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Thread: New Engineer Nano Changes!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Alright guys, you've been waiting for this one for a while now, so without any further ado I present... The (first draft) Engineer Nano Document!

    Let's get the big one out of the way first:

    Tradeskills: Engineer nanos will now require tradeskills to cast instead of nanoskills. This allows Engineers to be able to focus their IP better, as well as freeing up IP expenditures in the future. It's important to note that as the itemization parts of the rebalancing work have not been detailed/released yet, we will be accommodating this new method of casting nanos in the Engineer's toolset beyond just nanoprograms.

    Tradeskills needed to cast nanos are as follows: Quantum Physics, Weapon Smithing, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, and Chemistry. You may notice Tutoring listed in the nano document, but this will not be utilized for nanocasting going forward.
    Nice idea! ...but what exactly is stopping our engis to perk nr8?



    Edit:

    Also.. 60 sec duration on RK reflects? copy paste mistake? No aura part on those and I doubt engis are supposed to recast reflects every 60 seconds.

    Edit2:
    Another Question. No defense check on the AoE nuke effect of Nanite bomb? Intended?
    Last edited by XenonDe; Nov 12th, 2010 at 17:37:14.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    Oh yeah: In before NR engineers take over.
    Easily fixable by adding tradeskill debuffs to NR perkline.

    /ducks
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  3. #23
    What will happen to Agents tp mimic Engi buffs?

    Will Notum Repulsor debuff tradeskills as well then, or wont Engis have any access to thoose anymore?
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  4. #24
    I just hope you won't reduce engies survibility in those occasions which do work well. Meaning eng can have mass of low AR mobs on him and survive...

    On other notes, Nemesis seems bit bad-ass.

    Seriously 2min on primary dmg-buff for pets? This is worse than Isotos... Please make it atleast 5min to match trimmers...
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
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  5. #25
    Engineers don't really have the perks free to perk NR8, but even so I agree that NR should effect the TS line so that engineers dont become complete caster counter.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    EP nerf (goes to pistol buff line) will affect all and any pistol using professions. Welcome the new Caterwaul, as professions with twinked on pistols will lose from 50 upwards in buffs (Pistol Mastery), or more (advy buffs).
    Don't really see where this is coming from, the only people that are standing to loose potential pistol is adventurer and as far as I know, we've not seen their new nano's so it could have changed to allow them the higher pistol from outside the pistol buff line.

    Crats will still get 170 pistol buff max (the equivilent of their +50 and the current 120 from EP)

    People relying in pistol mastery + EP will GAIN 10 points.

  7. #27
    @eroz_c
    As far as I see it is now 170 Pistol for EP.
    What you saw is the new Buff "Prejeduice" which grants 70 Pistol .
    regards
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  8. #28
    Notice that we lost the most potent pet buff and that iSoToS lost its AAO buff and decent duration time and that these two lines even got merged without any beneficial AAO buff.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sawlid View Post
    Notice that we lost the most potent pet buff and that iSoToS lost its AAO buff and decent duration time and that these two lines even got merged without any beneficial AAO buff.
    Merging those two can't be yet seen as they are going to redo pets. Only issue on this info it's time of the buff, which is just way too low.
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
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  10. #30
    Ok... ok...

    Well... tradeskill requirements, eh? Extra IP will not make me any more powerful in any meaningful way, so once the dust settles, there better not be disadvantages for this.

    Nerfing personal blockers... I don't even... you guys! wth! We need dialogue on this issue, please. I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this move!

    Scaling of various stuffs for sub-220s seems good. I expect it'll need tweaking here and there.

    Changing NSD to a pet proc... I've wanted that for a long time... but to balance the fact that it will no longer be able to affect multiple targets simultaneously, it should get MORE powerful, not nerfed down to 35%! This needs reworking, dialogue please!

    Changing our blind to a pet proc... here we go again. Now it's a 350 AR debuff. Who, pray tell, are we going to evade after they've had their AR debuffed by 350? Unless the answer magically becomes "almost everyone", then this nano will not be of use except for soloing stuff in PvM. An AR debuff which does not debuff people by enough to cause them to miss is not doing anything for us. At least the way it is the nano has good PvM utility. Rework needed, dialogue please!

    You improved the top AC buff by 300 ACs. It isn't April 1.

    If Miniturization is being changed to something else (which I have to complain is something not useful to the 220 toon I did that godawful quest on), what are we using to shrink our pets? I'm sure that's being moved somewhere, just curious where (store buyable general nanos I hope! Tiny pets for all!).

    Omni-pol and SotOS lines merged. 2 min duration. Stage SMASH! It's like you looked at what we asked for and did the opposite. This is balance? Please talk to us about this. At least tell us *why*...

    The debuff remover looks good.

    Pet resistances are being nerfed. Impossible to say what the implications are, as it's been suggested to us that pets are getting a serious defensive boost, but...

    I caught the idea that one of the reasons it took so long to present us with our rebalance document was that it was married to a "complete rework of the pets from the ground up". and now we're brushed off with an airy "More to come"?



    I hope you guys understand that on the whole what you're presenting here is... very upsetting, and I hope you're prepared to talk us through this, let us know the reasons behind some of the decisions, and what is set in stone, and what you may consider changing... because... soooo much of this needs changing...
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  11. #31
    Hm. Will wait to see what new utils/huds/other new ideas come along.

    *) Comp Master Tradeskills appears to have a 100 level lock, but needs spec 3. Are you telling me you can get spec 3 at 100 after the changes?

    *) Why, why WHY are pet animas down to two mins? SOTOS ok, was historically short, but it was an extra. Do you really hate us that much that you give us an extra chore? I mean I'm *really* going to enjoy swapping a couple of things round every couple of minutes to buff my pets, thanks for adding fun! I can't see any reason whatsoever for this change, other than OCD completeness.

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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekarona View Post
    Merging those two can't be yet seen as they are going to redo pets. Only issue on this info it's time of the buff, which is just way too low.
    They're setting the bar pretty high if they want to remove these nanos from us, so I really hope the faith people have in their pet reworking pays off.
    Nerf 219 Shadow lurking Agent
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  13. #33
    The agent concern is quite valid too. Does FP engineer convert nano skills to tradeskills now?
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  14. #34
    looking at what some are saying I'd just like to give my thoughts on why certain things are happening.

    NSD being weakened, I'd assume this is to go with the lower available resists and the fact that it would become more or less permanent while pets are attacking.

    Blind aura/proc, this I guess it to a) prevent it being too strong in pvp and b) emphasize the need for pets to be tanking not the engineer.

    Miniturization is still there, if you'd check the document, lesser miniturization becomes the current miniturization while the current one gets changed to the new nano (basically changing the quest reward from a shrink to the new nano)

    and for the anima, even I'll admit its a bit short, I hate the though of having to constantly be buffing/debuffing in combat rather then actually fighting (this goes for other buffs/debuffs as well, specially in long pvm boss fights that last like 20 minutes) but I'll also assume that the NEED for these buffs should not be as high as they are currently after the pets have been redone, so while it is ridiculously short, not having it on should hopefully not be as painful. That said, at least while your buffing these your pets will still attack unlike other buff/debuff classes that would need to spam them. Hopefully this sort of change will help start changing one of my biggest pet peeves of some pet classes (crats) completely outdamaging other classes... pen pushers should not be able to kick out twice/thrice the damage of a class who's meant to be combat specialists.

    Hopefully making these an "OMG I need to get that one thing down quickly before it kills us while we fight other weaker things" rather than a "damn I need this up constantly for the pet to be worthwhile"
    Last edited by Xenotric; Nov 12th, 2010 at 18:08:36.

  15. #35
    i'm no Engineer specialist, but anything that can make their nanocast faster and/or less painful is welcomed, as for MPs : most pet professions suffer from the double issue of long pet casting and long pet buffing (even if crats are less boring on that aspect, somehow).
    Engis had another problem of long team/target nanos over it all, so these changes seem to go in the good direction.

    Few remarks i'd make :
    - rare nanos like Sotos lose their main interest (AR buff), but let's consider the pet stat rework will benefit the whole profession.
    - AOE AAO debuffs get drastically nerfed, but i suppose this goes into the frame of profession PVP rebalance and PVM more challenging (as for crat changes we seen).

    Still i'm sure most changes will please engis, some might not, as seen in this thread ^^
    Last edited by bitnykk; Nov 12th, 2010 at 17:55:23.
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  16. #36
    In the past I had given up on playing an engie because I had the option of a tradeskiller or a leveling/playable toon. This makes so much sense that now I am going to have to decide which other profession I will have to delete to roll a new engie.

    Good job!

    I assume that traders will get the same change. It would be interesting to see something similar for a few of the other professions, but with their skillsets (enforcer needs all melee skills, soldier needs all ranged skills, MA needs all physical specials, etc...).
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by -Stage- View Post
    Nerfing personal blockers... I don't even... you guys! wth! We need dialogue on this issue, please. I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this move!
    It's a nerf and it's not. Professions are not going to be able to use 4 specials at once due to the AS-FA-SA lockout change. Thats also a known change, there very well could be others planed and or thought about that we don't know about.

    Personally I would prefer it to be 6/2 since we can also cast our Team blockers, if we're not in lockout, and that adds another 6/6.

    Changing NSD to a pet proc... I've wanted that for a long time... but to balance the fact that it will no longer be able to affect multiple targets simultaneously, it should get MORE powerful, not nerfed down to 35%! This needs reworking, dialogue please!
    Reflects were made less powerful.

    Changing our blind to a pet proc... here we go again. Now it's a 350 AR debuff. Who, pray tell, are we going to evade after they've had their AR debuffed by 350? Unless the answer magically becomes "almost everyone", then this nano will not be of use except for soloing stuff in PvM. An AR debuff which does not debuff people by enough to cause them to miss is not doing anything for us. At least the way it is the nano has good PvM utility. Rework needed, dialogue please!
    I had an excessive amount of dialog on this, good luck.

    You improved the top AC buff by 300 ACs. It isn't April 1.
    ACs will be more useful in the future.

    If Miniturization is being changed to something else (which I have to complain is something not useful to the 220 toon I did that godawful quest on), what are we using to shrink our pets? I'm sure that's being moved somewhere, just curious where (store buyable general nanos I hope! Tiny pets for all!).
    The 1st shrink nano that does 25% was changed into the dog between the 100 and 175 dog. The 50% nano is still there.


    Omni-pol and SotOS lines merged. 2 min duration. Stage SMASH! It's like you looked at what we asked for and did the opposite. This is balance? Please talk to us about this. At least tell us *why*...
    This is in line with other professions having short duration high effect buffs on their pets combat ability.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by eroz_c View Post
    I do appreciate that perks are being looked at too - but hey - there's probably going to be a "Champion of Carb Making" nano line now, and otherwise any perks that might have a nano skill as attack skill will be out of reach for engies.
    Surely with all the spare IP engis would have, youd be able to spare some to max 1 or 2 nano skills?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    In the past I had given up on playing an engie because I had the option of a tradeskiller or a leveling/playable toon. This makes so much sense that now I am going to have to decide which other profession I will have to delete to roll a new engie.
    Exactly, I started levelling my Engi to replace my crats tradeskills, this will just make it even better.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    *) Why, why WHY are pet animas down to two mins? SOTOS ok, was historically short, but it was an extra. Do you really hate us that much that you give us an extra chore? I mean I'm *really* going to enjoy swapping a couple of things round every couple of minutes to buff my pets, thanks for adding fun! I can't see any reason whatsoever for this change, other than OCD completeness
    I, personally, would imagine thats because they want people to play, not afk or fall asleep at the keyboard.

    /pet hunt, /afk is harder if your pets need rebuffing all the time.

    Also, given the changes to nano casting skills, you probably wont need to swap items around.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Easily fixable by removing NR perkline.

    /ducks
    Fixed!
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