End of skillbased AO ?

[Gridpain]

After the S7 weapons that you could equip if you met the level and prof requirements, now the Advi nano sheet made me wonder.

The morph nanos are "unique" per line, and the buff effectively cast depends not on the skills, but on the level.

So currently, you may have to twink or at least be decently equiped to cast Calia wolf at TL4 instead of wolf pup. After rebalance, there will be no need to.

Ok, for now, it's "only" the morphs, but if it's the direction FC is taking, I fear AO will loose what is making it different from other games...

[borriss]

Ok, for now, it's "only" the morphs, but if it's the direction FC is taking, I fear AO will loose what is making it different from other games...

I think you may be right... That to me aswell is a scary thought, but in a way it's good for the longevity of AO. However FC should make 2 "versions" of these weapons you're talking about from S7 for example.. Or make an alternative that requires alot of skills, and is slightly better. So that people who twinked into something would have a slight edge over someone who didn't

And for the buffs and wrangles and all that which is beeing changed, I really don't like that outcome of the rebalance... The fact that on AO you could bend limits, and force things on and keep it JUST out of beeing OE, that is special And we need to preserve that.

[Dummy]

Ok, for now, it's "only" the morphs, but if it's the direction FC is taking, I fear AO will loose what is making it different from other games...

I guess one can say that the "uniqness" of ao is one of the reasons for low population. And low population isnt really any good for making money. With that in mind its pretty obvious that fc, or any other company for that sake, easily trade away some uniqness for more costumers. If they really need those costumers.
Judging from the frequent advertising for the ig shop, they need.

[Gridpain]

I guess one can say that the "uniqness" of ao is one of the reasons for low population.

Yes ... but it's probably the main reason that AO will celebrate its 10th anniversary, instead of having shutdown servers 5 years ago.

[borriss]

I can't say that I agree with Dummy, I mean the uniqueness we speak of is that you can bend rules and get on really good items because you twink... What keeps the low population is rather the fact that levelling also needs a certain amount of twinking, it's very very dry and it's slow and pointless...

FC has adressed this alot, but that has a long way to go. Make people having to team out on the Brink's in Shadowlands again, and make it fun.. Make it easier to get on weapons that will do the job (lvl). And make it so that people don't get discouraged too quickly... Once people get a hang of AO chances are they won't let go

I do agree with Gridpain, that uniqueness is indeed what has kept that sparkle alive in AO for so long.. That along with some other unique aspects of AO, such as there beeing no "Global Cooldown" on skills and specials. This also making AO a game where you can make use of more Actions per minute than regular MMO's such as WoW and the likes that are out there.

[Xtremtech]

First off, AO was always a mix of skill and template based models. It has never been a pure skill-based game.

Secondly, Shadowlands took a lot more stuff away from skills based builds by introducing the perk system and also, because of the massive skills budget differentation caused by extending the game by another 200 levels (each Shadow level = ~10 RK levels) and the need for SL players to co-exist with non-SL players... level requirements had to be included.

Further developments in LE also minimised skills requirements.

There's really no way that you can un-ring this bell. The mix in AO between skills and template based systems has been moving more and more toward template and level based systems for years and years now.

You should expect more and more level and non-skill based character progression elements to be involved in AO, because the skills-based elements of AO's original system were not scaleable and would have caused major balance issues had they been extended without other controls being added.

AO will always have some elements of skills involved. They will never go away in the combat systems and there will always be twinking. But the idea of skills being the primary control over access to abilities is one that will probably continue to slip over time, to some degree. Though FC are certainly trying to maintain that concept as much as possible.

X

[Gridpain]

Well, there's a difference in level locking nano because skills have been boosted and people could cast stuff way before they should and what we are seeing here.

Imagine that Docs had 1 single heal from starter pack, that will scale depending on their level ... up to Life Giving elixir style, but always with 10 in MM BM reqs.
That's exactly what FC is proposing for advi morphs.

[Dummy]

Yes ... but it's probably the main reason that AO will celebrate its 10th anniversary, instead of having shutdown servers 5 years ago.

Agree. Ao is a game that attract a certain group of players, or certain players. But the reasons for the relatively steady playerbase is the same reasons that keeps it steady. Fc, you, me, we all hope for new players. But the danger is that when ao is changed so it attracts a wider range of players, this game maybe isnt any longer a game that attracts that certain group of players that we have today. It is a balancing act of epic proportions. But if you where fc, would you choose the income of todays players, or the income of 2 milllions wowkiddies?

@Borriss
I think we differs in opinions, but I cant really see the slow leveling. I actually think the leveling is too fast. For a newbie, it is already a pretty steep learning curve with loads of information to get a grasp on. Now you can jump to level 100 in a 2-3 weeks even as a froob, and practically make the learning curve close to impossible to handle.
The best we possibly can do to newbies is to bring the playing back, and take the leveling elsewhere

[Lackofgravy]

Delete hecklers and we will have a better time leveling. (said for the 500th time)

[Gatester]

I doubt a single group of nanos following this style sets forth a precedence which most of AO will follow, in fact it mostly just seems to be a matter of convenience rather than how FC wants to guide AO.

My issues are the use of Notum Repulsor but I am sure FC will adjust that aspect appropriately.


Consider if agent false profession to mimic forms were this way instead? As with the advy doc, having nanoskills determine yourabilities within a particular form and not the use of the form itself is probably the best way they can manage players who can change states.

[Ahndracorvid]

I guess one can say that the "uniqness" of ao is one of the reasons for low population. And low population isnt really any good for making money.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree. I believe very strongly that it isn't the "uniqueness" that causes the low population, but how little that uniqueness has been advertised by FC. Judging by recent reactions, even people who don't play AO seem to have been getting tired of seeing games that resemble the stereotype of the level-based fantasy game that lacks depth. They are already looking for an alternative.

FC has that alternative in AO. I hope after the engine is released they will use the opportunity to make enough noise about this game to draw people to the uniqueness of a game they've already been looking for. That would benefit everyone, wouldn't it?

[nanobots]

*quote from Means* We dont want lots of players. we want AO players.


tho yeah a bit higher pop wouldent hurt

[Rustytools]

After the S7 weapons that you could equip if you met the level and prof requirements, now the Advi nano sheet made me wonder.

The morph nanos are "unique" per line, and the buff effectively cast depends not on the skills, but on the level.

So currently, you may have to twink or at least be decently equiped to cast Calia wolf at TL4 instead of wolf pup. After rebalance, there will be no need to.

Ok, for now, it's "only" the morphs, but if it's the direction FC is taking, I fear AO will loose what is making it different from other games...

Whoa whoa. whoa. Go back here.

"end of SKILL-based ...."

further on

"there willl be no need for DECENT GEAR AND TWINKING."

Alright. Grid. I dont know who told you this. Buying alien armor for 1bil, poly cushions for 400mil, and then proceeding to twink, for the next 3 hours, symbiants, weapons, and more armor.

Is not skill. Never has been, never will be.

[Notcrattey]

After the S7 weapons

Most of them are pretty ineffective IF you twink. Save maybe the rifle, although cobra has potential to be better.

[Hometown]

Whoa whoa. whoa. Go back here.

"end of SKILL-based ...."

further on

"there willl be no need for DECENT GEAR AND TWINKING."

Alright. Grid. I dont know who told you this. Buying alien armor for 1bil, poly cushions for 400mil, and then proceeding to twink, for the next 3 hours, symbiants, weapons, and more armor.

Is not skill. Never has been, never will be.

Maybe this attitude is why you are so successful?

[Gridpain]

Alright. Grid. I dont know who told you this. Buying alien armor for 1bil, poly cushions for 400mil, and then proceeding to twink, for the next 3 hours, symbiants, weapons, and more armor.

Is not skill. Never has been, never will be.

Alright "Still" ... my post wasnt claiming that twinking was "skill" (even if you need some skills to twink... not only creds like you seems to think) But that I feared that FC was taking the direction of equipement and nano effect depending on level of char rather than on it's skills (char skills, not player skills)

[Rustytools]

Alright "Still" ... my post wasnt claiming that twinking was "skill" (even if you need some skills to twink... not only creds like you seems to think) But that I feared that FC was taking the direction of equipement and nano effect depending on level of char rather than on it's skills (char skills, not player skills)

O cool. So just a misunderstanding on my part.

And level-based gear is a problem why?

[n3oheals]

Level-based gear would remove some of the effectiveness of twinking and therefor one of the most unique parts of AO.

I'm fine with some easy to get equipment but for example the s7 weapons need to be nerfed just a little. It's kinda silly that from lvl 150 and needing 1200+ in a weapon skill you got to lvl 151 and only needing 800 and still do more dmg.

[Rustytools]

Level-based gear would remove some of the effectiveness of twinking and therefor one of the most unique parts of AO.

I'm fine with some easy to get equipment but for example the s7 weapons need to be nerfed just a little. It's kinda silly that from lvl 150 and needing 1200+ in a weapon skill you got to lvl 151 and only needing 800 and still do more dmg.

Ah yes, the twinking and uniqueness of anarchy...

The good old days, folks. When you ran around with a gluegun, excited that you managed to put in 100 imps and the guy in. The 1-160, 4/3 gun. You're excited you can solo a legionnaire.

Twinking today...

Please roll a 220 first.


See that right there is enough to sort of ruin twinking and the skill system once and for all. A great system it is, if you're willling to first spend a few months of your life on a second job.

I keep hearing the old timers to tell me to get dedicated. And I keep replying that this, ladies and gentlemen, is an online game. Imagine that: you're supposed to have fun playing this, people, from day one. Not day 145 1/2.

Maybe once upon a time, when the items you equiped with your skills were blunt peasant executions, sol fires, russian good days, or anything else, twinking was a nice and unique aspect of AO. Today, it's just level your agent/sol/fix to 25, get a 50 peren on with _____ list of items, hit the nasc hecks, ely hecks, rinse repeat with 200 version of said weapon.

I fail to see how anyone genuinely is able to fool themselves into thinking they achieve anything with the skill system today. It's all been done, and it's all been tested. And in the end, it doesn't require any sort of higher intelligence whatsoever. What it does require is a steadfast dedication to AO which some would dare claim borders on the insane, considering that you should be logging in each day for recreational purposes.

So while I see the point. I really do. Maybe it's time for an outdated system to go.

[Notcrattey]

I fail to see how anyone genuinely is able to fool themselves into thinking they achieve anything with the skill system today. It's all been done, and it's all been tested. And in the end, it doesn't require any sort of higher intelligence whatsoever.

You've never done really low level twinking then, people are CONSTANTLY pushing the limits there. And it takes a lot more than just the gear to accomplish it.