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Thread: FA change idea

  1. #1

    FA change idea

    i was thinkin about this while reading Noobius76s post about FA and decided to make separate post to see what u guys think about this:

    Ok the idea is : FA change to 15 bullets only -no need to reaload after-and no dmg reduction after 10th bullet.

    Easy to cap 15k in pvm .. waay enuf for pvp (exept maybe high HP enfos- but thats kinda ok)

    NO NEED TO REALOAD: will help alot with our dmg output- no more reaload bugs-better aggro control too i think- will make FA much much much much more usable against evaders as now it only wastes your time with fkin reload. Spares your inv. a lilbit too,we wont use 50kbullets in like 4 hours of ingame time.

    Also 15 bullet FA will at last make a sense as 29 bullets FA now is just stupid and useless mechanics.

    With the incoming change on better landrate on first few bullets this could make FA much more reliable special.

    overall we will gain dmg in pvp and pvm but notin too OP .. just less annoying.

    So please leave your comments what u think about this change.
    Vespersk 220/70/30 Sol
    Runordie 220/50/23 Enf
    Piskotka 220/50/21 Adv
    Vesperagent 170/40/19 Agent
    Arpi 150/30/9 Adv
    Taishasdoc220/70/25 Doc
    Bebop10 170/full/full Sol 300 ofab on
    Hoboblaster 200/full/XX Crat for S7 in progress

  2. #2
    don't change that. i'd really rather not be limited in pvp by a bullet cap.


    I don't need to give reasons. Anyone one who pvps should be aware already. So no-no and no.


    Edit : If you HAVE to change this mechanic, then just change it so it only uses the bullets you can Fa with. In this example 29 (some of us have 30 but you know).

    Don't do it anything under the max amount of bullets you can use though. Please. Or at least give a setting to customize. Otherwise this idea is a no.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
    Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  3. #3
    It really doesn't need to be like this. Just let the weapons draw ammo directly from the ammobox/ammostack. No need to reload weapons, it's a useless mechanic in a futuristic game. Full auto would then only draw the number of bullets you shoot, and you can't shoot anymore if you have no ammo in inventory. I realise this means alot of reworking on ranged weapons, but it would also gameplay improve alot.

  4. #4
    There were talks about boosting the start of FA, like giving the first bullets a better check.

    Imho 15k should be an achievement, this and TMS X show that your sold is grown up.

    I do agree that at 220 29 bullets make no sense. Perhaps with several bullets, when reaching a high count, not stopping fa on miss so there is a point to spray so much projectiles.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
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  5. #5
    I have a concept if there is a check for a higher then 15 bullet count fired, the rest of the bullets get converted into an extremely high damage aoe with the function of clip fever. There for, you do reach the official cap on one person, and the people around feel the pain as well of being near your bullets that are being sprayed.

  6. #6
    I agree with a few points here. It would be nice to be able to toggle, like the new TS window, how many bullets you want to fire with an FA in a given situation. In PvM low amount to save bullets and in PvP the max amount to counter reflects and absorbs, etc. I also love the idea of added collateral damage when firing off 29-30 bullet FAs. Realistically, those extra bullets have to go somewhere. All we'd need then is to able to fire from moving vehicles so we could perform Yalm-by shootings.
    On RK1: Legerdemain 220 Omni Advy - Battlestarr 220 Omni Sold - Manilow 150 Omni Keeper - Irkules 220 Omni Enf - Rancho 188-ish Omni Fixer - Legman 220 Omni Engi - Manblack 172-ish froob Omni MP - Hivvy 200 froob Omni Agent

    On RK2: Kallark 150 Neut MA - Thunderballs 208-ish Neut Enf

  7. #7
    fa is fine in my opinion
    if ya increase the dmg output of the first ~15 bullets...everybody with 1k+ fa skill can do max fa on non-evaders...no good

    we got our ~2.5k+ fa skill so we can do the ~30 bullets fa hits and thats nice in some case...

    why u (soldiers) wanna change it and let everybody outburst an 15k fa?


    we are soldiers. we are good at fa....the best...and tahts it. so why complain?

  8. #8
    The idea behid this is to mainly get rid of the reload after FA what is in my opinion the main problem with it. Im ok with 29/30 bullets FA (even if it makes no sense when dmg is capped at 15k) but at last the reload should go.

    Other idea: We could have a new Proc ( our procs are useless now anyway) where when u fire FA all the bullets after 15k dmg will do taunt on target. (we wont get any area dmg or boosted dmg so this could be a nice lil help in sum pvm situations)
    Vespersk 220/70/30 Sol
    Runordie 220/50/23 Enf
    Piskotka 220/50/21 Adv
    Vesperagent 170/40/19 Agent
    Arpi 150/30/9 Adv
    Taishasdoc220/70/25 Doc
    Bebop10 170/full/full Sol 300 ofab on
    Hoboblaster 200/full/XX Crat for S7 in progress

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vesp View Post
    Other idea: We could have a new Proc ( our procs are useless now anyway) where when u fire FA all the bullets after 15k dmg will do taunt on target.
    I'm not 100% sure, but I think that might work like this already. I noticed while in teams where I was using an oshark and other soldiers were using a dshark, they would normally get agg despite me outputting more damage. The only difference I could think of was the amount of bullets that hit in the FA (Ofab shark clip is 25).

    Since I switched to the Anger, agg bounces around how I would expect it.
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  10. #10
    I've never understood why FA just stops after you miss a single bullet. You guys sure are fickle when you shoot your guns!

    If they just changed that and just let every bullet try to hit, even if one misses, then FA would be tons more reliable. It might have to come with a bit of a damage decrease per bullet, but I can't say for sure.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    I've never understood why FA just stops after you miss a single bullet. You guys sure are fickle when you shoot your guns!
    One reason might be that the cheaper way to code this is to have 1 roll for "number of bullets that hit" rather than 29 chance rolls for single bullets. When you have a bunch of soldiers running around popping capped FAs every 11 seconds in the game environment, it might create non-trivial server lag to implement per-bullet rolls.

    Also, the game doesn't say it "stops" after the first bullet that misses; it just says "you hit with 1 bullet." People interpret that as meaning you hit with the first bullet and miss with the rest, but for all we know it could mean you hit with the 29th bullet and missed with every other one up to that point.

    Even if the game did (or does) use per-bullet rolls, you would still wind up with some FAs that hit with only one bullet. As long as any single roll function is designed around the same probability distribution that would result from 29 single bullet rolls, there is no mathematical reason to expect that the actual distribution of number of bullets that hit would change from doing it one way vs. the other.

    What people are really asking for when complaining about FA misses, if they're asking for any change at all, is not a change to FA mechanics but just a skew in the probability function that would eliminate "1 bullet" or other low bullet hits (which people misperceive as "all bullets after the first miss also missing"). This would really just amount to some sort of a fixed floor for number of bullets that hit from an FA. There doesn't seem any real good reason to change the distribution of how many bullets hit or to put a floor on minimum number, unless 1 bullet FAs are coming up abnormally often.
    Last edited by blingoutyourdead; Dec 1st, 2010 at 20:32:36.

  12. #12
    FA would be real op'ed if every single bullet had a chance to land.
    Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
    Secretly Clan

  13. #13
    yep that would be too op'ed

    in my opinion, fa should be at least a good burst

    if the first bullet hits, bullet 2 and 3 should automaticly hit also...and the check starts after bullet number 3, for 4 and the other ones...

    so if your first fa bullet hits, the minimum fa dmg is like a "burst" ...

    not very op'ed cause the checks for bullet 1 and bullet 4-30 are still thre...but bullet 2 and 3 also hits if 1 hits...

    thats what i want

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellrule View Post
    FA would be real op'ed if every single bullet had a chance to land.
    But if every single bullet did 5 damage, you could get a whopping total of 150 damage!

    Obviously it would come with some changes to damage calculations on each bullet, but it would be a major mechanic change that might make FA just simply more reliable, and not necessarily more damage.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  15. #15
    They should make it a 4 stage special, with defence checks at each stage. Damage should just be based on your regular hits with a cap of 5k per stage.

    Base it on a 20 bullet FA, that only uses 20 bullets, and split it into bullets stages 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20.

    Each stage has the possibility to do x5 your regular damage with a cap of 5k. In order to 'activate' each stage you need different levels of FA skill. 500 would open up stage 1, 1000 would open up stage 2, 1500 would open up stage 3 and 2000 would open up stage 4.


    This would make it slightly more effective in PvP but would, for end game soldiers, increase the possible damage done by FA to 20k. Combined with the lack of reloading needed after a FA this would be quite a nice addition to a soldiers damage output.

  16. #16
    They should also introduce a accuracy factor for Full Auto which is used in the attack/defence check for the special.

    This accuracy check is based on how stable you can hold your weapon.

    Therefore, Soldiers (or anyone with the FA special) who use 2 handed Assault Rifles should be more accurate with their Full Auto's.

    One handed dual weild users, while having better overall damage should be hampared by the fact that they can't keep their weapon as stable as a 2 hand user. They should have less accuracy with the full auto special.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    But if every single bullet did 5 damage, you could get a whopping total of 150 damage!

    Obviously it would come with some changes to damage calculations on each bullet, but it would be a major mechanic change that might make FA just simply more reliable, and not necessarily more damage.
    That's real tricky. All it takes is about 2-3 bullets to cap on an evader. I'm not here to say soldier's don't need a more reliable source of damage on high evade classes, but let a soldier shot you 30 times. Plenty of shots would get through and would guarantee a cap every 11 seconds.

    Nerf full auto down to where 10 bullets wouldn't cap? I'm fairly certain it would effect pvm a lot more. Not really a viable solution except where the first bullet has a much lower check, and possibly the second. Any more than that and you will have another "aimed shot" on your hands, which is exactly what funcom is trying to fix.
    Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
    Secretly Clan

  18. #18
    Or perhaps.

    Each bullet gets its own roll, but like when you would spray a normal weapon, if one bullet misses, a few are probably going to miss.

    So, say, the first 2 bullets landed, then the 3rd bullet missed, the bullets 4-6 also miss, and begin rolling again at 7. Just an example, the amount of bullets that "auto-miss" and then resume would have to be tweaked.

    Could possible make it in increments of 10 as well. Bullets 1 and 2 hit, 3 misses, pick up again at bullet 10, bullet 11 misses, pick up at 20, etc.

    Also gives us end game soldiers incentive to go for that 30 bullet FA which is reachable with a few gear changes for most of us.
    Leave "Marinegent" AScar - 220/23/65 Atrox Agent
    Wakeup "Marinesold" Screaming - 220/30/70 Nanomage Soldier
    "Moonmarin" - 220/30/80 Solitus Martial Artist
    "Marinekeep" - 215/18/4x Atrox Keeper
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Marinegent View Post
    Or perhaps.

    Each bullet gets its own roll, but like when you would spray a normal weapon, if one bullet misses, a few are probably going to miss.

    So, say, the first 2 bullets landed, then the 3rd bullet missed, the bullets 4-6 also miss, and begin rolling again at 7. Just an example, the amount of bullets that "auto-miss" and then resume would have to be tweaked.

    Could possible make it in increments of 10 as well. Bullets 1 and 2 hit, 3 misses, pick up again at bullet 10, bullet 11 misses, pick up at 20, etc.

    Also gives us end game soldiers incentive to go for that 30 bullet FA which is reachable with a few gear changes for most of us.
    There are a lot of weapons that don't get 30 bullets to a FA. JEPP, JPGPP, BBI Gyro, BigBurger, etc. making bullets miss would limit the functionality of those weapons pretty heavily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopecz View Post
    There are a lot of weapons that don't get 30 bullets to a FA. JEPP, JPGPP, BBI Gyro, BigBurger, etc. making bullets miss would limit the functionality of those weapons pretty heavily.
    Currently one bullet miss, all the following bullets misses.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

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