BS changes

[Lusos101]

I said it before and I say it again. In a game where such an obscenelly huge diference between a PvP twink and most leveling toons can exist, imposing a PvP playfield like BS on the playerbase is a stupid concession from the developers to a few Epeen driven players. Of all the many big mistakes made by FC's developers in all these years these are the 2 most damaging. Allowing for such disparity to exist, let me correct myself, actively creating it and imposing it on the playerbase. And imposing a PvP playfield where the majority of the players have to endure being used as targets for the lols of a few self proclaimed "badasses".

Just shut the ****ing things down.

[Niradriel]

You realize I'm talking about them having like 10% hp, about to die, then they rush the nearest portal and sneak somewhere in between there WITH me fighting them breaking agg and just stay in sneak indefinately - or sneak off eventually I guess. I have an agent (and a shade) but thats is just retarded. No one should be allowed to break combat like that.


Quoth the queen of the spiral. What a tragic loss.

Actually, that keeps them out of combat more, than the current situation, where they cant escape, die and respawn anywhere on the map with no debuffs.
I cannot see your point in defending this position.

[Gridpain]

I said it before and I say it again. In a game where such an obscenelly huge diference between a PvP twink and most leveling toons can exist, imposing a PvP playfield like BS on the playerbase is a stupid concession from the developers to a few Epeen driven players.

Imposing ?

Really ?

You can level from 1 to 220/30/70 and be decently equiped without stepping once inside BS.
Specially now that OFAB is yesdrop.

People choose to enter BS.
Because it's easier to enter, gain VP and then whine on forum about evul PvPers.

[Niradriel]

I said it before and I say it again. In a game where such an obscenelly huge diference between a PvP twink and most leveling toons can exist, imposing a PvP playfield like BS on the playerbase is a stupid concession from the developers to a few Epeen driven players. Of all the many big mistakes made by FC's developers in all these years these are the 2 most damaging. Allowing for such disparity to exist, let me correct myself, actively creating it and imposing it on the playerbase. And imposing a PvP playfield where the majority of the players have to endure being used as targets for the lols of a few self proclaimed "badasses".

Just shut the ****ing things down.

Last I checked, BS isn't the only way to get VP, and if you are getting gear for levelling, the prices on them arent that bad either, you could do alien missions, wich do give vp, not alot mind you.
But why would PvM'ers be complaining about a PvP battlestation, as if it is the only way to get the gear.
It can also be bought now.

As many people have said in this thread, how about trying to improve your character, push it to the limits, get better, and feel some sense of accomplishment, instead of joining some random arbitrary VP dispencer event where you have people you just killed spawn on you with no debuffs.

BS was never imposed on anyone, and was fine as it was, tho, having the choice of several spawnpoints in the homezone would be nice.
And closing access to the top part of spiral isn't half bad anyways.
Open the hallways again, it's peoples choice to chace down there or not.
And someone running down there is kept out of combat and useless for theyr team.

[Lusos101]

Give me all the bull you want. The facts are there. The battlestations are not a PvP playfield, they are a title farming playfield. If people who dont want and are not competitive at PvP go there it is for some reason. A very strong reason. That the people who farm hollow titles at their expense whine so strongly on the forums must have a reason too.

Its funny that the profession forums, LoA and LoR are full of posts about PvP toons worth billions and then the only reply people can post here is that lazies who dont have good PvP toons should work a "bit" on improving their toons.
Those comments are either made by ignorant idiots or by people who dont have any real arguments and use "ad hominem" arguments with liberality.

PvP and PvM toons are not the same. PvP and PvM gameplay have different rules and toons need diferent equipments, perks and IP distributions, a diference very noticeable especially at lower levels where xp is scarce.

The overwhelming majority of the equipment used by a twink can only be acquired by buying from other players or farmed by much higher level toons. And each one of those pieces costs usually many dozens of millions and often enough hundreds of millions and sometimes even billions. Same goes for some of the equipment used for twinking. Perfectly reasonable to expect a player to farm creds for months and then outlevel that gear in a few days.

Lets not talk about research, IP distribution or perks. Certainly some minor tweaks of no consequence, right?

As for BS not being mandatory. Nothing is mandatory in this game. Not even playing it. Maybe thats why the game is so overpopulated now. There are so many exciting features in this awsome game that any new player who tries it feels compeled to stay. The awsome crapiness of gear a new player has access compared to the mundane overpoweredness of equipments available to those with billions of creds or farming mains. The awsome leveling possibilities for those without cash to buy 50 levels at 3/mil a level. Yes the developers of this game should go to jail or something for making this game so addictive for so many players. Reellee.

[Lazy]

Perfectly reasonable to expect a player to farm creds for months and then outlevel that gear in a few days.

i think you missed the point of a twink...


EDIT:

if i wasn;t lazy i'd throw together an s10 equip for you that costs under 100m. everything in this equip is either rollable or easily farmable by the 150 toon (aside from a couple quests that may need outside help). once said twink is made it'll cost another 500~m (which the twink will be earning for himself in s10) to make him able to solo s10 bosses which then allows you to sell and/or make 225+ ai armor. a twink doesn't have to be expensive. it has to fulfill a role.

and yeah, you're right. pvp and pvm twinking are entirely different. that's why most people have separate toons for pvp and pvm.

[Cyberleet]

FC should focus on player-experience and how we can enjoy the game, our profession repetoir as we play.

A leveling agent have a temporary nano-repetoir of thousands diferent items as they level up, let players have it

In a game where such an obscenelly huge diference between a PvP twink and most leveling toons can exist, imposing a PvP playfield like BS on the playerbase is a stupid concession from the developers to a few Epeen driven players.

Solution:

Give us team-dailies with gigantic lootable, profession-nanopacks/buff armor etc and use dreadlochs (with dynamic level of course!) as bossfights that drops lotsa penutlimate and pvp-phatz.

That should level the playfield I think

See, some players don't like cause they wanna preserve their own perception of greatness, epeen.

[sultryvoltron]

if i wasn;t lazy i'd throw together an s10 equip for you that costs under 100m. everything in this equip is either rollable or easily farmable by the 150 toon (aside from a couple quests that may need outside help). once said twink is made it'll cost another 500~m (which the twink will be earning for himself in s10) to make him able to solo s10 bosses which then allows you to sell and/or make 225+ ai armor. a twink doesn't have to be expensive. it has to fulfill a role.

My Crat, lol.

Although on a few things I went above and beyond, like my eye symb which lets me assemble bosses.

[Lusos101]

i think you missed the point of a twink...


EDIT:

if i wasn;t lazy i'd throw together an s10 equip for you that costs under 100m. everything in this equip is either rollable or easily farmable by the 150 toon (aside from a couple quests that may need outside help). once said twink is made it'll cost another 500~m (which the twink will be earning for himself in s10) to make him able to solo s10 bosses which then allows you to sell and/or make 225+ ai armor. a twink doesn't have to be expensive. it has to fulfill a role.

and yeah, you're right. pvp and pvm twinking are entirely different. that's why most people have separate toons for pvp and pvm.

Pitty you iz laizee.

And you missed my point. Im not against twinking. Let me tell you a totally fictitious story without any RL comparison.

In a faraway galaxy, down the road and around the next corner, in a time when animals could talk and people used lazors to cut their bread, there was a guy that made games. This is the distant future where game development could be done by one person because they had mind reading computers that could translate the thoughts into code and stuff.

This guy made an RPGMMO game, a very simple game because people in the future are all lazy and stupid and the human species is constantly degenerating. At least thats what my granpa sais, always talking about the good old days.

In this simple game he had several different playfields in succession, people would level a toon in one and then progress to the next one etc. He also had equipment that could be gathered by each toon and would improve the abilities of each toon ofc. This equipment consisted of 3 Tiers. The first tier was very easy to find but it wasnt very good. The 2nd tier was much better but much harder to find. And finally there was a 3rd tier equipment that was very rare but awsomelly good. So what would happen in the beginning of the game was that each toon leveling through the playfield would easily get a full set of the first tier armor and a few pieces of the second tier. Only a few lucky toons would be able to acquire an occasional piece of the third tier equipment.

But, as it always does, time passes and things happen. And what did happen was that after a few years some players where able to accumulate a lot of 2nd tier equipment and at least some pieces of the 3rd tier, their toons could from the start of the playfield have much better toons then people who where playing for the first time. These people with the much better toons begun to complain that the game was not challenging anymore and would quit if the developer of the game didnt make it more challenging.

Being a very smart person, for his time, the developer thought on how he could make the game more challenging for the older players while keeping the newer players able to compete with the older players, to allow him to keep both a good fraction of the older players and some new players interested in the game too.

The solution was very simple. Simple people ofc think of simple solutions. To keep the older players playing he created a new tier of equipment. Tier 4 was just better enough then tier 3 to make it worth the trouble of finding it and keep older players interested. For new players to not fall so much behind he made a few adjustments to the lower level tiers. He simply removed Tier 1 and made Tier 2 as common as tier 1 had been and made the old tier 3 the new tier 2. This way the difference between new and old players would not grow too much and everybody would be kept playing. Old players constantly trying to improve their toons and new players always catching up on older players.

As you can see my old granpa was right. People in the future where very stoopeed indeed. But at least he made PvP at least mildly amuzing for most palyers.

[Lazy]

that's a very interesting, well written and largely irrelevant story.

[Wrangeline]

Solution:

Give us team-dailies with gigantic lootable, profession-nanopacks/buff armor etc and use dreadlochs (with dynamic level of course!) as bossfights that drops lotsa penutlimate and pvp-phatz.

That should level the playfield I think

See, some players don't like cause they wanna preserve their own perception of greatness, epeen.

I don't like your suggestion, not because it affects my perception of greatness but because it would destroy AO. A lot of people log on these days to do dailies and then log off again. We hardly ever see those people any more. Suggesting to get most gear you would ever need from dailies as well is going to make things a lot worse.

[Lusos101]

... and largely irrelevant story.

That is the dramatically sad part.

[Niradriel]

To those claiming that new players cant catch up go the gear level of older players.

Getting to lvl 150, takes a couple of days.
Farming the first few mobs inside of s10 and selling the relays for a few days, this gets you ai levels too.
Congratulations, you can now afford the same gear as the old players.

[Lazy]

To those claiming that new players cant catch up go the gear level of older players.

Getting to lvl 150, takes a couple of days.
Farming the first few mobs inside of s10 and selling the relays for a few days, this gets you ai levels too.
Congratulations, you can now afford the same gear as the old players.

this. with the advent of s10 any scrub in a medsuit can become a baller in a couple weeks.

[Lusos101]

With so much "easiness" in this game I wonder why almost nobody wants to play it. Probably because everybody in the whole world is "lazy". Except ofc you and a few others like you who actually are not new players.

[Lazy]

so just because you don't wanna improve your toon that means that everyone else should be medsuit gimps to even out the playing field? get real dude. what makes this game so unique is the sheer magnitude of player customization that can be done. yes there's grind involved. yes it's arduous long boring and repetitive. but the end result is SO worth it. how bout instead of whining on the forums about the power gap between a veteran and a new player you go out and actually play the game? although i guess pretty soon an endgame 220/30/70 full ai armor toon will be buyable from the "ingame" store ^_= so you won't really have to.

[Lusos101]

Just because YOU dont know anything about my toons you can use the same old cheap "ad hominem" insults. Im sure im the one who needs a reality check. FC will keep the AO servers working forever so even if you are the only person still playing the game it doesnt matter, you can always multilog your many toons and do any playfield you want by yourself and make trillions of creds and own all the IGoCs in game, how hawt is that?

Im done, enjoy your awsome and challenging battlestations forever.

[Lazy]

you seem to have made the mistake in thinking i care about your toons. or about you. im merely pointing out that your statement "newbies have no chance of catching up to the vets" is entirely false because of s10 and other low-effort high-reward ways of making currency with which to equip toons.

[Wrangeline]

Lusos101, please stop using the term "ad hominem" so much
You are producing at least as many "ad hominem" arguments/insults as anyone else here atm (imo).

There is a big difference between super-twinks and non-twinks. No one is arguing that fact. Some are suggesting that it's not as impossible for newer players to become "twinked" within a reasonable amount of time as it seems.

Personally, I agree with all of you on some level

1. Yes, the difference is huge between a new player with little creds and his leveling character and a rich twink built for specific tasks.

2. Yes, I think it's too much work involved for newer players to become equal (as in, able to have reasonable fun) with older twinked players. This is hard to avoid since the game is sooo old. If you have any specific suggestions on how to fix this problem then you should suggest them.

3. Yes, I think it's possible for new players to become twinked and viable within a reasonable amount of time but I also think that this requires the player to do a lot of non-fun things for too long and these players are forced to miss out on a lot of nice-smelling roses along the way in order to achieve their goal. I agree that this is a detriment to the game.

4. Yes, becoming powerful in a game like AO, where there's so much character customization and twinking possible, is quite simply going to take a lot of work. The question is how much work is involved, if this amount of work is too much or not and if it's too much, what can be done about it at this stage and how much should be done so that the "flavour" of AO isn't lost in the process. I mean, it's possible to fix anything but how extreme should we be with those fixes?

Basically, I'm more interested in hearing suggestions at this point because every "fault" that AO has, has been pointed out hundreds of times each by now, from all angles. We don't all agree on what's "faults" and what isn't. Arguing about it wont fix anything really as no one here can convince anyone else that they are wrong (because they generally aren't since it's a matter of personal taste). That just wont happen. Sometimes though, good suggestions can make people willing to listen and think a bit outside their own box.

[Gatester]

If you actually use your brain, the new style of BS is far easier for PVMers to win than it previously was. Considering that most pvp is won due to player skill or profession match-ups and not how expensive their setup is, the likely reason so many people are complaining is probably the same reason they consistently lose in pvp.

How can people expect FC to balance an encounter which is entirely dependant upon the individual and unique abilities of the participants on both sides? The closest thing to make up for the gap in player capability is a handicap system based upon past performances in BS or pvp in general. Is this really something we want in AO, because I thought AO was a game that was special because it rewarded player skill and not a lack-there-of.