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Thread: Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayice View Post
    Some of the MC reqs look kinda steep... and how exactly is the nano burst action going to work? Are the nanobot shelter nano's all the DtN we're getting now? Most importantly, why has the duration on the nr debuffs been slashed into a fourth?

    I noticed our SL roots have been removed... what gives? I can almost see the big grin on every enfo's face. I'm really hoping I've read the spread sheet wrong.
    Rage is getting both a cooldown and the RS buff removed, from what i hear but that was a few months back so you can breath out again.

  2. #22
    I'm so rolling a 3rd NT once rebalance hits live!!!!

    **drool**

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by streppelchen View Post
    i had a look at it and seriously i'm already loving it
    just the thing with nano burst isn't clear yet to me, but i'm in hurry so maybe if i got some time i'll get the point too
    Nano burst is a system for charging up a special effect action. Certain nukes will trigger the counter, and then you can get various effects out of firing it off.

    Prouver que j'ai raison serait accorder que je puisse avoir tort.

  4. #24

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayice View Post
    Some of the MC reqs look kinda steep... and how exactly is the nano burst action going to work? Are the nanobot shelter nano's all the DtN we're getting now? Most importantly, why has the duration on the nr debuffs been slashed into a fourth?

    I noticed our SL roots have been removed... what gives? I can almost see the big grin on every enfo's face. I'm really hoping I've read the spread sheet wrong.
    The SL roots will be depreciated after the rebalancing - Same with 'crats and Traders, roots/snares/calms will be just as effective in SL as they are on RK and won't require any "specialized" versions to be effective. So no worries, you're fine on that front.

    Like I posted earlier, we don't expect you guys to reach the maximum MC reqs in the doc - We want you to try to squeeze in every last single bit of MC you can in order to boost your damage as far as it goes. With the new Matter Creation scaling on some of the nukes, twinking actually becomes a viable activity for NTs across all level ranges.

    Burst action is pretty simple - It's basically a special attack the NT will have access to (similar to, say, Fling Shot or Brawl or whatever). When you cast a nuke, you get a counter on yourself - The more of these counters you have, the more the Burst will do when you press the big button. The Burst's *effect* depends on (A) how many counters you have, and (B) what damage type you have selected under the new system. If you have Fire selected, you'll do a big DD-nuke to your target; if you have Ranged selected you'll do an evades debuff. The system has a bit more complexity to it than that, but I'll get a better writeup for it together later.

    The shelter nano lines are the only ones that give you DtN in your nano buffs at the moment, outside of the reworked NS mkII.

    NR debuffs are being lowered across the board, and nano resist itself will also most likely receive a... rather stern looking at... in the near future.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kintaii View Post
    nr debuffs are being lowered across the board, and nano resist itself will also most likely receive a... Rather stern looking at... In the near future.

    thank god!!!!!!!!!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Phargus View Post
    Humm, what does nano burst do?
    I think, but I'm not 100% that it works like this;

    We cast our 'base nuke' (Detonation matrix / Garuk's Improved Viral Assault)

    The 'nano burst' builds up in our NCU, Mk1 for first cast Mk2 for 2nd, etc.

    we unleash our 'built up' nanoburst for a large debuff of evades, damage, reflects, AC, etc or a large damage hit, based on how much MC we have, and which element we are running.

    at least, thats how I think it works.
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    ...
    I had the gasoline ready, just so you know.

    I didn't get my critting nukes, but the DMG burst seems to do the job just fine.

    Still, I feel that some other professions will cry after doubles/triples in the end...

  8. #28

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    I think, but I'm not 100% that it works like this;

    We cast our 'base nuke' (Detonation matrix / Garuk's Improved Viral Assault)

    The 'nano burst' builds up in our NCU, Mk1 for first cast Mk2 for 2nd, etc.

    we unleash our 'built up' nanoburst for a large debuff of evades, damage, reflects, AC, etc or a large damage hit, based on how much MC we have, and which element we are running.

    at least, thats how I think it works.
    Any of the four nuke lines will place a "charge" counter in your NCU - Once you have "Burst Mk2" you may use the Burst action - The more counters you have, the bigger the effect will be. As noted above, the type of Burst you do depends on which of the damage changing actions you have active.

    The number of counters you are able to receive depends on your SL Specialization - At Spec 1 you will be able to stack three counters on yourself (IE: "Burst Mk3"). At Spec 4 you will be able to stack six counters on yourself (IE: "Burst Mk6", which is the current maximum.

    You can only utilize the Burst effect if you are wielding the Cyberdeck (either SL, AI, or LE [and take a look at the cyberdecks page in the nanodoc]).
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  9. #29
    I'm having some trouble calc'ing how i atm can reach even 3k mc, i hope perks will boost that a lot so we can use those toys *self*

    Other than that, it's looking really good, the taunt is evil haha

    I'm not sure how Enfraam's Massive Notum Cache works, i'm *guessing* it's a 5k refill self, but no cooldown and recharge -1 sec, does that mean i can spam it as much as i want or is it just some typo in the docs? would make sence.

    Edit, no looks like a 20k refill nano we can use on others and we get ou self nanopool nerfed a bit to 5k. alright.
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 1st, 2011 at 20:38:17.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  10. #30
    Well you get a 155 self mc buff, quantum thought (+140 when you count in the 15 mc removed from the int/psy buff) so it's doable. Expect to have to sacrifice some defensive hud items etc unless you have access to high level towers/contracts though


  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Since I know you guys are gonna comment on this, I'm going to go ahead and cut everyone off at the pass here and say the following: The nano document includes figures reaching up into 3500 Matter Creation. WE DO NOT EXPECT NANO-TECHNICIANS TO BE ABLE TO REACH THIS AMOUNT ANY TIME SOON. We purposely went larger than the amount of MC that NTs can currently reach as to give ourselves a little wiggle room on the top end and to enable us to add in additional +MC gear down the road. So no - 3500 MC is an impossible goal that you currently cannot reach.


    Currently listed at 15, but should all be 20 (this goes for AoE nukes and AoE DoTs). Will be updated in next document release.
    <3Love<3 to you for making this
    an endgame where we have different setups, not just everyone having everything
    Next step: remove the skill caps, so you can min/max all you like.

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


    Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  12. #32
    And masta, how about that 'q' thinhy? will it be working like the other profs? spill the beans a bit about that one if you have any info
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  13. #33

    Funcom employee

    Your cyberdecks are now effectively a regular weapon and will attack just the same as any other - So yes, you can press Q. XD
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  14. #34
    why cyberdeck not use nanoinit and NanoRes as defence skill?
    The Clan Messiah statement
    You hit Nirvelle with nanobots for 7110365 points of radiation damage.
    Alternity: I never initiated a serious dialog

    "... who are you, then?"
    "I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good" (c) Goethe

    |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| ||\____
    |.............Vodka-Vodka..........| ||','''|'''''''\____,
    |_______..... _________________| ||__|'__|_____||<
    '''''(@)'(@)''''''''''''''''''''''**|(@)(@)******| (@)*

  15. #35
    Couple of things concern me:

    Please tell me you have not taken the DM visual from us!

    I'm quite sad that the NTs warps have been reduced to a generic grid nano too, I liked the unique nature of NT warps.

    No local cooldown on AoEs? Seems like a missed chance there to me...

    Apart from that I'm liking what I see - seems like NTs will become a very technical and busy prof to play.
    Sheffsam (200/0 Agent) E - Drsheffsam (200/0 Doc) E - Sheffsammy (200/0 NT) E - Sheffie (200/0 Trader) E - Sheffix (200/0 Fixer) E
    Sheffs (220/30/70 Doc) Crit - Nabcake (220/30/70 NT) Cheap & Effective - Sheff (220/30/67 Agent) Equip Undecided
    RK2 Neutral - Grey Area

  16. #36
    Oh ok, i see that now, 30m range and mc as attack skill/dodge range as def, and a decent crit.
    So nt's will want crit buffs now? hehe ^^
    I though it would work like some kind of "autonuke" feature that would pump out nukes until released or something like that, well i guess having it as a regular weapon is easier to to do

    Ranged init as init skill? I hope i can go full def with 1/1
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Apr 1st, 2011 at 19:30:36.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  17. #37
    Initial thoughts:

    1. NS1 should be 200% reflect. It's purely there to be made invulnerable for 15 seconds so at least make it count. Or is this supposed to be used only for PvM 'oh shi-' moments?

    2. NS2 attack time should be able to insta cast, for a clearly in combat + under attack short-duration emergency nano (For an admittedly rare nano, which now appears to be our only major in combat defence, this seems fair).

    3. I really, really wish the detaunts worked like aura's with 10s ticks. Having to break your casting cycle all the time for detaunts is incredibly lame.

    3a. Taunts: why?! Once the 15 seconds of NS immunity is over you're screwed. Can't think of a single situation where this may be helpful. If these were detaunts, however...

    4. Do the team remove root nano's effect the caster? If so the self/team should probably lock each other out.

    5. I know Kintaii has explained about the rise in MC, but why? It seems every other profession has had their nano set built around what they can achieve currently, not something that they 'hope we can reach in the distant future'. I can see why you might want to do this, but it's going to take a LOT of stuff to bridge a 1200ish MC gap.

    6. Nano costs. In a word, ridiculous. With the changes to wealth we will have a much smaller nanopool. At the full 55% nanocost cap (nanomage) most nukes look like they are around 1.5-2k nano per cast, and even higher for other breeds. We will run out of nano so fast we will need the 20k nanopoints hit every 20 seconds, not 2 minutes. Rethink them, please.

    DPS too high? don't make me laugh. If an NT can continuously nuke for even a full minute with these costs, I'd be very surprised.
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  18. #38

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheffsammie View Post
    Please tell me you have not taken the DM visual from us!

    I'm quite sad that the NTs warps have been reduced to a generic grid nano too, I liked the unique nature of NT warps.

    No local cooldown on AoEs? Seems like a missed chance there to me...
    I'll make sure the DM effect remains somewhere.

    I dislike the removal of the 'uniqueness' of the NT warps too, but it was done with a good reason and *may* be seeing a return if we can get the work done that we want. But no, I'm not a fan either, just kinda one of those things.

    No local cooldown on AoEs because we want people to focus on casting AoEs if they decide to do so - You can kite, but you can't nuke while kiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Initial thoughts:

    1. NS1 should be 200% reflect. It's purely there to be made invulnerable for 15 seconds so at least make it count. Or is this supposed to be used only for PvM 'oh shi-' moments?

    2. NS2 attack time should be able to insta cast, for a clearly in combat + under attack short-duration emergency nano (For an admittedly rare nano, which now appears to be our only major in combat defence, this seems fair).

    3. I really, really wish the detaunts worked like aura's with 10s ticks. Having to break your casting cycle all the time for detaunts is incredibly lame.

    3a. Taunts: why?! Once the 15 seconds of NS immunity is over you're screwed. Can't think of a single situation where this may be helpful. If these were detaunts, however...

    4. Do the team remove root nano's effect the caster? If so the self/team should probably lock each other out.

    5. I know Kintaii has explained about the rise in MC, but why? It seems every other profession has had their nano set built around what they can achieve currently, not something that they 'hope we can reach in the distant future'. I can see why you might want to do this, but it's going to take a LOT of stuff to bridge a 1200ish MC gap.

    6. Nano costs. In a word, ridiculous. With the changes to wealth we will have a much smaller nanopool. At the full 55% nanocost cap (nanomage) most nukes look like they are around 1.5-2k nano per cast, and even higher for other breeds. We will run out of nano so fast we will need the 20k nanopoints hit every 20 seconds, not 2 minutes. Rethink them, please.

    DPS too high? don't make me laugh. If an NT can continuously nuke for even a full minute with these costs, I'd be very surprised.
    #1 & #2: Will relay these to Genele, but yes - It's mainly to be used for a PvM "ah ****" moment.

    #3: I can pass it along, but I think we want to keep this one as being an active tool for now.

    #3a: We're working on some additional functionality with that one - We'll talk more about it if/when we have more to share. =)

    #4: Yes they do, and they do. =D

    #5: Like I said before, we want to make sure that we have a bit of wiggle room to play around with. In the document, with 2700 MC, your average DPS *from nukes alone* is close to -2000 damage; this isn't too far off from what NTs currently from their end-game nukes (IU/Double/DM rotation), and is *just* the nuking line - This doesn't include any AoEs, Burst effects, DoTs, and the like. Most NTs at end game these days have somewhere between 2200-2800 MC, so their damage won't be effected *that* badly. That said, if you want to do *more* damage? It's time to take a look at your setup and start adding in more +MC items - Even if it means you have to drop defensive gear. Decisions, decisions.

    #6: Nanocosts are one of those things that we may tweak and change as we go further along - With any of the nano documents we've released, the numbers are very easily changed and always malleable - The main thing is to ensure that we're on the right track with the *design*. Long as we're making the right things we can go and tweak numbers all day long. =)

    #7: wait there was no #7 never mind ><
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  19. #39
    1. -50 attack range debuff sounds like still useless... many players and mobs have buffed attack range much more then 40m.
    2. Izgimmer's Enflaming Self-Righteousness
      What? NT planned be tank??? (wipe hate list and after it instant 60k taunt).
    3. DPS at 220/20+ PVM
      Dots
      -1016,1
      Dots when you can't AOE:
      -745
      Nukes:
      -3810,75
      AOE Nukes + AOE Dot
      -1671,1
      Total DPS
      -4826,85 possibly too high
      I can't undestand this calculation. I see, this is not calculated time for casting, recharging and cooldown - NT not soldier who can hold permanent DPS from start to end. For landing all this nanos need time. Regular situation on SL-mishes - NT cant do good DD if mob not so fat and died fast.
      If compare to other design doc's NT need DD buff!
    4. Blind icons very identical. It's not so good.
    5. Many nanos want so much nano for cast. This is really needed? If needed, what compensate it?
    6. -5k MC in the NullitySphere Mk1- strong nerf. Sounds like evac only/enemy alpha breaker nano. If be removed visual effects what can easy detect it, and be removed from "Nano target NCU" - It have some chance, otherwise it's not so useful because you just be stayd in the root/snare/stuns this time.
    7. Nanobot Guard renamed to Nullity Sphere Mk2 (nanopool drain removed).
    8. Shelters buffed - now it 100% conversation dmg to nano for all breeds and gain 45% reflect. Anyway with so much nanocost - NT without nanopool very very fast.
    Last edited by Mavritanic; Apr 2nd, 2011 at 06:00:37.
    The Clan Messiah statement
    You hit Nirvelle with nanobots for 7110365 points of radiation damage.
    Alternity: I never initiated a serious dialog

    "... who are you, then?"
    "I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good" (c) Goethe

    |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| ||\____
    |.............Vodka-Vodka..........| ||','''|'''''''\____,
    |_______..... _________________| ||__|'__|_____||<
    '''''(@)'(@)''''''''''''''''''''''**|(@)(@)******| (@)*

  20. #40
    All in all I like the changes a lot.

    Some questions tho:

    1) While its nice to see us getting more NR while being alone, in relation to what other profs got the gain seems substantially lower. Or was it decided that our current NR is too high and that we would need less NR while counting in doc buffs. (pre: 140im+142inr+40iic[+100infmap]=322[422] vs. post: 250im)

    2) for the same line: incompatiblity with ibehe/Kraken essence (results in loss of nr unless a doc is around, way more ncu usage that way). Or is that the silent wink that NTs should be low hp?

    3) NCU cost: ZOMG. I believe that is a bit on the high side... 685 ncu for our benefitial nanos (with ns2, without np buff) does seem somewhat excessive. Sure, one can make choices, e.g. skip nanorange or max nano etc but at the end of the day one might like to still be able to fit in a hot and doc buffs without the need of a fixer in the team.

    4) Nano Bursts: I frigging *adore* those. One quick question tho:
    Code:
    User	Lock	Matter Creation	10
    will that be affected be -skill lock?

    5) NanoRange debuffs: very nice to see that line revived. Bit of a pity that weapon range was not added. Who knows, maybe agents will get that.

    6) Nano Heal line: NICE! Finally we will have a way to refill that trox enfs nanopool without using TNS. Very useful for places like db1 (yellow!) and team pvp vs e.g. engis (demo) trader or shade (sp, dissi) too. Might be needed for ourselves, too. Havent looked at our own standart combat nano spending yet.

    7) Izzi's Wealth: gone, and imo no longer needed in its 20k form. The new lower versions should do fine.

    8) Nullity Sphere: no root is nice, 15s duration is ok. About ns1: pity with the debuff really... can still refresh absorbs tho and cast nano heal. And would still allow weap users to shoot... suppose the lowbies can live with it. About ns2: wtfh At least set the dmg2nano a bit lower. Also: Will we need to recast the long-term shelter after each ns2? If so it would be nice to have the shelter that was running before ns2 re-executed at the end.

    9) Special Taunt: saaaaaaaaaaaaaavvveeeee teh doc! ^^

    10) Nukes & DoTs: hmmmmm, yesssss ... ... ... brb, new pants.


    So, yea, all in all I like it a LOT. Still need to look over the nano costs [they seem pretty high] but basically this looks rrrrreeal shiny :]


    :edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavritanic View Post
    why cyberdeck not use nanoinit and NanoRes as defence skill?
    very, very good question.
    Last edited by sannz; Apr 1st, 2011 at 19:58:06. Reason: missread ns2 docu
    keep smiling
    Najade s, Najengi s, Najngi s, Najmp s, Shadysannz, Toccata, Frobos, Chaodoc, Najcrat, Najtank
    sannz - ENL - NR01-GOLF-11
    a time of changing has begun; the leaves are fallen and undone; inside my spirit starts to run; and all my fears are overcome. - Chiasm, Rewind, 2005

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