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Thread: Friday with Means - Feb. 18th, 2011: 10th Anniversary Party in Montreal - June 25th!

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Ok let's assume the engine is out, boom!

    Now we have a nice new engine and.... same textures from the old one. Then the change would be almost meaningless. People will troll, demand and get their torches and pitchforks.

    They have been working on sneaking in new textures since last year, however if you have already made textures that work with the new engine from AoC which are similar enough to the AO version of it.. would you go and make it from scratch or just use the resource?

    I wouldn't bet on this... but I would think the AoC Dev Team is more familiar with the Dreamworld engine than the AO Dev Team, so chances are that they do talk to each other regarding issues that our devs are bumping into as they are trying to get things done at least when they were in Norway sharing offices.

    It's all done in-house, and the grass you see in the video that Means released looks awfully similar to the AoC grass.
    I can't really see any coherency in your post, but then again I didn't peruse the thread. Of course they talk to each other. Also, before they weren't sharing offices in Norway. Most of AoC were already in Montreal. They're sharing offices now. That video was made how long ago? It's supposed ot show off the capabilities of the engine, not the resources used by it. Making the engine is one task, reworking resources is another.

    Am I missing something, or do you actually say that it would be bad if they reuse the grass? Or are we getting into a metadiscussion about grass in AoC is not the same as grass in AO?
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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Now we have a nice new engine and.... same textures from the old one. Then the change would be almost meaningless. People will troll, demand and get their torches and pitchforks.

    They have been working on sneaking in new textures since last year, however if you have already made textures that work with the new engine from AoC which are similar enough to the AO version of it.. would you go and make it from scratch or just use the resource?

    I wouldn't bet on this... but I would think the AoC Dev Team is more familiar with the Dreamworld engine than the AO Dev Team, so chances are that they do talk to each other regarding issues that our devs are bumping into as they are trying to get things done at least when they were in Norway sharing offices.

    It's all done in-house, and the grass you see in the video that Means released looks awfully similar to the AoC grass.

    AO already has a bunch of high rez textures that the engine cant handle, even the old textures will look better under the new engine.

    There are not many textures that are the same from AoC to AO, most if not all of the work for AoC was completely new work.

    It's back and forth, the devs that are doing the work for AO's engine are Dreamworld experts from the design team of AoC's first days. They have made some large strides in AO's engine that the AoC team then incorporated into AoC. At the same time they have also talked to the AoC engine devs AND TSW engine devs fixing bugs that they found and fixed in their engine build.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Ok let's assume the engine is out, boom!

    Now we have a nice new engine and.... same textures from the old one. Then the change would be almost meaningless. People will troll, demand and get their torches and pitchforks.

    They have been working on sneaking in new textures since last year, however if you have already made textures that work with the new engine from AoC which are similar enough to the AO version of it.. would you go and make it from scratch or just use the resource?

    I wouldn't bet on this... but I would think the AoC Dev Team is more familiar with the Dreamworld engine than the AO Dev Team, so chances are that they do talk to each other regarding issues that our devs are bumping into as they are trying to get things done at least when they were in Norway sharing offices.

    It's all done in-house, and the grass you see in the video that Means released looks awfully similar to the AoC grass.
    You can't really exchange textures between AO and AoC.
    The style is completely different.
    Textures really aren't that universal either; they're for a specific model with a specific UV set.
    There's a few exceptions, where textures could be exchanged, but you can count these on a single hand probably.

    However, the game will look better in the new engine even without a texture upgrade.
    Improved lighting and shadows does a lot for a scene. It won't all come down to texture quality.

    But most importantly, the new engine will make AO compatible with newer machines again and allows the game to last another 10 years.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Ok let's assume the engine is out, boom!

    Now we have a nice new engine and.... same textures from the old one. Then the change would be almost meaningless. People will troll, demand and get their torches and pitchforks.

    They have been working on sneaking in new textures since last year, however if you have already made textures that work with the new engine from AoC which are similar enough to the AO version of it.. would you go and make it from scratch or just use the resource?

    I wouldn't bet on this... but I would think the AoC Dev Team is more familiar with the Dreamworld engine than the AO Dev Team, so chances are that they do talk to each other regarding issues that our devs are bumping into as they are trying to get things done at least when they were in Norway sharing offices.

    It's all done in-house, and the grass you see in the video that Means released looks awfully similar to the AoC grass.
    Yes, that is Exactly what is going to happen and it's not been a secret at all. No, it will most definitely not be a meaningless visual change. Building resources like textures and models does not require you to be familiar with an engine, only with the capabilities of said engine.
    There's no AoC trees being used, for one, the grass might be similar, but chances of it being the same are pretty low. Having a proof of concept video isn't the same as showing the final product, so the grass could look completely different. A bit of grass isn't quite the same as using a ton of other resources. Particularly when the games are so vastly visually different. One is a future vision with alternative dimensions where technology was vastly superior, the other is a fantasy romp through dilapidated old shacks and crumbling temples. There's not much visual similarity at all. And as was said many times previously in official responses, making excessive visual updates to textures in various areas will pose a problem for the visual style of the game, as some things with high quality sit and look out of place next to low resolution visuals.
    Some things will be updated at launch, some things will sneak in updated versions as time goes by.

    And that's not even taking into considerations the legal ramifications of using resources from one game developed under one publisher in another developed under a different publisher...
    Last edited by Mastablasta; Feb 21st, 2011 at 09:31:13.
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    A question that's been on a lot of people's minds - when does Q1 2011 end for FC?
    Around end of 2012 I think
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  6. #126
    No about 2015 Q2 and it will be released in the back of a van parked in car park out side a 7/11 in Montreal - They got another party to sort out. 'No Date's just Parties'.
    And to any clanners on RK2 - Omni are moving to RK1 cause u smell
    Last edited by Datch; Feb 21st, 2011 at 13:51:00.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Datch View Post
    And to any clanners on RK2 - Omni are moving to RK1 cause u smell
    pls do so... omni is dead on rk1 atm (tl5+7-wise). so you wont feel a big difference to rk2 maybe you can bring some ball-implants with you and a better leadership.^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by Means in Friday with Means - February 24th, 2011 - The dust is settling
    We are not going to be able to release the engine in Q1 but we are still hoping for an "Early Beta" in Q1 or early Q2

  8. #128
    You know, other than the statement quoted is the dudes sig above...

    Originally Posted by Means in Friday with Means – September 24th, 2010 – Questions and Answers about the new Engine
    With the increased scope of supporting both clients a Christmas launch is becoming less and less likely…but a Q1 2011 launch seems relatively certain.
    I can't find any "official" release date for this AO Engine update. I hope you boneheads aren't actually using this statement as the bases for all this whining and crying about how "supposedly" an AO update could never happen by the time stated above. You guys do have something more "official" to go on, right??

    I mean come on!!

    "..seems relatively...",

    For real??

    This is why all your panties are in a bunch? Doesn't seem very concrete to me. Seems more like a casual comment made by a caffeine deprived coder who's been up for a week straight.. "Yeah, seems relatively certain that i'm gonna take a crap today, but if I don't it's cool, you know?"

    Please tell me there's something more out there to warrant all this panty bunching.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Roswell View Post
    Please tell me there's something more out there to warrant all this panty bunching.
    They can't, there isn't as far as I'm aware.
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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Roswell View Post
    I can't find any "official" release date for this AO Engine update.
    So your opinion is that the Game Director's 'Questions and Answers' thread is not 'official'? Check the last line of the linked quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    With the increased scope of supporting both clients a Christmas launch is becoming less and less likely…but a Q1 2011 launch seems relatively certain.
    That's like saying you do not believe in guns after someone shoots you. You might be against the use of guns, but it does not make the fact that you were just shot any less real.


    My personal opinion is that various time frames for an 'expected' release of the graphics engine update have been stated at different times in the past, but nothing was released. Therefore the skepticism of so many is warranted.
    Soon™ no longer works.
    Last edited by Tazalanche; Feb 22nd, 2011 at 00:28:33.
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  11. #131
    So which is it? An official statement of a time that they are most likely going to launch the engine, or a complete lack of info about the engine?!
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    So which is it? An official statement of a time that they are most likely going to launch the engine, or a complete lack of info about the engine?!
    I think people would be happy with a: 'We're still on Track' Statement.
    Or appeased somewhat by a 'The Engine has been delayed' Statement.

    Personally I think the engine news is pointless till the Prof rebalancing is at least in a test state.
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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    So your opinion is that the Game Director's 'Questions and Answers' thread is not 'official'?
    Seems relatively certain that I don't believe that what Means said in that Q/A was an official release date, no. I think I made the pretty clear, do you agree?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    That's like saying you do not believe in guns after someone shoots you. You might be against the use of guns, but it does not make the fact that you were just shot any less real.
    Are we certain I was shot by said gun, or are we only relatively certain I was shot by said gun? Lets assume at this point that I believe in both guns and engine updates.

    "Roswell, it seems we are relatively certain that you were shot by a gun."

    or

    "We will be releasing the new AO engine update by the end of Q1 2011."

    If I were certain I was shot by a gun you can bet your ass I would believe in guns. If I were more than what seems to be relatively certain that the new AO engine update was going to be ready at the end of Q1 2011, and it didn't get released, then my panties would get wrinkled.

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  14. #134
    Man.... Use your cellbrainz a bit more. Ever if they had the new engine done 6 months ago, they prolly wouldnt tell us a thing. Do you know why? REBALANCE!

    New engine will not hit live before Rebalance changes. If we cry for anything, lets cry for something more usefull, LIKE rebalance... pff.
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  15. #135
    The Rebalance will not make ppl come back to the game. Yes it will make the toon's play better 'Thats not 'relatively certain'. But the engine will. ppl like nice graphics. The way AO game play works allows work arounds for toon's and still will after the rebalance. All the rebalance will do is put toon's back to like they were in the begining before all the pvp's kept sticking there or in.
    The Engine on the other hand will make new ppl play the game. they may not all stay but some will and the player base will expand.
    The game is great to play but the graphics are very very very Dated!!!
    Also the amount of CPU power needed is way more than most games because of the way the old engine renders everything.
    The Reblance is a good thing but don't think its more important than the engine but it's not.
    Last edited by Datch; Feb 22nd, 2011 at 13:55:35.

  16. #136
    No one will stick around to play after the engine launch if the game play is still broken. It is a well known fact that more people left due to game play issues then how the game looked.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Datch View Post
    The Rebalance will not make ppl come back to the game. Yes it will make the toon's play better 'Thats not 'relatively certain'. But the engine will. ppl like nice graphics. The way AO game play works allows work arounds for toon's and still will after the rebalance. All the rebalance will do is put toon's back to like they were in the begining before all the pvp's kept sticking there or in.
    The Engine on the other hand will make new ppl play the game. they may not all stay but some will and the player base will expand.
    The game is great to play but the graphics are very very very Dated!!!
    Also the amount of CPU power needed is way more than most games because of the way the old engine renders everything.
    The Reblance is a good thing but don't think its more important than the engine but it's not.
    Imagine that you are a new player. Nice apealing engine and such. You are learning how to game works. After a month, a new patch arrives: "We are completely changing everything in the game because in current stata, the game isn't very well balanced."
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    Imagine that you are a new player. Nice apealing engine and such. You are learning how to game works. After a month, a new patch arrives: "We are completely changing everything in the game because in current stata, the game isn't very well balanced."
    Imagine that you are experienced player. You have FINALLY, after years of playing, learned how the game works. Then the new patch arrives: "We are completely changing everything in the game because in current state, the game isn't very well balanced."

    Thus you are a new player again... having to learn pretty much everything from scratch again. Personally i don't want that. At all. I don't want to learn OLD game again from scratch. I rather play some completely NEW game if i have to learn all the stuff again anyway.

    All that was needed was some little tweaking to the most imbalanced or overpowered stuff in game. Not completely new game to learn.

    TL: DR
    New engine = great, bring it on asap!
    "the Great Rebalancing patch" = take your time, or better yet, forget about it already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoapTarder View Post
    its funny how AO requires so much grinding and effort to make any progress, both ingame and in Development

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    No one will stick around to play after the engine launch if the game play is still broken. It is a well known fact that more people left due to game play issues then how the game looked.
    This ^^
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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeliniyah View Post
    Thus you are a new player again... having to learn pretty much everything from scratch again. Personally i don't want that. At all. I don't want to learn OLD game again from scratch. I rather play some completely NEW game if i have to learn all the stuff again anyway.
    If you have to learn everything from scratch again, you actually play a new game.
    I, personally, looking forward for engine change and balancing. Even tho, my toon's toolset will change, everything else will be there. You know how you can get where.
    You just have to re-learn how to get it done. And i like it. ****e in some old soup.

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