Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 209

Thread: New Soldier Nano Changes!

  1. #141
    and another fail from FC
    Imno "Ubermensch" Angel 220/30/70 MA
    Revengeof "Jiltedthief" thegankers 220/30/70 Agent with ultimate smacktalk skeelz Retired
    Obeywhat "Elmayra" says 220/24/70 Doc with 275k+ Alien kills
    [Tnet] Manicmouse: bring back the I WIN button, cos omni really need help
    Reading doesnt change who you are but what you will do
    IM GRAMMATICALLY AWESOME

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    The Soldier AMS buffs now have a heal-delta buff attached; this buff will last 3x as long as the AMS buff itself.
    So anything under level 175 gets no compensation for this nerf or is there anything else planned there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    The maximum amount of reflect Soldiers can now receive is 80% - Reflect will be removed from items in the future to remove scenarios where players have been able to receive over 100% reflect values.
    Do you realize that the low reflects that say a tl5 soldier will have, 65% isn't nearly enough to keep him alive against anyone? High dd classes will just kill the soldier straight up and then move on to the next one. In fact they already do through the current tms. It just takes them a bit longer giving the soldier a chance to do something to them in some cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    The total amount of time AMS/TMS could be running on a Soldier prior to the rebalancing was 66% of the Soldier's playtime. This has been reduced to 50%.
    But that is only true for level 215+ soldiers, isn't it? In fact eveyone else has an uptime ranging between 48% and 33%, 44% at tl5. Or is the nano document faulty?


    Last but not least. Which classes do you see soldiers being able to kill in a duel situation or a 1 vs 1 general pvp situation with osb's after these changes go in game. Before the opponent kills the soldier that is.

    Cheers.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Well, go ahead and tell me which class a soldier can kill inside 40 seconds today in a real 1 vs 1 situation. AMS is already the most easily circumvented defence. Root and run if you need to. OR if you happen to be a class with roots just cast and recast those and use los until it's down and then alpha the helpless soldier.
    Roots which last a shorter time and probably more removable with free movements that also lock themselves from being cast again for quite a while.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Well let's see. 3 sec cast, that's insta for a soldier normally. But it's going to be a bit tougher with ubt running. So it's going to be a question of who gets what off first. And if it lands the soldier needs to do 30k+ pvp damage inside 10 seconds. Today that would be possible with as/fa swap. But after the big nerf who knows. 7500 from fa and perhaps 7000 from burst x2.
    But where are you getting the other 15500k pvp damage from inside that 10 second window.
    This is ofcourse assuming no reflects at all on the doc.
    Could be a close fight, specially with the healing nerf that funcom has yet to reveal, you may not need to use the debuffs to kill them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    Well, we need to be able to kill them before ams goes down. I seriously doubt their defences are going to get nerfed at all. Noone has even mentioned that. So.. We won't win.

    What I'm saying in general is that for a soldier to be able to kill anything everyone elses defences have to be nerfed similarly to what ams/tms was. And so far nothing has even come close to that in the other nano docs. Which leads me to belive that it's not happening. We shall see. Well. Those who will still be in game when this hits live will see.
    Not at all sure about the nt thing... even now it comes out as pretty even 1v1 against my fixer, I can occasionally kill them before they get their second nuke off but some times I can't.

    With the removal of reflect peircing double/triple and higher HP, I don't really see why soldiers shouldn't have an equal chance of taking them out.

    And some others defenses have already been reduced such as CiB and Deceptive stance going from 1minute 20 second durations to 30 seconds duration with over 3 minute lock out granted still have acrobat perks but we still havn't seen mechanics changes or second run over perk documents or many of the item changes not to mention still plenty of prof docs left to go.
    Last edited by Xenotric; Nov 15th, 2010 at 13:16:44.

  4. #144
    Quick fact, NT in def focus (so w/o piercing nuke) can usually survive 1 min 20 toe to toe with a solja, so if you consider new AMS duration any NT with today toolset would easely outplay any solja. Of course NT toolset gonna change so we ll see . . .

    What i d like to see to be able to judge if solja's defense has really been nerfed or not is to see someone calcing their healing power within an AMS cycle (up and recharge), counting heal delta, new perk change, fact that trox nanobreed gained some heal, those new nano %HoT, the use of OMHH since there are no nanoskill shutdown anymore if i understood correctly, etc.

    Sounds like a very big improvment in the healing department to me ? Anyone to run the calcs ?

    Adds in the virtual HP to the equation for comparaison (30K HP solja, 45% static reflect = 43.5K virtual HP roughly). So that a 200 HP tick form heal delta would actually heal 290 of their virtual HP. It would be even more with the 80% reflect on, etc.

    This should give a rough overview of the true healing power, while capping hit are still unknown (capped hit thru reflect break the above reasonning).

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Quick fact, NT in def focus (so w/o piercing nuke) can usually survive 1 min 20 toe to toe with a solja, so if you consider new AMS duration any NT with today toolset would easely outplay any solja. Of course NT toolset gonna change so we ll see . . .

    What i d like to see to be able to judge if solja's defense has really been nerfed or not is to see someone calcing their healing power within an AMS cycle (up and recharge), counting heal delta, new perk change, fact that trox nanobreed gained some heal, those new nano %HoT, the use of OMHH since there are no nanoskill shutdown anymore if i understood correctly, etc.

    Sounds like a very big improvment in the healing department to me ? Anyone to run the calcs ?


    Adds in the virtual HP to the equation for comparaison (30K HP solja, 45% static reflect = 43.5K virtual HP roughly). So that a 200 HP tick form heal delta would actually heal 290 of their virtual HP. It would be even more with the 80% reflect on, etc.

    This should give a rough overview of the true healing power, while capping hit are still unknown (capped hit thru reflect break the above reasonning).
    The extra HD that is smaller than it seems since 35 hd was removed from tcs and the hots and such will do nothing against heavy alphas or high dd. They will help against classes with low dd. That is all.

  6. #146
    I ll try to explicit my feelings on these nanos, bare in mind I ve never had a sold over TL3. (but that doesnt stop me to read)

    * lots of typo / scaling errors in the documents. About what buffs are self, what buffs are target(fling, SMG..).(or the +27 STR/STA on several nanos)

    * the idea of removing the NSD from TMS is nice, it opens possibility to cast RI or the HOT.

    * HOT seems a tad high. But the main issue with this nano is the 2 sec at 0 reflect.
    Why :
    * atm, when a NT double/tripple a sold, the reflect is negated for everyone else attacking the sold, that's already a poor design, but it lasts 1 sec, and the NCU indication + lag is often enough to make synchronisation hard.
    * with the -15% HP hitting the sold, the attackers will have a huge indication on when to launch the alpha, considering the reflect ripper is still active for 1 sec.

    * Why nerf the reflect auras in target level but not the single reflect? RRFE line could be target level locked too...

    * AC buff are very low in NCU and no level check on target... intended ?
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    * AC buff are very low in NCU and no level check on target... intended ?
    They removed the level lock on engineer AC buffs too, suggesting they'll be more important come rebalance. They also reduced the NCU usage by 2 points, huzah.
    Nerf 219 Shadow lurking Agent
    Markerz 220 Scented Engineer
    Cruellia 164 Villain Bureaucrat
    Bender 76 Shiny metal Agent

  8. #148
    The problem with a soldier's suppose "secondary" defense is more than the fact that it's easy for most profs with AS or FA to cap through it.

    The problem is relative. It's that everyone else at NW and in BS has RRFE 90% of the time since there are so many soldiers in this game.

    When a fixer buffs someone, it doesn't increase their evades by 30%.

    Same with enfos and HP.

    I didn't support this previously when it was called for, but I think it's time for RRFE to be self only. If soldiers are going to have to make due with such a weak "secondary" defense 50% of the time, I think two things would make this balanced.

    1) Place the 30% PvP cap before reflects in terms of damage calculation.

    2) Make RRFE self only so that if you aren't teamed with a soldier and in close proximity to one, other soldiers aren't going to have to deal with all of your existing defenses as well as 66% of our own passive reflects.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless888 View Post
    he sucks compared to any trox def enf lol but all troxes just wanna MR gank with 1hb and 1he alphas so def enfs are rare.the only illusion that *def enf* exist is called having towers and 12 man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    II have yet to find one enforcer I can't beat. Trox or otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Questra
    Agreed
    Yep. 3 soldiers that agree that enfs aren't hard to kill. Also say goodbye to that mythical trox def enf with 4k def that is unhittable by soldiers after Wit goes bye-bye.

    Stop comparing every other prof's current pvp abilities versus soldiers post-rebalancing pvp abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    The problem with a soldier's suppose "secondary" defense is more than the fact that it's easy for most profs with AS or FA to cap through it.
    Since AS is getting reworked that leaves Fixers and other Soldiers that will be able to cap you, and depending on how that AS rework goes you might include advys with the -slight- possiblity of landing a decent FA on you. 3/14 is an acceptable percentage of profs that will be able to do -significant- damage under reflects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    The problem is relative. It's that everyone else at NW and in BS has RRFE 90% of the time since there are so many soldiers in this game.
    Then argue for self RRFE, not more personal reflects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    Enfos buffing someone's HP doesn't increase their survival by 30%. (Paraphrased)
    Nope, it lowers it b/c of stupid game mechanics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    1) Place the 30% PvP cap before reflects in terms of damage calculation.
    Not unless 30% cap applies before layers as well again. Since that's not gonna happen, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Quick fact, NT in def focus (so w/o piercing nuke) can usually survive 1 min 20 toe to toe with a solja, so if you consider new AMS duration any NT with today toolset would easely outplay any solja.
    Seriously?
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Seriously?
    Well, obviously.

    However, the question is, what will NT do, once NS is over and once NBG after-effect kicks in. Kill soldier with perks and nova AS swap?
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    It would seem that most soldiers in the current game don't believe in using debuffs. I however see a problem with this, as yes - without the debuffs enforcers will reliably evade our full autos and be unperkable to PU perks.
    I thought PU perks checked duck as the weapons usually check duck explosion but I was incorrect. Although I see this as irrelevent as you do have 80 seconds in which to land those perk debuffs and use your all out offensive as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    Same, though fights with the best enfos usually last until my AMS is down. Let's see what chance a soldier has vs an enfo when AMS lasts half the time.
    I'd love to pvp your post balancing Soldier with post balancing nanos with my pre balancing Enforcer. It might actually be a fair fight for once.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    The problem with a soldier's suppose "secondary" defense is more than the fact that it's easy for most profs with AS or FA to cap through it.

    The problem is relative. It's that everyone else at NW and in BS has RRFE 90% of the time since there are so many soldiers in this game.

    When a fixer buffs someone, it doesn't increase their evades by 30%.

    Same with enfos and HP.

    I didn't support this previously when it was called for, but I think it's time for RRFE to be self only. If soldiers are going to have to make due with such a weak "secondary" defense 50% of the time, I think two things would make this balanced.

    1) Place the 30% PvP cap before reflects in terms of damage calculation.

    2) Make RRFE self only so that if you aren't teamed with a soldier and in close proximity to one, other soldiers aren't going to have to deal with all of your existing defenses as well as 66% of our own passive reflects.
    Bump. RK reflects self only. The rest will have to make do with grafts from now on.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I'd love to pvp your post balancing Soldier with post balancing nanos with my pre balancing Enforcer. It might actually be a fair fight for once.
    A good enf will last the entire ams just like Q said. And then usually die with the soldier at 50% hp or so. Having half the ams duration and taking 53% more damage under ams will have a very crippling effect on the soldier to say the least. The % of the time he will be stunned/feared/blinded under ams will be massive compared to now. So the damage output will be lower.

    You will see.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobius76 View Post
    A good enf will last the entire ams just like Q said. And then usually die with the soldier at 50% hp or so. Having half the ams duration and taking 53% more damage under ams will have a very crippling effect on the soldier to say the least. The % of the time he will be stunned/feared/blinded under ams will be massive compared to now. So the damage output will be lower.

    You will see.
    Do you even read the other profs' docs or just love to spout nonsense? Enfos are losing some stuns, the pvp fear is on a cooldown, rage doesn't buff RS so enforcers are not much, if any, faster than soldiers, layers are on a 10 second cooldown, and WHAT enf blinds? All those opi enfs running around with BBD? pfft. Show me the crat blinds. Can't outrun an engi pet? Get GSF and no blinds! The ONLY thing so far in any of the released docs that looks to even be an issue for soldiers is crat nukes because soldiers have stupidly low NR. Snares and roots are almost a non-issue for all classes after rebalance because of the shot durations.

    If a "good enf" is killed and you are still at 50% hp -now-, before the %hot and +80 HD, that needs to be changed because it's /fail. On top of that, stop overplaying your "50% more damage" nonsense. You're still only going to take in the range of 300 damage from regulars during AMS. So sorry your 1:20 of godmode is getting nerfed but, ya know, people should be able to hurt you.
    Last edited by Kopecz; Nov 16th, 2010 at 07:27:23.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Questra View Post
    1) Place the 30% PvP cap before reflects in terms of damage calculation.
    No, because that's how it used to be and that was one of the biggest problems with pvp.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  17. #157
    Hello, figured i d run the healing calcs myself This is just an example and is questionnable ofc.

    Trox 2nd genome :
    - My Way : 600 HP tick x5, total 3K heal (120sec)
    - My Own Fortress : unclear, guess it is a 2K/3K heal tho (150sec)

    Colossal Health :
    - Blessing of LIfe : 900 team heal (50 sec)
    - Lifeblood : 14x360 tick ---> 5040 over 32 sec (300sec)
    - Draw Blood : 1.7K heal for j00, averaged with PvP reduction (60sec)

    Special Forces :
    - Field Bandage : (took 1K first aid only, heal increase function of your FA) : 600 HP (40sec)

    Nano doc :
    - Last Resort @ 30K HP : 100x30 = 3K heal over 30 sec. Obviously, since that one should be used in last resort, you ll probably try

    to use it and kill your ennemy before that payback time . . . Let's count 20 sec of beneficial time, or 2K heal instead of the full

    30 sec. (180sec)


    Heal delta calcs : bit more complex. Asked a bud solja what was his numbers for it, he is in a dual envy setup with 298 HD leg, 274 feet, Conscious HD arm symb (might not be the optimal PvP setup at all, you tell me, that's just an exemple). In the future a heal delta setup might be the standard so exact number can't be predicted here. Anyway here it is :

    ./misc stats script says 152 Heal amount with no buffs

    For some reason the actual heal in the log is 167.
    213 while sitting on top of a 2x quicker tick rate.

    + 80 from AMS +3 from generic :

    -------> 125 HPS while standing, 15k heal over 2 min
    -------> 296 HPS while sitting, 35.5K over 2 min


    Results :

    From perks / nano, assuming they are up, over 2 min, no ratio on recharges (flat use, 50 sec recharge perk counted twice, 300 sec recharge counted once etc) : 20Kish heal, can pop 15Kish over 30 seconds if you want.

    HD : 15K over 2 min while standing, could count sitting over 30 sec in addition to nano / perk for an additionnal 5K over 2 min and a total of 23Kish over the 30 seconds considered (just as an exemple).



    D need to compare with what you can heal today of course, but rough numbers doesn't seem that bad. Just as a comparaison, it reminds me of today's enfo healing power (15K from BR, 15 from mongo over a minute i think, + lower HD then you). They surely have some use, but that doesn't sound OP neither (was my hypothesis before calcing that). Now to say how that gonna act combined with reflect, new DPS output you ll take in the head etc, new cap mechanics maybe, probably less big special, increased HP buffer ... I d be optimistic.

  18. #158
    not sure how you got last resort as 3k heal over 30 seconds...

    its 6% of the health every 3 seconds for 30 seconds, so at 30k hp that would be 1800 heal every 3 second or 600 hps, even if you factor in the -30% at the end that still comes out as 9k healing over the 32 seconds the nano is active.

    If your just putting the first 20 seconds of it in, it comes out at roughly 12k healing over that 20 seconds.

  19. #159
    yeah, th XLS sheet is misleading ... it says 100 HPS for 30k ... but it's 600...
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  20. #160
    Allright so that s 18K over 30 sec or 12K if you assume 20 sec b4 your target die.

    So that's a potential 30K+ heal over 30 sec, assuming you d pop all you got in AMS cooldown. Sounds good no ?

Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •