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Thread: New Soldier Nano Changes!

  1. #61
    I feel this is a move in a different direction, most good and little bad.

    I'll list it just like Kintaii did:

    1. Glad to see reflects not being overwritten
    2. Heal delta + healing seems to be a new path/future
    3. 80% is a good final value I believe
    4. I think Ocene said it already, base reflects when TMS/AMS is done high pretty high at TL7 especially...50% reflects would be a decent value when ams/TMS is down
    5. Giving others more reflects is always nice, and a legit reason to team to team in BS rather then ("rrfe please")
    6. 50% time on TMS/AMS is fine, as long as there is a high base value when down (Soldiers should always have reflects up, and a tiny bit more when down - a good thing FC did)
    7. 4000 max health at TL7 really brings in line closer with strong PvM single target tanking and PvP survival
    8. 60% hp, 20-25% taken away. 30% is 1/2, and really takes away from the purpose
    9. Phalanx/AC buffs were never a big deal, so odd how they changed it
    10. Should have never affected LONG-term hots, only short
    11. Soldiers can tank multiple targets...interesting
    12. FAT is no longer cool
    13. AAO buffs in one line, guess it makes sense
    14. GLAD there are SMG/fling buffs
    15. Don't see why RK damage buffs were increased, but I guess throwing froobs a bone never hurts
    16. Glad to see "fight" stacking properly
    17. On the general note - Positive to see nanoskills lowered, gives trox more viability and other breeds more IP to put elsewhere

    I was pissed at first when I thought of only 50% (60 second) TMS/AMS, and then I thought about it. It really makes makes sense, and overall generally positive buffs. Don't know how much better Funcom could have down, I'd give it a 9.5/10 on success.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  2. #62
    13. AAO buffs in one line, guess it makes sense

    wtf? aao buffs in one line with keeper/crat add off/def (team) auras?

    it makes sense that soldiers are the only prof which wont get the benefits from a keeper/crat team aura ? ....i don't think so

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Yeah I mean cuz ppl only hit soldiers once, then they lay down their weapons.

    Yes, of course. People do caped hits on soldiers every 2 seconds, my bad.

    And actually if you took say a hit of 2200 from an as/fa/sa/dimach before it will now be 3300 after the nerf. Or 3600 ish if you use the big hp.
    Yeah and game will change only for soldiers and for no one else.

    Newsflash!!! AS is getting nerfed, so are other specials. You will, at best, get capped hits from other soldiers and agents only.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    The heal is over 80 seconds i think but its pretty irrelevant as its so small.
    It's not a heal. It's 120 seconds of +80 heal delta. So if you take a setup like Berinda's AR soldier (simply because it's the first soldier setup I came across quickly in this thread) it's 182 HD under AMS which equates 3640 healed under 80% reflects and an additional 7280 over the next 80 seconds after AMS goes down. And by the time it ends AMS is back up.

    If you take her heal delta setup that's 165+80=245 HD which equals 4900 hp regained under AMS and 9800 gained after AMS dies.

    You've essentially gained a 100% up +80 HD buff. Frankly, that kind of HD is enforcer status and it's far far far more effective when only 20% of the damage is getting through.

    At least that's how I'm reading the doc. Cant find anything that says HD buff doesn't start upon cast of AMS.
    Last edited by Kopecz; Nov 13th, 2010 at 02:18:10.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    It's not a heal. It's 80 seconds of +80 heal delta. So if you take a setup like Berinda's AR soldier (simply because it's the first soldier setup I came across quickly in this thread) it's 182 HD under AMS which equates 3640 healed under 80% reflects and an additional 3640 over the next 40 seconds after AMS goes down. Frankly, that kind of HD is close to enforcer status and it's far far far more effective when only 20% of the damage is getting through.
    Yes its healdelta, semantics ftw.

    "IT" is 80 HD so the addition is 3200 HP over 80 seconds at 2 sec tick, existing HD we already have cant be counted as some "New" benefit.

    3200 over 80 seconds is almost nothing at 220, especially compared to the loss of 40 seconds at 87 (80) reflects.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Yes its healdelta, semantics ftw.

    "IT" is 80 HD so the addition is 3200 HP over 80 seconds at 2 sec tick, existing HD we already have cant be counted as some "New" benefit.

    3200 over 80 seconds is almost nothing at 220, especially compared to the loss of 40 seconds at 87 (80) reflects.
    No. It's 4800 over 120 seconds, 1600 of which occurs under 80% reflects. Any way you slice it you're going to be healing for more under AMS and your personal healing has increased when AMS is down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  7. #67
    In other words.. you'll see a lot of soldiers sitting...

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    No. It's 4800 over 120 seconds, 1600 of which occurs under 80% reflects. Any way you slice it you're going to be healing for more under AMS and your personal healing has increased when AMS is down.
    You are correct it does last 120 seconds.

    Its still negligible.

    That whole 4800 can be less than 1 hit.

    The boss I tanked a short while ago was hitting for 6-7k a hit with AMS down. I didnt actually count the interval, but even if it was the slowest ass boss in AO it could manage 1 hit every 10 seconds.

    In a 2 minute period with the new AMS that would be an extra 20k damage ( 40 seconds * 6k at 10 secs per hit - 4 * 1k with AMS up). So subtract this amazing HD addition I get and thats 15,200 extra damage. And thats at an interval of 10 seconds where its more likely 3 or 4 seconds per hit....

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Thanks for the lesson. Its so kind of you to give us hints. Apart from the errors, consider your comments with regard to PvM and consider how many of those "benefits" apply there.

    Perhaps you can explain to me why Soldiers get enforcer health and str/sta buffs? While those might be "nice" things what reason is there for giving them to soldiers? Hey lets give em mochams too and roots why not....... perfect way to destroy how this game has been since inception.
    80% heal eff or 80 HD, its still nice. Stop trying to nitpick about healing being crappy like someone who has never actually pvp'd before. Taunting also seems incredibly useful in pvm for a tanking prof, but what would I know, I only have an enforcer and an MA that are both built 100% for tanking.

    Although I missed the little 1 health thing on the top max health buff, I don't see anything stopping you from using and cancelling the 3500 now do you? You guys wanna keep QQing about a %HoT that can be manipulated using actual though beyond burst FA and AMS, then I would be more than happy to take it for my enforcer. Send back those max health buffs while you are at it.

    Stop complaining, you could have had it a heck of a lot worse and all you guys want to do is gripe.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Shye View Post
    13. AAO buffs in one line, guess it makes sense

    wtf? aao buffs in one line with keeper/crat add off/def (team) auras?

    it makes sense that soldiers are the only prof which wont get the benefits from a keeper/crat team aura ? ....i don't think so
    this

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    80% heal eff or 80 HD, its still nice. Stop trying to nitpick about healing being crappy like someone who has never actually pvp'd before. Taunting also seems incredibly useful in pvm for a tanking prof, but what would I know, I only have an enforcer and an MA that are both built 100% for tanking.

    Although I missed the little 1 health thing on the top max health buff, I don't see anything stopping you from using and cancelling the 3500 now do you? You guys wanna keep QQing about a %HoT that can be manipulated using actual though beyond burst FA and AMS, then I would be more than happy to take it for my enforcer. Send back those max health buffs while you are at it.

    Stop complaining, you could have had it a heck of a lot worse and all you guys want to do is gripe.
    80hd in exchange for 40 seconds of AMS? Excuse me if im not opening the champagne.

    And if you'd bothered to read my post you might have worked out that I dont think Soldiers should get what is in reality iBehe. Nor do I think Soldiers should be getting better taunts than enforcers.

    And hey guess what I have an enforcer too and I cant say I was happy about their changes either.

  12. #72
    You get benefits from crat/keeper aura the same way a fixer or agent benefits from a soldier damage aura. The better one overwrites the lesser ones.
    Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Shye View Post
    13. AAO buffs in one line, guess it makes sense

    wtf? aao buffs in one line with keeper/crat add off/def (team) auras?

    it makes sense that soldiers are the only prof which wont get the benefits from a keeper/crat team aura ? ....i don't think so
    Quote Originally Posted by Matik View Post
    this
    I disagree with "this".

    Soldiers have one of the highest current game attack ratings. Sure, they won't get the increase from keepers (not sure if crats with retain their AAO yet). So what? It is a nerf for PvP teaming, every other time won't really see a change. Soldiers have enough Attack rating for PvM, and usually even against evade professions in PvP.

    Think about that. Every time you see a nerf, don't complain just because it is a nerf. That will make you look foolish. This only helps team pvp in very situations where that little extra AAO mattered...oh no!!! Lets all complain now.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  14. #74
    Soldiers will now always be able to run their basic reflect nanos - These will no longer be over-written by their emergency reflect nanos (AMS/TMS).
    It's a nanochange right? Just making sure it affects agents too

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    If you take her heal delta setup that's 165+80=245 HD
    According to the numbers in game, it'll be 265 on Wen and 203 on Beri. It's totally awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocene View Post
    In other words.. you'll see a lot of soldiers sitting...
    I hope they fix sitting heal delta while in fights. Its absurd anyone can heal massively by sitting down while getting shot at.
    Last edited by Berinda; Nov 13th, 2010 at 07:58:36.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  16. #76
    If I understand the math correctly, the only possible scenario where the HD makes up for loss of reflect is when we are not being attacked. In general these changes mean we will die faster at all times save the 30s of emergency hot if AMS is up. Obviously I'm not thrilled, but overall I'm disappointed.

    These changes seem to have no affect on the professions we have trouble with(good docs excepted). The only possible justification I can think of is that I don't know exactly at this time what will be done to all the problem professions.

    I am 100% sympathetic to the angry soldiers, in any context that matters(combat), when applied to the current game, this is a very bad nerf.

    (I play a 220 sold, and am referring to pvm/pvp at that range.)

    edit: I could also care less about ibehe..it's already outside buffable...thanks for saving me a minute at oag when i do symbs....?
    Last edited by NJBreed; Nov 13th, 2010 at 10:37:23.

  17. #77

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by NJBreed View Post
    when applied to the current game
    I keep telling you guys not to do that. :\ Quit it. Bad. No banana.

    I really wish someone would start compiling information from *all* of the sheets we've released so far and so people can start comparing information based on *those* contexts, not in the "in this document we suck compared to how everyone else is on live right now" sense. :|
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Init Buffs: This nanoline no longer buffs initiative types that Soldiers do not use (Nano Init, Melee Init, Physical Init).
    Soldiers do use nano init, though..
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by tharss View Post
    I disagree with "this".

    Soldiers have one of the highest current game attack ratings. Sure, they won't get the increase from keepers (not sure if crats with retain their AAO yet). So what? It is a nerf for PvP teaming, every other time won't really see a change. Soldiers have enough Attack rating for PvM, and usually even against evade professions in PvP.

    Think about that. Every time you see a nerf, don't complain just because it is a nerf. That will make you look foolish. This only helps team pvp in very situations where that little extra AAO mattered...oh no!!! Lets all complain now.
    well
    what about the add def ? we also lost the add def from this team auras

    and no i don't wanna cry , pvp always solo without a team...i just don't understand that point of the changes, thats all
    if they remove ams...yeah why not, i can understand...but if they remove "team buffs" which benefits ALL but not the soldiers...itz not...i don't understand^^
    Last edited by Shye; Nov 13th, 2010 at 11:30:54.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Wtb heals, coon, acrobat perks, blockers and all active defences only available 45% of the time. And just as easily prevented by debuffs.
    I would just like to point out that bio cocoon is only available 25% of the time.

    Dance of Fools - 61%
    Nullity Sphere II - 33%
    Nanobot Defense - 20%
    Dodge the Blame - 15%
    Evasive stance - 13%
    Bio Regrowth - 10%

    Blockers - 70% of the time vs 1 person, 0% of the time vs two or more
    Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher

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