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Thread: Friday with Means - Feb. 18th, 2011: 10th Anniversary Party in Montreal - June 25th!

  1. #101
    If they wouldnt have made these deadlines and these anouncements about the engine, a lot more people would have stopped paying for this game earlier.
    I can see some financial advantage here that isnt really benefiting the customers..
    meep

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by omegahealer View Post
    People saw the engine, and those that know enough of game coding understand that moving from one engine to another is not easy when your code is not good documented and the engine you are converting to is also in beta phase and has to work on other games too.
    I don't understand coding, yet I understand dates. I am sorry, but for me a delayed appointment from my side decreases my buisness credit by alot. And remember -" There is always a bigger fish. " So yes, I'd rather if FC did not say ANY date at all. They would still have some credit in my eyes.

    PS: This is a personal opinion, not trying to pick on the company, just trying to tell you why do some people moan about reponsibility and unfilled promises.

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  3. #103
    The issue with engine is that it mainly looks like Vaporware, just like Duke Nukem Forever, promises and then soon and then fail and then more promises etc...

    Not just credible not giving out schedule they can keep... Should have been quiet and let people spam their hearts content... ;D
    Ekarona 220/30 Female Solitus Engineer, long term member of Northern Star and proper "poor" gimp.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekarona View Post
    The issue with engine is that it mainly looks like Vaporware, just like Duke Nukem Forever, promises and then soon and then fail and then more promises etc...

    Not just credible not giving out schedule they can keep... Should have been quiet and let people spam their hearts content... ;D
    Your point may have been valid, if Means had not posted so much information about it (and screenshots and the grass video).

    IF you were well informed, you'd know that previous GD's had picked different graphics engines which had not been originally developed by Funcom and in the end discovered that they could not handle AO fully.

    The Dreamworld engine, was actually based on.. the AO engine. So it's sorta of a full circle for AO. It's also one of the reasons why it's possible for the new engine to handle AO.

    We're not getting the exact same engine but a modified one. Some things meant for AoC is likely to be used in AO like crates, grass and things which are similar enough in both games.

    However some stuff will need to be changed/modified to fit the AO theme.

    We have a small but dedicated Dev Team which has delivered more than... well, if you are here long enough you'd know the sad years the community has gone through over the past decade.

    We have a Dream Team (pun intended), let's try to be more positive, and if you don't have any trust left in them... why are you still here?

    I've been here for 10yrs and I'm just leaning back and enjoying the game as it is now. I haven't even looked at the profession docs even tho I have a 220 agent, keeper, crat and enfo. I'm busy having fun in AO and not trying to pick it apart for it's flaws (or a missed deadline).

    Look at what previous Game Directors did, then look at Means.

    I said it before. Silirrion built a bridge between FC and the Community, Means walks across shook our hands and talked to us like a fellow gamer.

    Still, the man has to answer to his bosses and if they say "don't tell them anything until it's XX% completed" then... he can't say a word. I'm not saying that is exactly the case, but if you're willing to live in Norway, raise your family there and then move all the way to Canada with your family.... you must love your job.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by omegahealer View Post
    ... pay, play and enjoy the game or move on and find a game that you find fun and suits your needs.
    exactly THIS is what i did for now...
    all you defenders of not held promises and broken timelines made me laugh
    so hard... i really wanna thank you for this

    i'm fascinated by how many word's can be found to defend (as a consumer)
    so many differences... neither in giving answers to important questions nor
    a based statement (well... at least kintaii's post was rly honest... thank you
    for this )

    ah doh... i could go on...

    finally i've found a game that suits my needs... somehow...
    it's called RL
    the game itself is freaking ugly... but THE GRAPHIC rockz0rs! ^^
    Last edited by Mephoriouz; Feb 19th, 2011 at 21:57:08.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aptiva View Post
    The patch never existed.... There is no spoon

  6. #106
    instead of kevetching about Q1 or Q5123, pick one or more from the following list:

    shut up
    turn off your computer
    make tea
    go outside
    yell at the neighbors
    feed rocks to small children
    drive around with a pirate hat on and rubber chicken hanging from your mirror
    poke yourself in the eye with your left thumb
    stack pillows on your sleeping cat
    consider the unrest occurring around the world and compare it's importance with pissing and moaning about an mmo
    go wash, you stinky @#%^
    eat an apple
    throw the core at a random passing car
    wear red or blue in south central Los Angles and time how long it takes to get shot/mugged
    try to figure out why lemons don't bounce very well
    shoot paperclips at your classmates
    swap the 'sugar' and 'salt' labels on the tins in the cabinet
    go away
    ____ Equipment
    Kopo: There's nothing wrong with the (NT) profession itself, it's just that the other 99.9% of us playing it are deluded & incompetent.
    Unzipped: I'm right, Schmorgi is right... everyone else is wrong and /org lazy.... yep... that pretty much sums up my thoughts.
    Mangle: .... even still the leveling curve seems steep. Why must there be an exponential leveling curve? Who the hell invented that crap with MMOs to begin with?
    deniska: malewerecat h8 for making me agree with Masta
    sobeguy:Anyhow, Marius was evil regardless. Gaute was evil too. They are like, the Bat Man and Robin of evil. They probably run around in tights and masks, making vaguely homoerotic comments, and generally meddling anywhere people are trying to have fun!
    Righteous:Sil is in the kitchen making some sandwiches, he says you're lying and doesn't know who you are.
    Sephiroth:you managed to bother two people with one sentence. Nice
    I Remember The Missing: Nepenthia, Naraya, Satenia.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    WHY, us knowing it's current state is not going to change it's launch date in any form
    Ofc that wouldn't change the date, but this 5 monthes with no news is just ... scarry i guess ? If there was at least some screenies, or playfield preview, or 1 assembled caracter to show us then believe me, i wouldn't get that upset.

    Also i'm saying that with total consideration of the limited team/budget AO got nowadays, amazing job done last year (dailies in front) & move on to Montreal wich shows some dedication.

    Even that said, WTB news on engine !
    Bitnykk/Bittorrent - young RL of AP & old emissary of CODE

  8. #108
    The graphics engine I can live without, what actually matters to me is when the rebalance will be done, as new efforts into twinking will be in vain, if everything changes.
    I can wear an armor that suddenly has less stats, or is set up to cast a nano that gets lvl locked..

    and that is where the broken promises comes in.
    if they fail to meed a deadline of "it will be out before friday", and don't because of a planned movement, then the short time planing skills are not good.
    When the long term planing skill also fail..
    Then how am I to know if I should sit back and enjoy the game, or hibernate till the change is done?
    Having a time-scale will tell me that till date X I can keep playing as it is.
    That is my main gripe about schedules.
    and for that I could even use a "not before X" as a date

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


    Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  9. #109
    lets see how we be.
    thumbs up for all the work.

  10. #110

  11. #111
    I think that Means should just come clean with all of us. At least then we will know. Dose the engine really exist or was it just a fance setup that everyone saw. is the only thing that is happening the rebalance. if so I'll never trust funcom again and most certainly won't play any more of there game's. It may not be Means fault but as he runs AO the whole thing is up to him to sort out.
    So Please Mean's - Sort It Out.
    Kintaii - Please make sure he reads these post's - its in his intrest.
    Last edited by Datch; Feb 20th, 2011 at 12:02:27.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Datch View Post
    I think that Means should just come clean with all of us. At least then we will know. Dose the engine really exist or was it just a fance setup that everyone saw. is the only thing that is happening the rebalance. if so I'll never trust funcom again and most certainly won't play any more of there game's. It may not be Means fault but as he runs AO the whole thing is up to him to sort out.
    So Please Mean's - Sort It Out.
    Kintaii - Please make sure he reads these post's - its in his intrest.
    It do exist.....
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  13. #113
    if means would claim tomorrow "ao gets the crysis 2 engine and u will be able to control ur characters with ur brain" some people would find 10000 excuses in 3 years why it's not done yet and why there are no pictures/videos/whatever =)

    (go for it means ^^)
    -[nitr0]-
    sexiest trox alive

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Your point may have been valid, if Means had not posted so much information about it (and screenshots and the grass video).

    IF you were well informed, you'd know that previous GD's had picked different graphics engines which had not been originally developed by Funcom and in the end discovered that they could not handle AO fully.

    The Dreamworld engine, was actually based on.. the AO engine. So it's sorta of a full circle for AO. It's also one of the reasons why it's possible for the new engine to handle AO.

    We're not getting the exact same engine but a modified one. Some things meant for AoC is likely to be used in AO like crates, grass and things which are similar enough in both games.

    However some stuff will need to be changed/modified to fit the AO theme.
    This is sort of nonsense. A rendering engine upgrade has nothing to do with resources used in AoC vs resources used in AO.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Many words
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    This is sort of nonsense. A rendering engine upgrade has nothing to do with resources used in AoC vs resources used in AO.
    IMO, the main benefit of using an in-house engine is that they can tell the in-house team which actually works on that engine to fix bugs as they appear. This is not quite as easy when it's an external product. This should reduce the work load on the coder(s) on the AO team which are integrating the new engine into AO.

    As for why we're not getting any new info every week... Isn't it obvious?
    Every time we've been given info, there have been whines about it not being good enough, it looking like crap, it being photoshopped and whatnot. Besides, it's a GFX engine. It's not like there's much to show till everything works at the same time.
    Should they pause development on some aspects for a while, to reduce the risk of things breaking, just to make some PR video which will be slaughtered by the neverending whines of the AO forums anyway? Or should they prioritize to actually finish the product?
    Last edited by Demoder; Feb 20th, 2011 at 18:17:14.
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    IMO, the main benefit of using an in-house engine is that they can tell the in-house team which actually works on that engine to fix bugs as they appear. This is not quite as easy when it's an external product. This should reduce the work load on the coder(s) on the AO team which are integrating the new engine into AO.
    Point is, they make new resources for AO, they don't use AoC graphics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    As for why we're not getting any new info every week... Isn't it obvious?
    Every time we've been given info, there have been whines about it not being good enough, it looking like crap, it being photoshopped and whatnot. Besides, it's a GFX engine. It's not like there's much to show till everything works at the same time.
    Should they pause development on some aspects for a while, to reduce the risk of things breaking, just to make some PR video which will be slaughtered by the neverending whines of the AO forums anyway? Or should they prioritize to actually finish the product?
    Probably because there's not a whole lot to tell. We were told recently that multiple ocean volumes were finally working. Some of us saw engine running in Oslo, and we've gotten screenshots and a bit of video showing how it progresses. One screenshot is about as good as 1000 screenshots, as that one shows it's possible to take one of the stuff, and so 1000 would just be more of the same.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  17. #117

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Point is, they make new resources for AO, they don't use AoC graphics.



    Probably because there's not a whole lot to tell. We were told recently that multiple ocean volumes were finally working. Some of us saw engine running in Oslo, and we've gotten screenshots and a bit of video showing how it progresses. One screenshot is about as good as 1000 screenshots, as that one shows it's possible to take one of the stuff, and so 1000 would just be more of the same.
    It might be to u that 1 screen shot is the same as any other - but all i've seen is rubika, non of shadowlands, Xan or APF - if the Engine is on target i would assume that they can take screen shots of any zone. so lets see some SL and APF etc . say give us a different zone shot each week - I think that would help lift ppls spirits a bit and show us that they are getting close to a release.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Datch View Post
    It might be to u that 1 screen shot is the same as any other - but all i've seen is rubika, non of shadowlands, Xan or APF - if the Engine is on target i would assume that they can take screen shots of any zone. so lets see some SL and APF etc . say give us a different zone shot each week - I think that would help lift ppls spirits a bit and show us that they are getting close to a release.
    They showed Pandemonium the other week. It may be that each SL zone requires some kind of specific work done on it to work properly like it does in the old engine. It'd be nice to see new things, but I can wait a few more months np.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by ArienSky View Post
    The graphics engine I can live without, what actually matters to me is when the rebalance will be done, as new efforts into twinking will be in vain, if everything changes.
    I can wear an armor that suddenly has less stats, or is set up to cast a nano that gets lvl locked..

    Having a time-scale will tell me that till date X I can keep playing as it is.
    That is my main gripe about schedules.
    and for that I could even use a "not before X" as a date

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky
    Hear hear. As a tl5 keeper twink in the works, I'm tired of not having a deal, and having to deal with the bull****....

    Yeah I want a keeper buff. I briefly read keepers changes about a month ago and remember NoGoal or McKnuckle praising that keepers got more defensive tools, and that sounds good. Lets get that implemented pronto, engine can wait

    Thanks.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    This is sort of nonsense. A rendering engine upgrade has nothing to do with resources used in AoC vs resources used in AO.
    Ok let's assume the engine is out, boom!

    Now we have a nice new engine and.... same textures from the old one. Then the change would be almost meaningless. People will troll, demand and get their torches and pitchforks.

    They have been working on sneaking in new textures since last year, however if you have already made textures that work with the new engine from AoC which are similar enough to the AO version of it.. would you go and make it from scratch or just use the resource?

    I wouldn't bet on this... but I would think the AoC Dev Team is more familiar with the Dreamworld engine than the AO Dev Team, so chances are that they do talk to each other regarding issues that our devs are bumping into as they are trying to get things done at least when they were in Norway sharing offices.

    It's all done in-house, and the grass you see in the video that Means released looks awfully similar to the AoC grass.
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