Remove CH form Agent Shadow/Mimic Line

[Cyberleet]

The way your arguments seem to come across though is it seems that you want to strip out the core concept behind Visual profession, to the point it may as well be removed entirely, stripping the agent back to the bare bones toolkit and then expect that and only that to work.

Oh come on, without CH our FP-abilities are still outstanding. Best class invented in a MMO ever! Hands down.

One could of course make Shaddow and FP diferent tho, so FP for buffs and shaddow for mimicing the combat-ablities. Or just have 1 tier of FP (instead of False, Assume, Mimic) for agents, then build on the assassin-theme.

[nitr0]

Oh come on, without CH our FP-abilities are still outstanding. Best class invented in a MMO ever! Hands down.

One could of course make Shaddow and FP diferent tho, so FP for buffs and shaddow for mimicing the combat-ablities. Or just have 1 tier of FP (instead of False, Assume, Mimic) for agents, then build on the assassin-theme.

why not removing fp abilities completely then. for ur playstyle staying agent and waiting for sth u can alpha kill (so sth green) works fine still... and u would be still having an outstanding profession in ur definition =)

playing agent like u do is no fun at all.

[Ebondevil]

Oh come on, without CH our FP-abilities are still outstanding. Best class invented in a MMO ever! Hands down.

I'm not just referring to CH though. In the past, in other threads, when ever any alternative defensive suggestions have been brought up, you seem to be dead set against them, instead wanting the focus to be purely on the Barebones Agent toolset to the complete exclusion of all else.

I apologise if that's not your intention, but that's how your arguments come across to me at least.

[Cyberleet]

All professions have, agent is the one with all offensive perkactions/nanotechnology etc

for ur playstyle staying agent and waiting for sth u can alpha kill (so sth green) works fine still... and u would be still having an outstanding profession in ur definition =)

playing agent like u do is no fun at all.

I think someone needs to get their facts straight.

here's a video of how I play a little, minus the M150/PE-ganking since 08. Absolutely love stealth, and escapes.

why not removing fp abilities completely then.

As OP and many others have said, would have rolled doctor if I wanted to play it. It's just 1 fp'able nano

I am actually one of the few that really want FP-extended and post for it Just FYI.

It's just that FP is not limited to CH as some seem to suggest.

[Sromp]

Letah, I've re-read your last couple posts and I'm still not sure if I've got it right, but here goes:


I think you're saying you want all FP-abilities such as tradeskilling and healing at the same level. How would you measure whether they're at the same level? Also, in the future system we'll have actions associated with each FP. How will different FPs be viable in PvP if some actions are dedicated to tradeskilling? Engineers use tradeskilling for their combat buffs now, but we certainly don't.
I agree we're broken now, but we know removing CH now won't change that. What's done must apply to the rebalance. Not sure if you're using this whole thing as a for-instance or not.


I also agree we should have no particular dependence on CH like we do now. I'm hoping with nano cooldowns and different cost/nanodelta mechanics CH will be much less useful in the rebalance.


I agree we should not just be a crappy version of what we FP. I think this also is the plan behind the new change; we will have specific soldiery actions which aren't necessarily soldier actions. For example, in doc we won't just be a doc with worse heals and more damage, and in sold we won't just be a sold with worse AMS and snareperks.


I disagree that we have all the offensive perks/nanos and therefore need no defense. Enfos, MA, Shade, and Sold look like they will still dwarf our alpha after the re-balance. To be competitive we will need some defense, whether it's conceal, alpha, or some combination of whatever. From your vidio, ganking shades is fine but your other kills wouldn't have happened without CH. Something has to replace it, and if it isn't innate to Agents it has to come through FP.


My guess is you want Agents to be exclusively an assassin, and come in 14 different flavours. I'm with that 100%.
But, you're coming across as wanting Agents to be gank-machines with no defense whatsoever. In the current Agent pvp environment, where Agents can rarely gank to begin with and feel like their defense is untenable already, you're getting a hostile response.

[Cyberleet]

I want agent's unique repetoir extended and be effective in combat, more endgame damage and FP extended.

What I said about tradeskilling is that it is an equally important ability. Unless you have pvp-goggles on of course.

Agent becoming a vicariate with shadow profession wasn't an idea that I liked very much.

From your vidio, ganking shades is fine but your other kills wouldn't have happened without CH.

Then something is wrong and must be fixed, thats my opinion.

Not that it isn't fun to play like that.

[Drakeep]

With all evades, monstrous AR other classes got (for not mention who has dof+limber+cocoon + heals), i don't see how fped CH can be an unbalancing factor.

Fp doc costs alot in terms of AR, u have CH true, but goin fp enfo u'll get monstrous NR speed attackrating and ... and u are bigger!

Regards
:P

[srompu]

I want agent's unique repetoir extended and be effective in combat, more endgame damage and FP extended.
/agree
[I]What I said about tradeskilling is that it is an equally important ability. Unless you have pvp-goggles on of course.
/disagree
Agent becoming a vicariate with shadow profession wasn't an idea that I liked very much.
/kindofboth

I'm taking this thread in general with pvp-goggles on, because I think that's how it was intended. Even in pvm I can't see how tradeskilling and healing would go in the same realm. We'd have to add trap-disarm, taunts, init-debuffs, drains, AC-debuffs, etc, and I don't think it could be reasonably balanced. Do you mean that all FP-based combat abilities should be scaled down almost completely?

I think the idea of shadow-profession was to avoid being a vicariate, to allow Agents agenty flavours without only being a crappy stand-in. Do you hope to see Agents able to act as a backup of a profession, or completely separated from them?

Then something is wrong and must be fixed, thats my opinion.

Yes, we need a fix. I think that's what they're trying to do with the new FP system, but I guess we'll see what happens.

[Cyberleet]

Can say that I really like the design, feel and idea of agent and hope to see that implemented better in practice

Rabid stealthgame-fan here btw <3

[Gatester]

FP's would have been better altogether without the massive init debuff, and just a nanoskill penalty or cost penalty, and were very short duration. On my 30 I used enforcer, fixer, NT, soldier, trader, MP, and plain agent to various levels of effectiveness, but often I was left with additional vulnerabilities because I was stuck in one form or another.

If I could FP a prof, automatically get the max health, runspeed, HE+cost buffs and the FP went away after 60 seconds then I could use it to gank based on the situation from conceal, and not run around as a weaker version of another profession.

I am THE sniper in any FPS but I don't quite get to play that way with agent. My ability to suprise an opponent is limited to one debuff and tranq.

[Satisguard]

1st off, I dont have an agent. But my old guild leader was one and he made some vids I watched. I was impressed with the skill a good agent has to time swaps/casts/perks. Agents get to go though hell every time a nano or prof changes, just to keep a wee bit of an edge.
We dueled alot testing gear imps symbs and what not... so I was on the recieving end like the OP, but for my buddy to win, he had to swap 4 weapons while being behind me to do so.
Simply put, IMHO agents = skill, they cant just 1234 pew pew. CH may suck for the agents target, but most have something to change that, if not team a sol in BS for RI spam... lol

[Cyberleet]

Update: It's 20 second recharge now, doubt it will be unlocked from agent-repetoir.

CH may suck for the agents target, but most have something to change that, if not team a sol in BS for RI spam... lol

Imo, soldier should be dead before casting RI/TMS when meeting a good agent that successfully performs a sneak-attack (the manuevrer, not special-attack) with temp-buffs up...an agent out on the open on the other hand.

Soldier is more buildt for dead-on combat, and to eliminate targets that way while surriving.

At least how I see it. We lack a lot of offensive power and damage in both pvm/pvp to cope. + Escape and space-nanos should be improved.

[sultryvoltron]

at least how i see it. We lack a lot of offensive power and damage in both pvm/pvp to cope. + escape and space-nanos should be improved.

qft.