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Thread: New Soldier Nano Changes!

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Soldiers do use nano init, though..
    Exactly, ubt while trying to cast AMS is not fun.

  2. #82
    u can still cast it reasonably fast though, move ur slider to full agg. and wham.
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Send back those max health buffs while you are at it.
    Seems more like the soldier community providing feedback. I would agree tho, take away the max hp buffs please, I already get hit for HUGE caps with 20-22k hp... so now my cap will be higher and I'll have less reflect... but I'll be able to sit down a lil better.

    PS I was already able to get just about 30k hp on a soli for "tanking" situations.
    Gaveup 220/30/80 Smg

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    No, it's two 15% percent hits for a total of 30%.



    It's an emergency button, not something to be used constantly.
    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Wasn't sure about pvp dmg and %hits.
    As for the second one: I was just answering to someone pointing out that the nanocosts are too low when compared to other professions increased costs which I personally regard as fine since we don't field substantial nanopools, nanodelta and ncr.


    edit:
    Regarding the Healdelta/Heal discussion: Those 80 healdelta are nothing to scowl at, obviously, but I begin to miss the old omhh. It is 208.3 HPS if spammed, 6250 heal over the course of 30s. Quite comparable with the top emergency heal which heals a 25.000 HP soldier for 7500 (- 2 seconds of zero reflects).
    Any chance of adding it back? To sidle along the Last resort line, a true One-more-hit healing with, say, 1000 healed on a 10s cooldown ( about half as effective as nowadays omhh ).
    Last edited by Ikarus; Nov 13th, 2010 at 13:31:04.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Vurtuoso View Post
    Exactly, ubt while trying to cast AMS is not fun.
    Attack time: 1s
    Recharge time: 1s

    You won't have to worry about nano init debuffs anymore. With the exception of the 3 debuffs and the detaunts any nano has 1s cast time. Those have 3 seconds though so hardly makes a difference.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarus View Post
    Regarding the Healdelta/Heal discussion: Those 80 healdelta are nothing to scowl at, obviously, but I begin to miss the old omhh. It is 208.3 HPS if spammed, 6250 heal over the course of 30s. Quite comparable with the top emergency heal which heals a 25.000 HP soldier for 7500 (- 2 seconds of zero reflects).
    Any chance of adding it back? To sidle along the Last resort line, a true One-more-hit healing with, say, 1000 healed on a 10s cooldown ( about half as effective as nowadays omhh ).
    The big thing you're forgetting is that there is no more nano-skills inoperative from casting mirror shields. And once the shield does come down, instead of having to spam something like the old OMHH and lose your offense, the new heal delta is helping you along - not only that, it's still chugging while AMS is up.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    Attack time: 1s
    Recharge time: 1s

    You won't have to worry about nano init debuffs anymore. With the exception of the 3 debuffs and the detaunts any nano has 1s cast time. Those have 3 seconds though so hardly makes a difference.
    The current cast time on ams is 0.25s so that's an increase. 1s cast time means you need 400 NI to instacast it at full def. If you get ubted with 400 NI it will take 5.25s to cast it at full def. You can get enough NI to insta it even with ubt running if you set up for it, but saying that soldiers don't have a use for NI is wrong...


  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    The current cast time on ams is 0.25s so that's an increase. 1s cast time means you need 400 NI to instacast it at full def. If you get ubted with 400 NI it will take 5.25s to cast it at full def. You can get enough NI to insta it even with ubt running if you set up for it, but saying that soldiers don't have a use for NI is wrong...
    Uh wow.. never sleep and post. O.o Remembered a longer cast time on AMS. Well UBT alone if you have a infused compiler on should be NP. It's the procs and unremoveable stuff and those hopefully will be done away with.

    I quite agree about NI on OS though. It's a highly demanded buff by doctors too. I'll quite miss the NI on it.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    The big thing you're forgetting is that there is no more nano-skills inoperative from casting mirror shields. And once the shield does come down, instead of having to spam something like the old OMHH and lose your offense, the new heal delta is helping you along - not only that, it's still chugging while AMS is up.
    I am not forgetting it. This is why my proposal has a much lower hps than todays omhh ( about half of it ). I actually don't really care about the total amount of healing but more about the loss of active nanos. Yes, omhh is seldom worth the offset. Sometimes you can delay the use of AMS and heal the lost HP up with perks while it is running. That obviously just works for few mobs and situations.
    Because I can't see in the future it is hard to say that we have too weak defenses or need tons of more healing. But we do get full nanocasting ability - for a single nano on 3-5 minutes cooldown. Casting taunts while AMS'd is nothing new. Would simply be fun to have something additional to do with said new freedom. The absence of stuff like this was basically the only disappointment in the document.
    Regarding the numbers I already stated that the healdelta is nothing to scowl at, especially since it can be maintained permanently. But I'll return to the argument of not-seeing-into-the-future and therefore I can't predict what the mobs we fight (alone) will be like.
    My gripe about the loss of omhh is less about power than fun.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed To Whom it May Concern.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Soldiers do use nano init, though..
    MPs use ranged init and melee init... So?
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  11. #91
    This nano will, at highest level, give back 60% of the Soldier's HP, but on the nano's end it will take *away* 30% of the Soldier's health during two one-second ticks. During this time the Soldier's reflects will be set to 0. Local cooldown on this nano is 3 minutes. This nano is in the same stacking line as the Fixer short-term HoT and will overwrite nanos within that line.

    _______________________

    It takes away 30% the remaining HP or 30% of Max HP? What happen when it gives me 60% of HP, and I lost 31% of the HP during b4 the nano end? When I am @ 29% Hp & the loss HP dot kicks in, if it takes away 30% of Max HP I gonna die on my own nano?
    Ceenah 220/30/66 PvM NT @ Newcomers Alliance
    Eeenah 199/0 Froob NT @ Newcomers Alliance

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenah2 View Post
    This nano will, at highest level, give back 60% of the Soldier's HP, but on the nano's end it will take *away* 30% of the Soldier's health during two one-second ticks. During this time the Soldier's reflects will be set to 0. Local cooldown on this nano is 3 minutes. This nano is in the same stacking line as the Fixer short-term HoT and will overwrite nanos within that line.

    _______________________

    It takes away 30% the remaining HP or 30% of Max HP? What happen when it gives me 60% of HP, and I lost 31% of the HP during b4 the nano end? When I am @ 29% Hp & the loss HP dot kicks in, if it takes away 30% of Max HP I gonna die on my own nano?
    You won't die of it, you will end up with 1 HP.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceenah2 View Post
    It takes away 30% the remaining HP or 30% of Max HP? What happen when it gives me 60% of HP, and I lost 31% of the HP during b4 the nano end? When I am @ 29% Hp & the loss HP dot kicks in, if it takes away 30% of Max HP I gonna die on my own nano?
    30% of your max HP.
    It can't kill you, it'll set your hp to 1 if you don't have enough hp.

    And it seems that engie stole our init buffing, other profs are left with one init to buff with.

    Also note that less debuffs will stack, no one knows how research will work but ubt and crat debuffs doesn't stack. That one guideline of this balance patch as we have seen so far.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by boltgun View Post
    And it seems that engie stole our init buffing, other profs are left with one init to buff with.
    They merged three engineers buff into one - a self ranged init buff, a target ranged init buff, and a pet inits buff. But it is teammate/pet only.
    Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by quieter456 View Post
    They merged three engineers buff into one - a self ranged init buff, a target ranged init buff, and a pet inits buff. But it is teammate/pet only.
    they can use it on themselves as well its a targeted buff, but it will also buff the engi's pets with it EVERY time they cast it, regardless of the target.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    80hd in exchange for 40 seconds of AMS? Excuse me if im not opening the champagne.

    And if you'd bothered to read my post you might have worked out that I dont think Soldiers should get what is in reality iBehe. Nor do I think Soldiers should be getting better taunts than enforcers.

    And hey guess what I have an enforcer too and I cant say I was happy about their changes either.
    You won't need 80 seconds of AMS in the future. Just to clarify for you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Loucretia View Post
    Soldiers AMS has been nerfed from 120 secs to 40 secs, with (probably) lower reflects and a what 2400 hp hot over 80 seconds?
    1:20 is 1 minute and 20 seconds, so yes you do need my "hints" apparently.

    If all you can do is compare the current state of AO to these changes then you might as well quit now. The fact is FC wants soldiers to kill people, and is giving you tools to do so which are useable during the new TMS/AMS.

    Stop complaining about changes that you are not grasping properly, and stop pushing off benefits as if they are nothing just because you do not want them.

  17. #97
    Again, I understand other changes are in the works, for those with difficulty grasping the point of view of the soldiers not happy about these changes I will attempt to clarify the facts as i see them.

    35s of higher AMS (what we lose) >>>>>>>>> 45 HD (you have to take into account the +35 HD removed from TCS.)

    Also, give us a break, ofc people will be upset even if other changes are in the works....FC timetable has to be taken into account....

    Really tired of seeing non-solds in here "dude this is awesome, i'll be able to kill...er....you guys really need those changes....". Transparency slider past 100%? Someone /petition...

  18. #98
    Not sure why all the (negative) fuss about the changes. I, for example, see this as a nice improvement for my lowbie tl5 soldier. Might actually level it up to 200 or something.

    Same goes for engie. Unless they make MP changes really awesome, then I think I'll stick to MP still.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  19. #99
    When you examine the nano document you see that:

    Neutral:

    Soldiers gain a small bit of HD, but loose the % heal effeciency that once came with AMS. Overall, I'd say this evens itself out.

    Soldiers gain passive reflects but as it seems we will loose % reflect from items, this will even itself out.

    Positive:

    Soldiers will gain 4k HP. Stop talking about 30k HP because most endgame soldiers with ACDC and OFAB in key slots still just have 21-23k HP. This will put an endgame soldier using OFAB and some CC/CSS at 25-27k HP

    Negative:

    Soldiers lose 7% or more AMS reflects. Just from times when I've been mildly drained and have had to use AMS 3, I know that that after 40 seconds of DD from many profs, a soldier will be at about 60 to 80% HP with this reflect nerf.

    Soldiers also lose 50% of AMS time while downtime remains the same. Since almost every prof can easily do 25-30k PvP damage in 10 seconds or less, let alone 40, soldiers will be forced to use the emergency HoT whenever it's up, which isn't that often.

    Undecided:

    A HoT that is designed as a "last resort" but will inevitably be used constantly just to resist being killed within a minute of any PvP encounter.

    It heals 60% of a soldier's HP in 30 seconds, but takes 30% of that back and leaves a soldier without any reflects which could result in them taking another 5 to 25% damage depending on the timing of the other player(s) around.

    My opinion:

    Enfos got a nerf to their HP, but they recieved a nice huge team absorb to deal with that.

    This HoT is going to leave soldiers high and dry due to the reflect piercing effect and the long cooldown on it.

    I would prefer a 2nd option that could be chosen instead with an 80s cooldown: a weak HoT that would heal 30% of a soldier's HP over 30 seconds and take 10% back over the next 5 seconds.

    I would also think that instead of the reflect piercing effect, the emergency HoT and DoT should just lock out AMS so the sold cannot recast AMS till they've given back 30% of their HP.

    Or: scrap the HoT and just have AMS on a 40/20 cycle. 40 seconds up, 20 seconds down. The soldier should survive to cast AMS a 2nd time, but will be low HP and will likely die in the 2nd AMS or shortly after. Sounds fair to me.

    With the rebalance and the loss of 500 or more AR on AI perks, and the loss of the AS swap, soldiers are going to have a hard time killing anything in 40 seconds.

    As for RI: GTH and BR got nerfed and rightly so. I think the only way to make RI fair would be to make it into a general 20 to 35% heal effeciency debuff. Agents have been expecting a nerf to RI for a long time and while one may believe that they will have other Mimic options that are appealing other than doc, one soldier with RI around will turn Mimic Doc into a vastly inferior option, and soon very few TL7 agents will be using doc. Most PvP soldiers have admitted that RI is unfair and have called for a long time for it to be nerfed.
    Last edited by Questra; Nov 13th, 2010 at 21:55:10.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Not sure why all the (negative) fuss about the changes. I, for example, see this as a nice improvement for my lowbie tl5 soldier. Might actually level it up to 200 or something.

    Same goes for engie. Unless they make MP changes really awesome, then I think I'll stick to MP still.

    god stop trolling yes we know you play MP and MPs are bad right now but thats no excuse to go around SUPPORTING every single nerf everyone else is getting, god!!!
    Last edited by heartless888; Nov 13th, 2010 at 21:50:06.

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