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Thread: Friday with Means - November 19th, 2010: The Sky is Not Falling

  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    For that to work, at least half the paid players would have to stay.

    Double the sub, and I can bet a riot will ensue, comparing other MMO's who have much lower rates with the gigantic $30 a month you suggested.

    People would quit over paying twice as much for a game, because it just becomes too expensive in their eyes.
    Had to check because I havent studied the prices before I said it. Its just under 100 euros for a year. I dont know if thats 30$ a month but I would have no problem with doubled sub. I kind of already have more than doubled it as I have several acc's.
    But it was more ment to be a way of telling my dislike for the latest changes, I dont belive there will ever be higher sub. Their ingame shop will probably make more money.

  2. #162
    I'm so happy you're fixing the text issues, thanks. that really put a big knot in the way do things
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Dummy View Post
    Had to check because I havent studied the prices before I said it. Its just under 100 euros for a year. I dont know if thats 30$ a month but I would have no problem with doubled sub. I kind of already have more than doubled it as I have several acc's.
    But it was more ment to be a way of telling my dislike for the latest changes, I dont belive there will ever be higher sub. Their ingame shop will probably make more money.
    Except in Europe, we'd pay 30 Euros + VAT so we'd be shafted yet again by FC's hefty USA subsidies.

    30 a month for an MMO as old as AO? Bahahaha. In fact 30 a month for any MMO? Bahahaha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Hacre View Post
    You'd have a point, except Means and Co have been telling us for months upon months that Anarchy Online is financially viable and wonderful and profitable and in no money trouble at all, long before selling VP, Ofab, Tokens, formerly profession locked abilities for cold hard cash was even a flickering of synapses in Means' mind.

    Which kinda blows the whole "WE AM GO BROEK IF NOT DO THIS" reasoning out of the water.
    This is what the hand wants you to see vs finding the real truth. AO's revenue hasn't been steady, and it feels like almost more froobs are running around then paid players.

    I am guessing you can tell that with VP/Ofab/Tokens/Level locks that even Means probably didn't want this, but how is he going to tell his bosses that he couldn't bring in enough money?

    I also believe there may come a point where they are selling in-game items worth a bit, maybe not a ton (i.e. some of the loot right stuff or possibly weapons). When someone puts a bunch of weight on your back, eventually you'll shake them off or have your back break. VP/OFab/Tokens/Leveling are just a start to Paid stuff.
    Last edited by Siegetank; Nov 21st, 2010 at 22:12:11.
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    I would be one of the first to support deleting every post that really doesn't help. FINALLY, we can get to the topic. I said it before this is strictly a monetary move. The game is hurting on money, and the player shop is a clear way of adding revenue to keep this game afloat for a while. Without it, I could see this game tanking in less then 2 years.

    Either way, for some the sky is falling.
    And I'm so glad to hear from a member of Funcom's accounting department! You coming up with something so contrary to what has been stated by Funcom officials is contradictory to your support of "deleting every post that doesn't help". Further monetizing a business model does not always mean the business model is failing. It is quite possible that while sustainable, they want to push for more profit to support some of the major developments in the pipeline (graphics update anyone?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    This is what the hand wants you to see vs finding the real truth. AO's revenue hasn't been steady, and it feels like almost more froobs are running around then paid players.
    Based on what? Is your independent analysis of Funcom's financials based on "what it feels like" in game? Hate to break it to you, but Funcom has been on a rebound as of late. Check out investor relations on the Funcom site. Maybe your onto something here though.. I think you should type up your report and send it to the SEC.. Get Means busted for fraud!
    Last edited by Mahdi007; Nov 21st, 2010 at 22:47:30.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    I said it before this is strictly a monetary move. The game is hurting on money, and the player shop is a clear way of adding revenue to keep this game afloat for a while. Without it, I could see this game tanking in less then 2 years.

    Either way, for some the sky is falling.
    You do know who you're talking about right?

    Humans.

    Typically we want more money then we already have, even if we are financially stable.
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi007 View Post
    And I'm so glad to hear from a member of Funcom's accounting department! You coming up with something so contrary to what has been stated by Funcom officials is contradictory to your support of "deleting every post that doesn't help". Further monetizing a business model does not always mean the business model is failing. It is quite possible that while sustainable, they want to push for more profit to support some of the major developments in the pipeline (graphics update anyone?).
    Don't have to be apart of the account department... http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...40&postcount=4 - "Current game director Colin Cragg stated Anarchy Online's "small development team" could not afford the "growing [cost] estimates" involved in making the necessary modifications to it."

    "According to Funcom's Q2 2010 report AoC showed a "significant revenue increase" while the company as a whole showed a 46% increase in revenue mostly attributed to the release of the AoC expansion pack."

    So again, where does trolling get you? The business model for this game is weak, and without AoC and other games like The Secret World...AO wouldn't exist today. If they couldn't even afford a graphics update, then what?



    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi007 View Post
    Based on what? Is your independent analysis of Funcom's financials based on "what it feels like" in game? Hate to break it to you, but Funcom has been on a rebound as of late. Check out investor relations on the Funcom site. Maybe your onto something here though.. I think you should type up your report and send it to the SEC.. Get Means busted for fraud!
    They haven't been on the rebound, and that I hate to break to you, and that is why the game store is up.

    Listen, if you want to be put in your place again...please, go ahead. I've already done it once now...and I must admit I totally destroyed all your points. AO is hurting on money, and I just proved it.
    Last edited by Siegetank; Nov 21st, 2010 at 23:04:33.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    Don't have to be apart of the account department... http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...40&postcount=4 - "Current game director Colin Cragg stated Anarchy Online's "small development team" could not afford the "growing [cost] estimates" involved in making the necessary modifications to it."
    That's not about the game in general. That's a statement from a good while back explaining why they dropped the development on OGRE in favor of the dreamworld engine.

    I don't like the shop either. But please try to stick to the facts
    Last edited by Phargus; Nov 21st, 2010 at 23:13:06.


  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    That's not about the game in general. That's a post from a good while back explaining why they dropped the development on OGRE in favor of the dreamworld engine.

    I don't like the shop either. But please try to stick to the facts
    Yeah, stick to the facts:

    "Current game director Colin Cragg stated Anarchy Online's "small development team" could not afford the "growing [cost] estimates" involved in making the necessary modifications to it."

    This says they could not afford the growing cost to modify the game with their small team. There is no read between the lines, they don't have the budget to afford it. You read OGRE and dreamworld engine are completely irrelevant. Were you even thinking?

    The shop is here to pay for the new Engine that they just said that couldn't afford with the growing cost to make important modifications. Yet again, just like Mahdi...blew up your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    You do know who you're talking about right?

    Humans.

    Typically we want more money then we already have, even if we are financially stable.
    Humans know when you need something and don't have money, you have to borrow it or wait to get it.

    The player shop is yet another tactic that was used to help bring in line the growing cost of rebalance + graphics update.
    Last edited by Siegetank; Nov 21st, 2010 at 23:18:33.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    Snip.
    You quoted a 2 (almost 3) year old GD post, about a major game enhancement that has not only switched engines, but has been in (proven) production since then - and some snippets from Funcom's financials that both don't mention AO AND say that Funcom is on the rebound.

    Thanks for "putting me in my place". WTS reading comprehension.

    I'd focus more on proving your point, than attempting to disprove mine and failing. If you could quote even one reputable source that says AO is in the red, I'll eat my words. You're impressions on the froob : paid account ratio in game do not qualify.

    Every month/week/day there is someone adamantly claiming AO is in it's last days. This is nothing new, I could dig up posts from as early as 2001 written by people just like you.
    Last edited by Mahdi007; Nov 21st, 2010 at 23:25:35.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi007 View Post
    You quoted a 2 (almost 3) year old GD post, about a major game enhancement that has not only switched engines, but has been in (proven) production since then - and some snippets from Funcom's financials that both don't mention AO AND say that Funcom is on the rebound.

    Thanks for "putting me in my place". WTS reading comprehension.
    Yeah, before I quote things I am going to be straight with you and everyone. This game isn't very profitable, at all. I looked at Funcom's Q1-Q3 Presentation of 2010, and they not once mentioned AO. They even mention Pets vs Monsters and Secret World several times, but not even a single mention of re-balance and graphics update which is a huge step for this game?

    I think that alone proves something, that this game is tanking on profits and even finding current information on AOs revenue or any news AO related even by Funcom is hard to come by. I'd keep that comprehension cause you haven't used it yet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online - Sales & Subscriptions - "Subscription revenue during this time was described as "steady" and "profitable". Subscription revenue remained "steady" for the next three years, until 2009 when they were described as "slowly declining".

    Also from there 2007 pdf revenue/expenses - http://hugin.info/133182/R/1165052/227715.pdf - Even in 2007, when the game was still Profitable, "Sale of virtual items in Anarchy Online initiated as part of a process of continuous evaluation of business models for MMOs" - They knew selling virtual items was going to be a huge way to nab increased revenue, even when there was a lot more players then. And look at the games Funcom is invested in:

    Age of Conan
    The Secret World
    Bloodline Champions (42% investor)
    Pets vs Monsters

    Why? http://www.engagedigital.com/2009/02...conan-weakens/ - Yeah, it is a bit outdated. But it hits the point...they are looking at the free-to-play market because AoC is good revenue, but it still isn't near the top.
    Last edited by Siegetank; Nov 21st, 2010 at 23:42:32.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

  12. #172
    I had a curious thought, on the way back home from the local after a swift-one...I wondered how much Means & Co. actually wanted to implement the shop Vs. how much they were pressured into it... I just can't for the life of me think they'd kick up such a fuss if they didn't have to...
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    Were you even thinking?
    Right, I was thinking the same thing about you. You tried posting an out of context quote, then when you got busted on it you tried to hide it by being as loud as possible.

    May I suggest your next step should be hiding under your bed, sticking your fingers in your ears and humming really loudly? Don't worry it won't make you look any more stupid since that would be impossible...


  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    I had a curious thought, on the way back home from the local after a swift-one...I wondered how much Means & Co. actually wanted to implement the shop Vs. how much they were pressured into it... I just can't for the life of me think they'd kick up such a fuss if they didn't have to...
    Ooooh, surely you can be banned for such blasphemic thoughts!
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  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    I had a curious thought, on the way back home from the local after a swift-one...I wondered how much Means & Co. actually wanted to implement the shop Vs. how much they were pressured into it... I just can't for the life of me think they'd kick up such a fuss if they didn't have to...
    Does it really matter? If my shampoo gives me a rash I don't care if it's because the particular assembly line worker that made it was distracted because his boss is giving him a hard time. I just switch to another brand...


  16. #176
    Feel free not to care Phargus, idc really I was just thinking...it's seldom advised i'm reliably told hehe
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  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    Yeah, before I quote things I am going to be straight with you and everyone. This game isn't very profitable, at all. I looked at Funcom's Q1-Q3 Presentation of 2010, and they not once mentioned AO. They even mention Pets vs Monsters and Secret World several times, but not even a single mention of re-balance and graphics update which is a huge step for this game?

    I think that alone proves something, that this game is tanking on profits and even finding current information on AOs revenue or any news AO related even by Funcom is hard to come by. I'd keep that comprehension cause you haven't used it yet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online - Sales & Subscriptions - "Subscription revenue during this time was described as "steady" and "profitable". Subscription revenue remained "steady" for the next three years, until 2009 when they were described as "slowly declining".

    Also from there 2007 pdf revenue/expenses - http://hugin.info/133182/R/1165052/227715.pdf - Even in 2007, when the game was still Profitable, "Sale of virtual items in Anarchy Online initiated as part of a process of continuous evaluation of business models for MMOs" - They knew selling virtual items was going to be a huge way to nab increased revenue, even when there was a lot more players then. And look at the games Funcom is invested in:

    Age of Conan
    The Secret World
    Bloodline Champions (42% investor)
    Pets vs Monsters

    Why? http://www.engagedigital.com/2009/02...conan-weakens/ - Yeah, it is a bit outdated. But it hits the point...they are looking at the free-to-play market because AoC is good revenue, but it still isn't near the top.
    1. As an interested party, I too read the Funcom quarterly presentations, mainly to get some insight into the new MMO "The Secret World". Declining subscription revenue != losing money. It means what it intends to mean - AO is not making as much as it used to. There could be many reasons for this, and I'm sure it fluctuates. With the introduction of the online store, AO may end up being more profitable than it has been in years.

    2. Quarterly reports are made to excite and attract investors. If AO was their most profitable game, it would surely be listed in their quarterlies - if it's just staying marginally profitable there is not much point in giving it it's own section. Assuming the reason it's not being showcased is because it's losing Funcom money is baseless.

    3. "Sale of virtual items in Anarchy Online initiated as part of a process of continuous evaluation of business models for MMOs" - Read that again. Slowly. Now tell me, what is wrong with staying competitive in a billion dollar industry? Since when do businesses only try to increase capital gain when they are losing money? I don't get your logic.


    Conspiracy theories and speculation is all you've been able to bring to the conversation. If AO has been in as bad of shape as you think it has, for as long as you say it has, it would be long gone.

  18. #178
    You will find a fair number of mmo's that have an in game browser, and some sort of item shop. Take a look at EVE. They have an in game web browser, and a shop that sells a game time code for real money that can used for 30 days of play or sold /traded in game for credits. Eve is doing rather well btw, and the sky over there is still right where it should be. So piss and moan all you want about it, rail against how much you think it will break AO, pull whatever misquoted rubbish out to validate the real reason you are against it, however you are still left with the fact that you don't like it. Even though you haven't a leg to stand on to support your opinion. So, fine. You don't like it. Thanks for voicing your opinion. Door's over there →
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegetank View Post
    "Current game director Colin Cragg stated Anarchy Online's "small development team" could not afford the "growing [cost] estimates" involved in making the necessary modifications to it."
    For those interested here is the original source.

    Note that '[cost]' is not included there.
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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    May I suggest your next step should be hiding under your bed, sticking your fingers in your ears and humming really loudly? Don't worry it won't make you look any more stupid since that would be impossible...
    Thanks for that insight you shared about your life, you tried to be cleaver and decorate as my problems, here is some help I found through a google search: http://www.spsfv.org/hotlines.htm

    Get help, and don't be afraid to do it soon.


    To the obvious trolling...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    Feel free not to care Phargus, idc really I was just thinking...it's seldom advised i'm reliably told hehe
    Using the wisdom to not care for...
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    Right, I was thinking the same thing about you. You tried posting an out of context quote, then when you got busted on it you tried to hide it by being as loud as possible.
    ~AND~
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi007 View Post
    Conspiracy theories and speculation is all you've been able to bring to the conversation. If AO has been in as bad of shape as you think it has, for as long as you say it has, it would be long gone.
    Obvious trolls are obvious, listen to Aiken. I chose not to care for either of these parts. Oh wait, there is parts that are concise?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahdi007 View Post
    1. As an interested party, I too read the Funcom quarterly presentations, mainly to get some insight into the new MMO "The Secret World". Declining subscription revenue != losing money. It means what it intends to mean - AO is not making as much as it used to. There could be many reasons for this, and I'm sure it fluctuates. With the introduction of the online store, AO may end up being more profitable than it has been in years.

    2. Quarterly reports are made to excite and attract investors. If AO was their most profitable game, it would surely be listed in their quarterlies - if it's just staying marginally profitable there is not much point in giving it it's own section. Assuming the reason it's not being showcased is because it's losing Funcom money is baseless.

    3. "Sale of virtual items in Anarchy Online initiated as part of a process of continuous evaluation of business models for MMOs" - Read that again. Slowly. Now tell me, what is wrong with staying competitive in a billion dollar industry? Since when do businesses only try to increase capital gain when they are losing money? I don't get your logic.
    1. I hope it becomes profitable, and the fact AO is not even shown in the quarterly's in the past year (even after a huge announcement like Re-balance/Engine) surprises me.

    2. Of course, that is learned in Business 101 at your local university. An important tool none-the-less

    3. My logic has always been the same, and the fact you can't see it makes me question why I even respond to you. AO is hurting on money, I will support even Leveling packs of 1-199 if it means the game stays longer. I've always supported the Store system (very big in F2P games). You missed my point, and you have yet to read my stance which I've made clear in a earlier page on this thread and numerous times.

    Again, you both try to troll and fail. I brought facts to the table and then watched as you tried to discredit them and belittle them. Nice try, but they stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebondevil View Post
    For those interested here is the original source.

    Note that '[cost]' is not included there.
    Read what it says, again. Let 'could not afford' stick in your mind, it's like being quoted in a paper, [Cost] was the word to be assumed in there.

    Edit: Done answering trolls, if people got questions or would like to have it out with me...message Siegetank on RK2. Anytime, I made my point and it sticks. Item shop is great, the game is hurting on money, AO is slowly dying, re-balance is the last breath of air if new players don't roll around or shop doesn't succeed. Simple, concise, no sky falling.
    Last edited by Siegetank; Nov 22nd, 2010 at 03:15:13.
    Ctrlaltwin. Man. Legend.

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