Friday with Means - November 12th, 2010 - Changes large and small

[Hulk]

Don't try and justify a stupid idea by FunCom, with a breach of the EULA.


Two wrongs don't make a right

Breach of eula or not, it's been happening every day for years and years and will continue... imo FC should be getting that money. but whatever, i just think its funny how this "indirect sale of credits" is all of a sudden a big deal when a direct sale of credits and levels is happening as we speak.

[Windguaerd]

Don't try and justify a stupid idea by FunCom, with a breach of the EULA.

Two wrongs don't make a right

He is correct, two wrongs don't make a right. Well there is plenty of wrong going on here, assumptions, /rage quit threats, panicking due to the "end" of their gameplay and on and on and on....

Looks like most of the people crying foul are not thinking about the larger picture. The right choice, is to actually wait and see how things develop.

FC wanted an items store earlier than you guys could imagine, and so did Means... but he wanted to do things the right way, as balanced as possible.

Some of you aren't even thinking straight, that a new player can have a 199.... ok so where did he get the 220 he needs to even get the 199? out of thin air?

He would have to have it powerleveled properly, he would need either friends ingame willing to help him grind, or have a LOT of credits to hire NT's and Heck teams to help him... still he would need more than the basic knowledge a new player has when he joins AO to even know how to powerlevel, where to do it, and how to do it.

He would also need at least SL to get to 220.

Alright, so somehow a new player as a 220 (let's say a week), now he can get a 199. He buys tokens, there goes his shiny tokenboard (which he could easily get through dailies, but let's see this evil cash cow in action). Wait! he needs armor, he buys VP and has a full set, now all he needs are symbs, a weapon, belt, ncu, a ton of nanos, needs to learn the profession, still has to do a ton of quests for the real good stuff, has to get inferno boots, and also pande ring, among other things.

Could this new player miraculously have a well geared 220 and 199 in a week? I highly doubt it. Powerleveling his first 220 will cost him a lot, and he will be gimp as hell even buying tokens and vp, his 199 will also be gimp. Getting the gear for both would still take weeks, if not months.

So where is the magical shortcut to an uber 220?

Now what I see here, is that if this happens... that guy will have dumped a lot of cash for a somewhat ok start, but he will still have PLENTY of work ahead of him. And that cash will go to the development of the game, which benefits all of us.

I got over 50kvp on my enfo, I DO NOT PVP, all from PvP Daily. I join bs, get in a turret and cover B, that is what I do mostly.

So non-PvP'ers will also benefit from selling OFAB gear.

The only issue I see with the item store is the "buff" service/item, which I won't judge until I actually see it in action and learn what actual impact it has on the game instead of going "Chicken Little" like so many have.

[Alternity]

Breach of eula or not, it's been happening every day for years and years and will continue... imo FC should be getting that money. but whatever, i just think its funny how this "indirect sale of credits" is all of a sudden a big deal when a direct sale of credits and levels is happening as we speak.

It don't make it right, you can't justify a point by having your argument based of something that is illegal.

[Hulk]

It don't make it right, you can't justify a point by having your argument based of something that is illegal.

Sure it does and sure I can...

My point is clear, credit selling is inevitable whether FC gets the money or some credit seller company gets it.

But the fact is you are likely to see such a watered down vp market that it wont even be a profitable market like you guys are thinking. Yea I'd like to see somone try to make good creds this way... do you realize how much vp people have already amassed? lolz

[Alternity]

Sure it does and sure I can...

My point is clear, credit selling is inevitable whether FC gets the money or some credit seller company gets it.

But the fact is you are likely to see such a watered down vp market that it wont even be a profitable market like you guys are thinking. Yea I'd like to see somone try to make good creds this way... do you realize how much vp people gave already amassed? lolz

Your argument is moot

[Hulk]

I have no counter argument so I'll just say something like You're argument is moot, yea that sounds good lolz fail

-fixed

anyway
These people would likely just buy creds from a seller instead of buy vp and sell ofab in game. haha seriously come on now use ur brain.

[Alternity]

-fixed

anyway
These people would likely just buy creds from a seller instead of buy vp and sell ofab in game. haha seriously come on now use ur brain.

I believe in principles, you should try that yourself someday.

[Hulk]

I believe in principles, you should try that yourself someday.

So now I don't have principles because i am being realistic? lol come on now. you are just being slightly naive here and kind of ignorant.

I never said credit selling was ok... I said it is inevitable.

I also mentioned that VP will be worth a whole squat. So good luck to these people who think they have a get rich scheme buying vp with real life cash and selling ofab...

Get it through your head, nobody is going to be using real life money for creds unless they are directly buying creds from a credit seller because vp will be worth jack ****... get it?

[Ixal]

The thing is, with all the people here who whinge about the game changing.

If you haven't played any MMO outside of AO, I can see why you'd persistently cling to old and aged mechanics, but the reality is that the MMO market constantly evolves and changes and the focus centers much more on convenience and user-friendliness.
This isn't just because of WoW kiddies wanting easymode. It's primarily because gamers are growing up and getting jobs, relationships and careers and have less time available to spend on timesink MMOs. AO is one of the more time consuming games out there, no one can deny that, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It still has to change to remain competitive. It can still remain a challenging game but timesinks that serve no other purpose and issues with user friendliness (like tradeskilling, implants, overall UI, starting experience and learning curve) just have to go if AO is to maintain its playerbase, or god forbid, see growth in the future.
This is a raw fact. The market changes and the games will have to adapt to it. I used to be one of those people who would whine when something was changed in this direction, now with a busy real life I fully understand where the need for this comes from. Microtransactions and item shops have been found immensely successful in pretty much all games that implemented them. Any step towards the AO team getting more resources to further improve the game is a great step in my book.

[JediMindTricks]

The thing is, ... a great step in my book.

You mean that pretty much sums up your game experience since june 2010?

When you have a unique selling point like AO and you undermine it with selling out then pointing to other game with successful micro transactions fails to address the real issue here.

Besides have a good look at the games with successful micro transactions and tell me that you want AO to be like that.

[Hulk]

lol guys stop with the forum join date talk... does it reflect how long you have been playing? I know for a fact it doesn't.

[Ixal]

I've been playing since 2008. My main account's subscription is currently inactive and it doesn't let me use the forums.

[Ilikethongs]

Well, looks like I made the right choice of not coming back to this god-forsaken game. There is no right way to permanently cripple a game. The only reason AO still exists is because of the hardcore players who remained loyal throughout the years.

The idea of insta-199 is the kill pocket tanks, we get that. But how will new players level? There's not enough new players left to even find ado hecks teams. Today's AO population generally splits in to two: froobs and 220 w/ alts. I can't remember the last time I met someone in game that has expansions but no 220. Even if there's a few people who don't have 220, what's to stop their friends from pocket tanking or themselves logging on to a friend's account to pocket tank himself?

The game needs a whole lot more than just quick fixes and bandages. The fundamental problem with this game is that it's aging, dying, with no publicity or advertising. I STILL see EVE Online advertising on many website, but where's AO? The opportunity is there, especially when there's pretty much no sci-fi themed actual character-centric MMORPGs out there. Sorry, piloting a damn upgradable ship doesn't qualify. Where's the publicity and marketing campaign to repopulate the game? Oh wait... the game's graphics engine is too aged to attract latest gamers. Well, instead of devoting resources toward gimping this game permanently and drive away hardcore, loyal, and paying players, how about start a marketing blitz to get new froob players, and try to complete the graphics conversion ASAP, and when the conversion goes live, offer free month, but irreversible upgrade to all froob players, with 10% additional discount for those who commit one year subscription?

Stop wasting our time, and yours.

[JediMindTricks]

lol guys stop with the forum join date talk... does it reflect how long you have been playing? I know for a fact it doesn't.

Then maybe post a little less off topic?

My argument stands (not the one about join date... )

[Hulk]

Then maybe post a little less off topic?

My argument stands (not the one about join date... )

Who is posting off topic? We are discussing real money for in game power and I was pointing out how it exists and is thriving already, so whats the real issue here?
I'll tell you. the real issue is that people have spent time working in this game leveling, collecting vps, etc., and now it's all being given away. That thing you worked so hard to achieve which once had real value, is now being reduced to a quick transaction.
Kind of like how the game already is in terms of credits, alien armor, power leveling services and ebayed characters.

[trousers]

All the doom saying comes from comments such as,

we can't afford to ignore a possible revenue source

immediately 'Slippery Slope' comes into play. And based on FC's track record panic is well justified among the ranks.

[Dredd]

I really really don't get all the excitement over this- especially without a full picture (re: pricing etc...) On the one hand, people say "You shouldn't let people buy levels- it's so easy to level nowadays- you can get to 200 in two days anyway." If it's so easy to level then what's the big deal with someone buying a toon already there? Is there inherently more honour in joining an OST team or sitting on kite hill- so you can say you "worked" for it?

People are concerned about there not being anyone to team with at low levels anymore- as if someone blitzing to lvl 200 in a few days is going to be sticking around to team with and help out newbies...

I don't understand why people would object to someone having that option- it's like BEING level 220 is the ultimate goal of the game and there's nothing before that. Hopefully you're playing the game because you enjoy it and aren't just playing to get to 220. If someone has already been down that road at least once and has a 220, why should they be forced to do it again to try something new at a higher level. Why should someone be forced to do this the "long way", so that it's "fair". It sounds like people object to others being boosted in level because they somehow "get ahead". That's true if your only goal is being a higher level. Hopefully people enjoy playing the game at whatever level they are. If your main objection is "No Fair!- he bought his way ahead of me and his level doesn't represent his work!"- then you may be playing for the wrong reasons as well. Yes, I get the status of certain things, but is buying levels from Funcom so much different than buying them from an NT/OST?

(Kiting NT's out of a job? not likely- depending on pricing it might be better to pay an NT anyway)

The idea of insta-199 is the kill pocket tanks, we get that. But how will new players level?

So you're saying leave the pocket tanks so new players will have someone to team with? You really want newbies teamed with tank teams- power leveled beyond their knowledge in a few hours? If someone with a 220 is powerleveling a new twink- they're not helping or teaming with newbies- if they are, they're doing more harm than good. 220s actually helping out newbies as they level a new toon can still do that.

As for the twinking nanos- I would hold off the panic until seeing what it costs. I don't know that it'll render all buff toons obsolete. If it costs $20 for a pack of buffs, I'm sure people would rather look around for a real Doc/Enf/Trader/Agent etc.. before dropping the VISA. Also- for everyone that's threatening to quit because they fear their buffing income is about to disappear, I know of others who've spent hours on the shopping/OOC channels looking for that wrangle/SFA/NS etc.. and just logged off after a couple of hours being unable to find it. I don't blame them. If they at least had the option to get a buff another way, they might still be playing.

Selling VPs for credits isn't going to work- or at least not as massive long-term income.

I also mentioned that VP will be worth a whole squat. So good luck to these people who think they have a get rich scheme buying vp with real life cash and selling ofab...

Get it through your head, nobody is going to be using real life money for creds unless they are directly buying creds from a credit seller because vp will be worth jack ****... get it?

This is exactly it. There are probably millions of VPs in circulation right now, and while it remains to be seen what it might be worth, it won't be huge- certainly not enough to be insta-buying endgame loot with it.
Also- for people worried about credit sellers using BS to farm VPs to sell OFAB and sell credits to players- that won't work as an economic model. VPs do not generate in-game cash, like selling to a shop for example. Credit sellers cannot make money long term by selling stuff to other players. Credit sellers need to sell stuff to shops to create in-game cash- like the Ingot Craze of a few years ago... (if you can sell OFAB armor back to shops- then you have a credit seller's farming scheme)

[sultryvoltron]

All the doom saying comes from comments such as,



immediately 'Slippery Slope' comes into play. And based on FC's track record panic is well justified among the ranks.

Slippery Slope combined with Game-Dillution seems like a terrible combo.

[Onack]

I rarely post in FWM, but I enjoy reading them, but not this one. Really dont like people are gonna be able to buy a preleveled toon. I enjoy leveling toons, but if this comes there wont be anyone to level with. Buying VP is something I dont see why should come, nanos are already yesdrop and armor will become yesdrop. Rest of the needed VP could be gotten from LE mishes easy. Else keep up the good work.

[Ilikethongs]

Another thought.

I just now read numerous "Which MMO should you play?" guides hosted on major media hubs such as www.ign.com. Guess what? They all ignored AO. No doubt many of the games listed there received free publicity, and at the very least got a few more players to try them out (at least the free portions).

In the mean time, AO receives ZERO media coverage. No media coverage, no advertising, it's no wonder we aren't getting any more players.

Talk about potential revenue sources, since AO has a fairly robust RP community, as well as people who value social armors, how about working with major CPG companies who wish to tap in to the MMO market for advertisement with branded social armors? I can definitely see people wearing Mountain Dew or Coca Cola themed back armor. Maybe randomly changing certain wall textures in OA, Rome, or other population centers, to branded graffiti, to start a city-based RP daily?

You can implement all kinds of interactive advertisements while implementing new content. Get creative with how to involve non-player revenue sources. Funcom pioneered in-game advertisement with froobs, since AO is all about rebelling against a corporation, tying real corporate themes wouldn't even seem nearly as out of place as, say, an orc carrying a bag of Fritos.