VP in the pvm part of the game? It's a slap in the face tbh.
    Why? LE was sold as a "PVP Booster/Expansion", the fact that there is even another way to get VP is just so that everyone can potentially get some.

    You cant go claiming youre feeling ripped off because you dont want to PvP for the PvP rewards.
    Omutb - President - Ring of Destruction

    If you only knew the power of the Frosted Strawberry Poptart....

    "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead." - because Wales just isnt a country

    Chernobyl, providing the freshest bottled water since 1986, for that healthy green glow.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    Why? LE was sold as a "PVP Booster/Expansion", the fact that there is even another way to get VP is just so that everyone can potentially get some.

    You cant go claiming youre feeling ripped off because you dont want to PvP for the PvP rewards.
    The point is moot. Making ofab YES-DROP is the ultimate way to make it a PvM reward since PvM is the only way to make credits.

  11. #271
    I like seeing that FC/AO staff is trying to make changes to ensure the future of AO.

    I have played many F2P(item shop) games over the last 6yrs or so and they do quite well. There are a few concerns with them that I would like to point out, especially considering AO did not start out as this model and I don't think intends on going fully F2P.

    1: Most F2P games start with good intentions then end up becoming P2W(pay to win). This is because they start adding items to the cash shop that are exclusive... most notably is capes and armor/weapon enhancing items. Basically what has to be done here is to make sure all character enhancing items available though the cash shop are also obtainable though general game play (VP).

    2: Sell-able cash shop items. This brings about a direct correlation between in-game money and RL money. This is all around bad as it cripples the in-game economy and makes it so thous who pay reap the largest benefit in the shortest time frame. If you plan to sell VP for cash and make OFAB yes-drop you will essentially to exactly this. For me it has to be one or the other.


    If I think of anything else I'll add to it.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    Why? LE was sold as a "PVP Booster/Expansion"
    Except they didn't sell it as a PvP expansion and it's not. LE was just the first time they added actual PvP content since NW, and just look how well the primary PvP addition in it (BSs) worked out on a whole. FC billed LE as much as or more of a PvM product as a PvP product and if you look at all the general use or PvM content with LE tags there's more you could call PvM than PvP.

    LE missions, Dread camps, research and the much greater part of what you can buy with VP are PvM related, general use or only gained through PvM which accounts for the much greater part of the new content in LE. All PvP got was some mostly empty identical BSs, orbital strikes and air strikes, two turrets, a new tower and to some extent the mechs. Although mechs are used for social, travel and in at least some PvM as well.

    So no, LE is not a PvP expansion. It's just an expansion that had some new PvP content, that's it.

  13. #273
    I'm all for increasing AO's profits. However, I don't believe the proposed store would be maximizing profit. I want AO to be around for a long time and to do that it needs to be profitable.

    So, here are my suggestions for what to do with the store that would be much better for the profitability of AO.

    Don't sell things that sacrifice long-run profitability for short-run profits. Long-run profitability is much more important than short-run profits, as I'm sure everyone is aware. This doesn't rule out selling everything. Here's what you could sell that I don't believe would hurt long-run profits.


    1) Tokens:
    You can still sell tokens. I don't believe this will affect the game in the long-run negatively. I don't believe anyone is so proud of how many tokens they've farmed that they will quit and you will lose their subscription revenue if you offer these. Also, as population decreases, this in itself causes more players to quit because the game isn't as fun with less people and it lowers the new player retention rate as these new players don't want to play in an unpopulated world. This is an MMO after all. So, every small decrease in population causes even more future reduction in population, decreasing the possible subscription revenue, in-game advertising revenue, and revenue from the in-game item shop! So, avoid losing population as much as possible to maximize profit.

    2) Experience Constructs:
    Fine, no problem. Again, letting people level a bit faster is unlikely to cause a lot of people to quit.

    3) Reset Points:
    Selling reset points is fine. Again, this doesn't seem to negatively affect any aspects of the game.

    4) Past Social and Veteran Items:
    Sell the ones that people don't really have a problem with, don't sell the ones that cause a lot of uproar and may make people quit. I don't know a lot about social items but you can read through the many posts about the in-game store and figure out which social items people really don't want you to sell.

    Another option might be that when you are wearing any piece of "replica" equipment at all, a small glowing green ball appears above your shoulder, or something like that. Just some effect that is unobtrusive but visible to other players. The effect might even look kind of cool in its own right, and it would make it very obvious that they hadn't "earned" at least one of the pieces of social they are wearing. Nevertheless, they still get to look cool and some people like social armor because it looks cool, rather than as a status symbol. With this, people would still want to buy social armor because it looks cool, and those that like social armor because of its "status" are appeased.

    5) Time Limited Access Passes:
    Sounds good; great way to bring some froobs into the fold.

    6) Pre-Packaged Buff Items:
    These "Nano Canister" things would probably be fine. Again, just don't sell the unique interesting things that people are really against, i.e. the Trader GMS tool etc.

    7) DO NOT Sell Levels (At least, in its current proposed form... Read on for my proposal):
    Selling levels will at least somewhat decrease how many people there are playing at the lower levels. This will decrease the retention rate of new players if they can't find teams or experienced people to help them and will anger some people and cause them to quit, again losing out on more revenue.

    HOWEVER, what you could do instead is let the Experience Constructs scale up a LOT more in how much extra experience they provide. These would of course scale up in price too. This would still allow people to level amazingly quickly. However, don't let these higher level experience constructs be usable until some level, say, level 45. This way, the players that want to use these still have to go through the lower levels and new people will be able to team with them and learn from them, etc. This would allow for a greater retention rate of new players. The fact that the players that buy these high XP constructs still have to go through the lower levels at normal speed and still have to go through the higher levels (albeit at a blindingly fast speed) will also anger other players less, causing less people to quit. Also you might want to make it so these aren't usable past level 200.

    8) DO NOT Sell Victory Points (At least, in its current proposed form... Read on for my proposal):
    A lot of people value PvP in this game, and a lot of people don't. Selling victory points will definitely cause some people to buy them and then not PvP in BS anymore. BS is already in a fragile state, and this will increase the time that BS is dead which will discourage some PvPers and cause them to quit.

    HOWEVER, what you could do instead is sell something similar to Experience Constructs but instead it greatly increases how many victory points you win in BS, either as a percentage of the amount won or a static + to all BS matches. This would ensure that no one will completely stop doing BS and would therefore not decrease BS's downtime as much. This is also more palatable to many players as people would still have to work for their VP so less people will quit.

    Definitely do not allow people to buy victory points and make Ofab Yes-Drop as this means people can turn money into credits. This will cause some people to quit. It might be okay to make Ofab Yes-Drop if you use my "VP Construct" instead of buying VP. People would still have to work to get the VP to sell the Ofab and this is again more palatable to many players. This would also probably greatly increase how much BS runs as farming BS to sell Ofab would be more worthwhile with a greater rate of VP gain. It would also improve the PvP in BS as, with Ofab Yes-Drop, people would bring out their best toons to PvP with. Better competition is more fun for PvPers.


    So that sums it all up. I hope people read this, I know it's a lot.

    Edit: Added an idea for social armor.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Nov 17th, 2010 at 02:40:28.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    ...
    Well said, I agree!

    A few things to add from myself:

    * Selling levels: getting levels is an accomplishment and games like AO are a lot about accomplishments, an indication of how good you're playing.
    The conversation "- Hello, how are you? - Good, I'm level 109 now!" is one example of how defining levels are. The situation where one person says !ding and 5 people answer 'gz' is another obvious example of how important the accomplishments of levels are. Also having x number of 220's is often used as a status symbol.
    You really want to sell this for money, making the accomplishment less valuable? (I guess this could be partly solved by making an indication on ones profile that he bought the level: this states that this person accomplished nothing (except maybe having a good job in real life ) and that he might not know his prof yet.)

    This accomplishment-argument also holds for tokens and vp. I often enough hear people bragging about how many tokens or vp they got.

    The accomplishment factor is something you guys have been forgetting about way too often (thought that's not really the topic here), daily missions being so easy to get tons of xp being one example. Sure you might get a lot of lazy people whining that they want this and that (because they also want the accomplishment but are too lazy). That doesn't mean you just have to give them everything for free taking away all the accomplishments.

    This is the last sentence containing the word 'accomplishment' in my post .

    * Selling VP: SELLING VP IS SELLING POWER. Promising to not sell power and immediately break this promise is not very nice, but I assume you didn't realize. You're selling some nice armor, some nice nano's and immediately give a way to turn money into credits to buy everything else they might need. Yesdrop basic ofab is a good idea btw, but selling vp is totally not. Same applies to tokens; selling tokens also is selling power and very very wrong. It's not as COMPLETELY wrong as selling VP though .

    * Don't sell too cheap. It might be tempting to put a low price on things so that a lot of people buy it. You should realize how game breaking this can be. This rule merely applies to buff cans: people should only buy them if they are very desperate so that you don't take away the social aspect. Sad thing is that it's exactly those desperate people that bring in most of the money (e.g. 5M for 131) so thank you for taking these away from me. But well, it brings in some money for you, so that's fine (and there should be some left for me too). Another thing where this rule is important is the leveling packs in case you absolutely must put them in. Make them expensive enough so that most people prefer leveling the proper way and that there actually still is leveling going on.

    That's it, sorry for the long post. I really hope FC reads this and tries to take it into account.
    Last edited by Edta; Nov 17th, 2010 at 01:41:00.
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Edta View Post
    Same applies to tokens; selling tokens also is selling power and very very wrong. It's not as COMPLETELY wrong as selling VP though .
    How you figure that one?

    Both VP and Tokens give you power, both are accessible, and both will(/may) be available to buy for real cash.

    I fail to see how one is COMPLETELY wrong, implying game breaking, while the other is just bad and well it can be there but we don't like it..
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    How you figure that one?

    Both VP and Tokens give you power, both are accessible, and both will(/may) be available to buy for real cash.

    I fail to see how one is COMPLETELY wrong, implying game breaking, while the other is just bad and well it can be there but we don't like it..
    See my post above for why selling VP is game breaking (in that it will likely lead to a lot of lost population) and selling tokens isn't.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    See my post above for why selling VP is game breaking (in that it will likely lead to a lot of lost population) and selling tokens isn't.
    The basic idea is that, because nobody brags about tokens, that selling them is fine.

    So selling power is totally okay so long as people don't brag about it.

    That's bull****, and you know it.

    For starters who brags about how much VP they have? Sure you see a few people talk about how much they have but are they really using it to act proud (/brag)? You see a few people talk about how many tokens they have to, but you don't seem to think they're acting proud and bragging about them. So where's the bragging about VP? Where's the statements that if people have more VP then them they'll rage quit the game?

    From what I see the main issue people have with selling VP, beyond selling power, is it means PvM cannon fodder doesn't have to go to BS and let PvPers slaughter them.

    Selling tokens is identical to selling VP, it's selling power.

    That some people brag about one and not the other doesn't mean anything.
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    The basic idea is that, because nobody brags about tokens, that selling them is fine.

    So selling power is totally okay so long as people don't brag about it.

    That's bull****, and you know it.

    For starters who brags about how much VP they have? Sure you see a few people talk about how much they have but are they really using it to act proud (/brag)? You see a few people talk about how many tokens they have to, but you don't seem to think they're acting proud and bragging about them. So where's the bragging about VP? Where's the statements that if people have more VP then them they'll rage quit the game?

    From what I see the main issue people have with selling VP, beyond selling power, is it means PvM cannon fodder doesn't have to go to BS and let PvPers slaughter them.

    Selling tokens is identical to selling VP, it's selling power.

    That some people brag about one and not the other doesn't mean anything.

    That's nowhere close to anything I've said. Did you actually read my posts? No, whether someone brags about tokens or VP doesn't matter at ALL.

    All I care about is if the proposed changes are game breaking. I want AO to survive. To me, something is game breaking if it significantly hurts the ability of AO to survive. Letting people buy VPs is game breaking because it could reduce the population significantly, which really hurts the ability for AO to survive. Letting people buy VPs does this because then less people go to BS which means BS runs less often. There are plenty of people that play AO ONLY to PvP. If BS, their main source of PvP, stops running they will quit AO.

    I don't think anyone is going to quit AO if all of a sudden people can buy tokens. Therefore, buying tokens doesn't hurt AO's ability to survive.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Nov 17th, 2010 at 03:51:50.

  19. #279
    So you don't care about selling power you just care about the possible lose of cannon fodder.

    So because tokens don't provide fodder they're okay but VP isn't.

    That closer?
    Last edited by Siyra; Nov 17th, 2010 at 03:56:36.
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    Yet you seem to think that, because some people do flaunt their VP they'd quit over it being offered and thus you shouldn't do that.
    Are you serious? READ what I said about VP! I don't talk about people flaunting their VP at all! I don't expect them to quit over it being offered. I expect PvPers to quit because their main source of fun, BS, stops running because less people do it since they can buy VP instead. It isn't the act of offering VP for sale that makes them quit, it's the consequences of that offering.


    Edit: Ah, I see you have actually read what I said now and edited your post. Selling tokens is fine because it doesn't affect the game in any way other than that some people now have more tokens. Selling VP isn't fine because it means more than just some people now have more VPs. Selling VP means that BS runs less and people leave the game, reducing the population.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Nov 17th, 2010 at 04:05:35.

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