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Thread: Friday with Means - February 25th, 2011 - The dust is settling

  1. #81
    Take your claws out of each other and ease back the throttle. There's no reason for such a knock-down-drag-out fight out of the gate in a FWM thread.
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  2. #82
    I guess we all already knew from the absence of information that the engine would actually not be released in q1 despite the lack of new information. Or perhaps because of said lack of new information.

    One question begs to be asked though: Why couldn't FC tell us until now? If where we're at is "hoping for a q2 beta" then surely it was known long ago that q1 wasn't going to happen. No?

    It doesn't exactly require a quantum leap of the mind to start wondering if perhaps we are indeed being kept in the dark for a reason. The facts support it. Little to no information and all requests for said information were ignored for as long as possible. And those that says it does are just laughable.

    While I can't and won't speak for others it seems that lately discussions on where the org (as in my own org) could migrate, are becoming more and more frequent. S&M kind of spearheaded that, the entire org (more or less) moving to another game. We'll see who is next.
    Last edited by Noobius76; Feb 26th, 2011 at 11:17:13.

  3. #83
    I think we're being kept in the dark because there's to many trolls who explode all over the forums at a glimpse of light (information).
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    I think we're being kept in the dark because there's to many trolls who explode all over the forums at a glimpse of light (information).
    I personally think it's business strategy. A mixture of not wanting to give out "negative information" and wanting to string people that are on the fence along for a few more months.

    Not giving out true information as soon as possible is not going to prevent trolling or flaming because trolling or flaming will occur whenever that information comes out anyway. So if FC have a choice between giving the information out early and getting kudos on that, or giving the information out as late as possible, they seem to use the business strategy above to make that choice. Losing face in the long term and gaining some more subscriptions in the short term.

    There is no such thing as being kept in the dark anyway. Players will obviously learn these things eventually. The only thing in question is how FC provides such information. Case in point is how FC is very quick and loud about positive stuff (years in advance and big smiles) but very late and "oh btw"'ish about negative stuff.

    I like the people that work for FC, they work hard. FC as a company however is a bit too much like a "politician" for my taste. At some point FC has to make a choice between wanting to be a realistic and dependable company that people will feel good about supporting or if they want to be a small company that uses icky politics to make up for shortcomings in management.

    And fyi, what I'm saying is based on a lot more than this engine stuff.

    I am "holding a torch" for the devs working on the game but I'm not holding a torch for the company itself. Unfortunately, my money is connected to the company and not the people working there. So no matter how hard they work, bad politics will block my support. Lately I have actually felt a little bit dirty whenever I renewed a subscription because I don't actually want to support this way of managing things.
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  5. #85
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    Windguaerd, your posts are even more depressing than Means ones. I hope you get paid for all this fanboy crap.
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  6. #86
    so... we still have 3 more docs to go,
    which have been coming roughly 2 weeks per doc = 6 weeks till completion

    and we know they will re-refine perk documents,
    maybe it will take 2 weeks per prof again + general perks = another 28+ weeks?

    and then, they will implement on test server and re-re-refine them = yet another months?

    sigh.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrangeline View Post
    I like the people that work for FC, they work hard. FC as a company however is a bit too much like a "politician" for my taste. At some point FC has to make a choice between wanting to be a realistic and dependable company that people will feel good about supporting or if they want to be a small company that uses icky politics to make up for shortcomings in management.

    And fyi, what I'm saying is based on a lot more than this engine stuff.

    I am "holding a torch" for the devs working on the game but I'm not holding a torch for the company itself. Unfortunately, my money is connected to the company and not the people working there. So no matter how hard they work, bad politics will block my support. Lately I have actually felt a little bit dirty whenever I renewed a subscription because I don't actually want to support this way of managing things.
    Well put, I concur

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    so... we still have 3 more docs to go,
    which have been coming roughly 2 weeks per doc = 6 weeks till completion

    and we know they will re-refine perk documents,
    maybe it will take 2 weeks per prof again + general perks = another 28+ weeks?

    and then, they will implement on test server and re-re-refine them = yet another months?

    sigh.
    Good time-estimate, I would love an official FWM one though, so we have a guaranteed date till which our twinks will still work.
    (But as Wrangeline points out, that is likely to cause a lot of terminated subscriptions until the change comes, again, many already have written on the forum that they read FWM just to know when to re-activate)

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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    so... we still have 3 more docs to go,
    which have been coming roughly 2 weeks per doc = 6 weeks till completion

    and we know they will re-refine perk documents,
    maybe it will take 2 weeks per prof again + general perks = another 28+ weeks?

    and then, they will implement on test server and re-re-refine them = yet another months?

    sigh.
    Add specials, items and maybe some skills rebalance.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lackofgravy View Post
    /trolls post

    wheres klod? I DEMAND A KLOD!
    Klod is having a life right now, thanks for asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    The Engine:

    I am sorry if there was any confusion with the information I gave out before concerning delays. When I mentioned that this move would result in significant delays I should have specifically mentioned that this of course would also affect the engine work. We are not going to be able to release the engine in Q1 but we are still hoping for an "Early Beta" in Q1 or early Q2...but at this point it is still dependent on the release of the new version of the engine in Conan as to how much resource we will get in getting it set up and running.
    Wow, does that mean that AoC won't be a resource hog anymore?
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  10. #90
    Actually we all know that there was going to be a beta first. It's a matter of paying attention
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  11. #91
    Wind has done quite a lot for the AO community over the years. Even if you don't always agree with him, he does deserve a level of respect. I like to think that everyone in the AO community does, actually, but times do seem to be changing.

    Optimist or Pessimist, your attitude, and the attitudes of others, are not going to change anything. So given the choice between happy or miserable, why choose to be miserable? If the game bothers you that much go play something that makes you happy.

    The rest of us will keep enjoying our time in AO.

  12. #92
    Where do you sign up for the engine beta?
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    Actually we all know that there was going to be a beta first. It's a matter of paying attention
    Or you know, being sane... seriously who would not think there was a beta before hand on a change this large... LE had a large beta for it before launch because of all the changes it made.
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  14. #94
    "hopefully Q2..."???

    So now we're not going to see these balance & engine updates hit live until after the 10th anniversary party?

    How much lower will the population be by then?

    Would it be an understatement if we said that the majority of the community is beyond jaded?

    That's sad.
    Maybe™ is the new Soon™.
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    At heart I am a vindictive, heartless, ruthless bastard and behaving in any other way is an effort for me.™
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    Our goal is to have a closed Beta running this year.™

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    "hopefully Q2..."???

    So now we're not going to see these balance & engine updates hit live until after the 10th anniversary party?

    How much lower will the population be by then?
    Wonder how many people go to the party and out of that group how many actually is still p(l)aying...

  16. #96
    Well apparently having a discussion based on what a person knows to be fact and reality can easily be overshadowed by trolls shouting fanboy and their twisted view of reality.

    I'm no longer going to comment on FwM/FwoM and just keep things to myself as I should have.

    See you in beta.
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  17. #97
    Might pop down to the 10th anniversary myself.. can't believe it's been nearly 10 years that I've been playing this game

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayria View Post
    I think we're being kept in the dark because there's to many trolls who explode all over the forums at a glimpse of light (information).
    every time they say something its a glimpse of light. 4 years later and constant fails on dates, now it just sounds like the 'boy who cried wolf' every time something about it comes out of one of their mouths
    what if the hokey pokey?...is what its all about
    I AM BORED!!!!
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Well apparently having a discussion based on what a person knows to be fact and reality can easily be overshadowed by trolls shouting fanboy and their twisted view of reality.

    I'm no longer going to comment on FwM/FwoM and just keep things to myself as I should have.

    See you in beta.
    you could also have reflected on the feedback you got, and ponder upon how you look to others in the way you represent your posts.
    Again, you can also just slam the door and go.

    Which is more productive?


    Indeed the debate here (in my opinion) should not be about who you know, but rather the ideas having a merit in themselves.
    For an example see Hyacinth Bucket.
    Flashing an "I am special"-card will almost always lead to a lost debate, so the general idea is to not play it.
    I know you as a good guy, but that post indeed sounded Fanboi-ish to me. I try to put that objectively, and by doing so you can decide if you want to embrace that, or work on sounding less fanboi-ish.
    ..or you can decide that everyone but you are wrong, and have "a twisted view of reality".
    Generally, if a lot of people have a perception and try to tell you so in polite argumentative ways, it is so.

    You might not perceive yourself as a fanboi, but the real gem for you would be to find out -why- others think that, rather than just state they have "a twisted view of reality".


    It is the same issue with FunCom, they are perceived all the time, based on their actions. They might not want to keep players in the dark, do not perceive them selves as "evil", but rather just having other things to do.

    Hyacinth Bucket (jump to 2:11) tries to help others, reminding drivers of the pedestrians on the walkway, but the driver perceives her as annoying.
    As she ignores the feedback provided to her, she is then perceived as rude, obnoxious and arrogant.

    Thank you for all your good work Windguaerd.
    But I am as sad to see you slam the door and call people that disagree with you names, as I am glad that it seems Means is getting the feedback and working on better information, rather than ignoring the feedback.

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky

    ::Edit::
    I have found a wikipedia link that explains how/when/why "name-dropping" is considered inappropriate/impolite.
    I hope it will help you
    Last edited by ArienSky; Feb 26th, 2011 at 22:11:05.
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


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    With the description / plate saying:
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    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Windguaerd View Post
    Well apparently having a discussion based on what a person knows to be fact and reality can easily be overshadowed by trolls shouting fanboy and their twisted view of reality.

    I'm no longer going to comment on FwM/FwoM and just keep things to myself as I should have.

    See you in beta.
    You've been throwing around the word "troll" a lot recently. You really should look up this word, or at least understand the difference between a troll and a customer complaint.

    Your name-dropping and insider-information claims (which are sickening, by the way) only show that people DO like to have more information. You yourself obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have sought out said information.

    Insulting the "view of reality" of people who (apparently) don't have the same access to information as you do is no better than the people who ask for more information in a ruder-than-usually-acceptable way.

    As for the "If you don't like AO GTFO" argument again (*yawn*). Can't you accept that people would like to voice their complaints and hope to hold FC to their personal standard BEFORE ending their contract? That's just normal business.

    Why do you need to attack the complainers and shield FC from the "trolls" who want to "tear down" the benevolent work of FC? Isn't this precisely the kind of attack you keep speaking out against?
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